What is the Canon?

Ariston

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For most of my life as a Christian, I have accepted the Protestant Bible of the 66 books (39/27) as inspired scripture. However, over the last ten years, I have been deeply interested in ecclesiastical history and in particular, the Patristic age, which is generally understood as the period of between c. 100-451, or from the end of the Apostolic Age until the Council of Chalcedon.

The development of the Canon of Scripture has been of particular importance to me since the Bible has been the primary source for the development of Christian Theology in both Eastern and Western Christianity, though of course not solely as it is within much Protestant thought.

What I am presently considering is the proper place for the deuterocanonical books which slightly vary between the Old Testament section of the Orthodox and Roman Catholic Bibles for the development of doctrine and practice. It appears that the significance, or lack there of, among the churches is a rather complicated historical issue, and I would like to know your thoughts on why these works ought to be either excepted or neglected. Or as a third option, why these works might be deserving of a secondary status of importance as was the position of some early Reformers.

As far as I know, the Protestant rejection of these works tends to hinge on two major considerations. The first is that when Judaism eventually established a definitive canon, the deuterocanonical books were not regarded as Scripture. Consequently, early discrete Protestant sects were uncomfortable with the acceptance of these works what they would subsequently classify as Apocraphal. This argument seems fallacious since it requires adopting the authoritative decree of a relatively late (in relation to the Apostolic Age) emerging consensus eventually within Judaism. The notion of a determined canon of the Hebrew scriptures established at the once suggested but falsified Council of Jamnia in the late first century supports this contention.

The other reason generally offered by Protestants who reject the deuterocanonical works is grounded in what appears to be the Hebrew canon of known to Christ, the Christians who wrote during the Apostolic Age, and The Apostolic Fathers who wrote from the late first century to roughly the middle of the second century. Upon discerning through these writings what the earliest Church believed to be authoritative inspired scripture, we in fact find very few allusions to the deuterocanonical works, and no explicit allusions to their authority (such as there being the words, "as it is written" proceeding the quotation). It appears that these books eventually became widely accepted by the Church largely due to their inclusion in the standard Greek Bible of the Ante-Nicene Period, the Septuagint, and hence by the third century they became regularly sourced for theological development.

By the end of the forth century, the first two councils in the West to recognize the 27 books of the New Testament, The Synod of Hippo and The Synod of Carthage (and possibly an earlier Synod of Rome), accepted the deuterocanonical books as found today in the Roman Catholic Canon of Scripture. These works held this status without controversy among Christians for over a thousand years and were reaffirmed by the Council of Trent in the 16th century in response to either hesitation or rejection to include these works as Scripture by some of the Protestant church's.

This is indeed a complex issue which is only superficially considered here. Presently I am inclined to regard the deuterocanonical works as scripture. What do you think and why?
 
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Archie the Preacher

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From the interviews I've had with several Rabbis, the 'Apocrypha' has never been considered 'Holy Writ'. However, they are not considered 'evil' or 'false' and are even suggested for their own - non-Scriptural - value. Obviously you see where I'm going with that.

Allow me this question: What essential truth or doctrine regarding Almighty God or human relationship with Almighty God that is not found in other 'recognized' books?

I've read through them - not often and not 'studiously' and I don't remember anything remarkable found in those works alone. I think I have a Bible with Apocrypha included in my library. (I know I had one at one time.) I didn't read those works much, but I never suspected evil spirits seeping out and attacking me when I slept, either.

In short, I don't see them as Scripture, but if you do, I don't think it's an issue between us. I don't see them stealing your soul away from Jesus.
 
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Ariston

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From the interviews I've had with several Rabbis, the 'Apocrypha' has never been considered 'Holy Writ'. However, they are not considered 'evil' or 'false' and are even suggested for their own - non-Scriptural - value. Obviously you see where I'm going with that.

Allow me this question: What essential truth or doctrine regarding Almighty God or human relationship with Almighty God that is not found in other 'recognized' books?

I've read through them - not often and not 'studiously' and I don't remember anything remarkable found in those works alone. I think I have a Bible with Apocrypha included in my library. (I know I had one at one time.) I didn't read those works much, but I never suspected evil spirits seeping out and attacking me when I slept, either.

In short, I don't see them as Scripture, but if you do, I don't think it's an issue between us. I don't see them stealing your soul away from Jesus.

Thank you for your considerations. I am working through the collection presently for the first time and so any judgment that I could presently make regarding your question would be capricious and precarious. Personally and presently I find them to be edifying and beneficial for providing a clearer backdrop for appreciating the broader context in which the New Testament documents can be understood.
 
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Vince53

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Prayer for the dead is taught in 1 Maccabees, and that is why the Catholic Church includes the Apocryphal, However, in the context, they were talking about praying for Jews who had been killed in battle while wearing pagan luck charms. They would pray that these Jews would not lose a reward at the Resurrection. Purgatory is not referred to, but I wasn't told that part in Catholic school.
 
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WisdomTree

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The biblical canon is definitely an interesting topic. I made this chart (here) a few years ago while I was still in university and pondering about faith and its relation to Church history. It's probably in need of a revision, but I made it because I couldn't find a nice visual reference which could be viewed in one document instead of trying to find various sources.
 
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Archie the Preacher

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Ariston said:
Thank you for your considerations. I am working through the collection presently for the first time and so any judgment that I could presently make regarding your question would be capricious and precarious.
I commend your caution.
Ariston said:
Personally and presently I find them to be edifying and beneficial for providing a clearer backdrop for appreciating the broader context in which the New Testament documents can be understood.
As mentioned, the Jewish scholars thought them suitable for reading and learning much as you relate. Perhaps I should read them again. I don't think they can hurt one's spiritual life or development.
 
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Si_monfaith

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For most of my life as a Christian, I have accepted the Protestant Bible of the 66 books (39/27) as inspired scripture. However, over the last ten years, I have been deeply interested in ecclesiastical history and in particular, the Patristic age, which is generally understood as the period of between c. 100-451, or from the end of the Apostolic Age until the Council of Chalcedon.

The development of the Canon of Scripture has been of particular importance to me since the Bible has been the primary source for the development of Christian Theology in both Eastern and Western Christianity, though of course not solely as it is within much Protestant thought.

What I am presently considering is the proper place for the deuterocanonical books which slightly vary between the Old Testament section of the Orthodox and Roman Catholic Bibles for the development of doctrine and practice. It appears that the significance, or lack there of, among the churches is a rather complicated historical issue, and I would like to know your thoughts on why these works ought to be either excepted or neglected. Or as a third option, why these works might be deserving of a secondary status of importance as was the position of some early Reformers.

As far as I know, the Protestant rejection of these works tends to hinge on two major considerations. The first is that when Judaism eventually established a definitive canon, the deuterocanonical books were not regarded as Scripture. Consequently, early discrete Protestant sects were uncomfortable with the acceptance of these works what they would subsequently classify as Apocraphal. This argument seems fallacious since it requires adopting the authoritative decree of a relatively late (in relation to the Apostolic Age) emerging consensus eventually within Judaism. The notion of a determined canon of the Hebrew scriptures established at the once suggested but falsified Council of Jamnia in the late first century supports this contention.

The other reason generally offered by Protestants who reject the deuterocanonical works is grounded in what appears to be the Hebrew canon of known to Christ, the Christians who wrote during the Apostolic Age, and The Apostolic Fathers who wrote from the late first century to roughly the middle of the second century. Upon discerning through these writings what the earliest Church believed to be authoritative inspired scripture, we in fact find very few allusions to the deuterocanonical works, and no explicit allusions to their authority (such as there being the words, "as it is written" proceeding the quotation). It appears that these books eventually became widely accepted by the Church largely due to their inclusion in the standard Greek Bible of the Ante-Nicene Period, the Septuagint, and hence by the third century they became regularly sourced for theological development.

By the end of the forth century, the first two councils in the West to recognize the 27 books of the New Testament, The Synod of Hippo and The Synod of Carthage (and possibly an earlier Synod of Rome), accepted the deuterocanonical books as found today in the Roman Catholic Canon of Scripture. These works held this status without controversy among Christians for over a thousand years and were reaffirmed by the Council of Trent in the 16th century in response to either hesitation or rejection to include these works as Scripture by some of the Protestant church's.

This is indeed a complex issue which is only superficially considered here. Presently I am inclined to regard the deuterocanonical works as scripture. What do you think and why?

Is Bible canonization supported by the books in the Bible?

Does Bible canonization promise knowledge of truth and thus deflect away the trust in God?
 
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Neal of Zebulun

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I don't think it's fair to ask "what is contained in the Apocrypha that is not contained in the 66 books as regards to understanding Yahweh, Christ, Salvation, faith, etc.?"

Because it presumes that all the 66 books themselves are needed to understand.

Is it necessary that a Christian read all 66 books in order to understand? I don't think so. Even if a Christian reads all the books, it still doesn't mean they will understand if Yahweh doesn't want them to.

To be honest, if a Christian is not given the eyes to see, they will find that the 66 books contradict each other.

I will affirm that I have found what at first sight appeared to be contradictions in the 66 books, but with study, prayer, faith, love and Yahweh's help, He enlightened me.

I take the same approach with the Apocrypha. If I find something that truly cannot be reconciled then surely it's not Scripture. (John 10:35)

But if there are no contradictions, why wouldn't it be Scripture? Because man said it isn't?

There is nowhere I'm aware of in Scripture that sets a limit on how many books are Scriptural.

Take it to an extreme: There are still people who think there's only 39 books, if you catch my meaning.
 
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Bob Crowley

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I'm a Catholic, and ex-Protestant. When I became Catholic I hadn't read any of the "Deutero-Canonical / Apocraphyl" books (to avoid getting into a bun-fight about the correct terminology), and I still haven't read any of the additional books included the Orthodox Bible.

For interest's sake the Catholic versions are Tobit, Judith, some additions to Esther, Wisdom, Sirach, Baruch, some additions to Daniel, and 1 & 2 Maccabees. Apart from the additions to other OT Biblical books, there are seven books in their own right.

From Wikipedia (modified) -
The Eastern Orthodox canon includes the deuterocanonical books listed above, plus 3 Maccabees and 1 Esdras, while Baruch is divided from the Epistle of Jeremiah, making a total of 49 Old Testament books in contrast with the Protestant 39-book OT canon.

Like the Roman Catholic deutero-canonical books, these texts are integrated with the rest of the Old Testament, not printed in a separate section.

Other texts printed in Orthodox Bibles are considered of some value (like the additional Psalm 151 and the Prayer of Manasseh, or are included as an appendix (like the Greek 4 Maccabees and the the Slavonic 2 Esdras).

I've now read all the Catholic deutero-Canonical books. I can hardly claim my personal sense as being authorative, but as I read them, I sort of had this feeling they weren't as "spiritual" as the usual 39 Protestant OT books (mind you I don't feel very spiritual going through the genealogy lists in Leviticus either - I can hardly think of anything more boring than reading about the family lines of a bunch of ancient Semitic tribes).

Tobit for example strikes me as a Jewish yarn, complete with dodgy medical practices (smearing fish gall on cataracts) and an angel Raphael who does everything but cook breakfast. I also suspect it was the book the cynical Sadducees were referring to when they challenged Christ about the woman who'd been married seven times to seven brothers, but whose husbands all kicked the bucket before they could consummate the marriage. I think they thought "We'll challenge Him with this rubbish, and see how He tries to get out of this one." But all Christ did was point to their lack of faith in God's power.

The Maccabees books I found depressing. They were full of violence, no doubt reflective of the times they lived in. Wisdom I found to be an alternate version of Proverbs. If you're into ancient Wisdom Literature, then I suppose you might find it interesting.

The real question is "Who had or has the authority to determine what is Scripture?" The Jewish Rabbis? The Catholic Magisterium? The Orthodox Councils? The Protestant Reformers?

What is interesting is that all 3 major church groups accept the same New Testament canon, although there are a couple of other smaller church groups which include some additional books, or have reservations about Revelation.

So the bunfight mainly seems to be about which OT books should have been included and why.

Personally I don't really care. I'm more interested in the question of authority, since that is what will determine a book's validity or not.

As a Catholic, I'll leave it with the Magisterium. It sure wasn't me.
 
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