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Featured What is the bottomless pit referring to in Rev 20?

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by DavidPT, Nov 25, 2018.

  1. DavidPT

    DavidPT Well-Known Member

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    Revelation 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
    2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
    3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
    Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,


    As to the bottomless pit.


    One can be cast into it---And cast him into the bottomless pit

    One can be shut up in it and a seal set upon them---and shut him up, and set a seal upon him

    It is a prison---shall be loosed out of his prison


    In verse 2 and 3 the text indicates---And he laid hold on the dragon---And cast him into. How should we interpret that? Does this angel take hold of satan in a physical manner, then cast him, also in a physical manner, into a place of some kind?

    A typical argument by non Premils would be the following. satan is a spirit being, therefore, how can he literally be confined somewhere, such as a place as the bottomless pit, assuming that is a place?

    I might argue in return, the following.

    Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

    Here we see this same satan is cast into somewhere as well, this time the lake of fire. Since satan is a spirit being, as non Premils might argue, shouldn't the same argument apply here as well? If the bottomless pit can't be a literal place that can hold satan, the fact he is a spirit being, the same should be true of Revelation 20:10. The LOF shouldn't be able to keep him confined either. But who would argue that, in regards to Revelation 20:10? The text indicates he shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever in the LOF. Can't fulfill that if the LOF can't keep satan confined the fact he is a spirit being.

    Why then can the LOF be a place that keeps satan confined, regardless that he is a spirit being, but that the bottomless pit can't be a place that keeps satan confined, the fact he is a spirit being? Does anyone besides me see how inconsistent this is when one is reasoning these things in this manner? Shouldn't be a surprise though, since these very same ones are also inconsistent with their interpretation of the 2 resurrections mentioned in Revelation 20. The first resurrection they have meaning spiritual, while the 2nd resurrection they have meaning literal.
     
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  2. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    If you look at what the symbols represent instead of looking for the symbols to appear, it makes sense.
     
  3. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

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    bottomless pit = the Abyss - We are told that for the next 1,000 years (sometimes referred to as the millennium) the devil and his angels will be confined to the "abyss," a place where demonic beings are isolated by Jesus (Luke 8:31). The word "abyss" in our English Bibles is a translation of the Greek word "abussos." In the Greek version of the Old Testament, this word appears in Genesis 1:2, which says that prior to creation, the world was "formless and empty, and darkness was over the surface old the deep [abussos]."

    All the saved are taken to heaven (1st resurrection) at Jesus 2nd coming and are with Him there for the 1,000 years and onward.

    The Return of the Lord

    13Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope. 14For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.

    15By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. 17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.

    18Therefore encourage one another with these words.

    The unsaved living at the time are destroyed at that time. That leaves all the unsaved dead and Satan and he has nobody to tempt (bounded/chained) for the 1,000 years.

    Jeremiah 4:23-26

    I beheld, and indeed the fruitful land was a wilderness, And all its cities were broken down At the presence of the LORD, By His fierce anger.

    After the 1,000 years .... the 2nd resurrection happens (resurrection of all the unsaved).

    Battle of Armageddon occurs. (the raised unsaved dead, Satan and his minions attack the city that has descended from heaven.

    Then the Great White Thorne judgement happens and God destroys the earth by fire and everything in/on it.

    God then makes everything new.

    Things happen in-between these events, but this is the basics of it.

    God Bless.
     
  4. DavidPT

    DavidPT Well-Known Member

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    Help me out here then. What do the symbols represent, in regards to the binding of satan? Point out all of the symbols in Revelation 20:1-3 then show what they represent. Even though I'm currently Premil, there's always the chance I might be more open minded about these things than you might be giving me credit for.

    For example. To be fair since I indicated in the OP that non Premils are not being consistent here, and then preceded to show why, that should apply to Premils as well. If a Premil takes the BP to be a literal place that confines satan, then to be consistent, that same one needs to take the chain literally as well since this is one of the things used to bind satan. Most Premils though, including me, typically don't take the chain to be a literal one.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2018
  5. DavidPT

    DavidPT Well-Known Member

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    Are you perhaps an Adventist? This sounds somewhat like one of their teachings. I don't agree that anyone goes to heaven for the thousand years. I see no reason to conclude that.
     
  6. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

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    I am not a member of any organized church. I study the bible. Some of my beliefs may or may not fall within beliefs of different "theologies" out there. I have looked at some of them ... but ... hey ... there's like 3,000 denominations ... so better to just study the bible itself ;o)

    "I see no reason to conclude that" - so what do you conclude?

    God Bless.
     
  7. DavidPT

    DavidPT Well-Known Member

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    I was only curious as to whether or not you were an Adventist, not that it mattered even if you were, since this sounded somewhat like one of their teachings. There are numerous things, though I myslf am not an Adventist, that I agree with them on. I just don't agree with the conclusion than anyone goes to heaven for the thousand years. Some of the things you mentioned in your post though, you and I would be on the same page about. Such as the first paragraph in that post.


    You then brought up Jeremiah 4:23-26 and seem to be placing it in the next age after the thousand years, plus you seem to be doing the same with the battle of Armegeddon. I would think both of those things are fulfilled in this present age instead.

    As to what I conclude, I conclude when Christ returns, His destination is the earth for forever, and not that He returns to heaven yet again. There are only two comings. One of them has already occured, the 2nd one is yet to occur. But if He goes back to heaven after the 2nd coming, then returns a thousand years later, that adds up to 3 comings not 2.
     
  8. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    A sketch would be;

    The angel = Greek for messenger

    the chain = the message (gospel); The gospel sent to the whole world.

    the 1000 years = Satan bound from deceiving the elect. The saints rule over him. the 1000 years end = Satan loosed.

    Note the 1000 years are not the kingdom. Satan attacks the kingdom when they end and he is loosed.

    Satan loosed = the Post Christian era (we now live in = immanent return of Christ) the gospel message falls on deaf ears, the world assails the Church from all quarters ushering in the end.
     
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  9. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

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    I conclude when Christ returns, His destination is the earth for forever, and not that He returns to heaven yet again.
    that adds up to 3 comings not 2.

    Well ... no (2) .... because at his 2nd coming, notice He doesn't touch the ground .... all the saved are caught up and meet Him in the air (1st resurrection) .... as stated ... for the 1,000 years ..... the next time He comes is the GWT judgement (2nd resurrection). His birth in the bible he is man and God .... and describes it as such ... He was born as such walked the earth etc. to save (he had not yet been glorified - man&God) ... not to judge, yet. The 2 times (1st & 2nd resurrection) He comes in glory and judgment(s) takes place (Fully God). He comes 2 times - fully God.

    He was glorified at His ascension

    1 Timothy 3:16

    And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up in glory,

    John 17:1

    Father, Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You…And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

    God Bless.
     
  10. BrotherDave

    BrotherDave Regular Member

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    So, here's what I'm thinking....The bottomless pit is referring to the wrath of God, or Hell. Hell and death are never full (Prov 27:20). The one who controls access to it has power of life or death. This is Christ. Christ was victorious over Satan at the cross and bound him in the sense that he could no longer interfere with the advancement of God’s word as he had before the cross (Luke 8:11,12). But the time comes when Christ allows (looses) Satan to roam freely as an angel of light, specifically in churches (2 Cor 11:13-15, II Thess 2:4) during the great tribulation, a time when God is preparing the world for judgment (1 Peter 4:17, Matt 7:22-23, 24:24).

    The bottom less pit (abussos in Greek) is also translated as “deep” (Luke 8:31,Ro 10:7). We know Ro 10:7 is referring to the time Christ paid the penalty of eternal damnation (hell) on behalf of those He came to save (Matt 12:40, EPh 4:8-9). So we see in Rev 20 Satan was cast into hell; which agrees with II Peter 2:4 and Jude 1:6 which are records of judgment already passed at the time Peter and Jude were writing. This is also the time Satan was cast out of heaven, being defeated by the blood of the Lamb (Rev 12:9,11)

    The binding of Satan prevented him from deceiving people like he had before the cross. Before the cross it seems very few were saved but 7 weeks after on the day of Pentecost 3,000 were saved. They came out from under the tyranny and deception of Satan. This has continued throughout the NT era

    The thousand years must be understood metaphorically. It is a period of time (not literal 1000 years) that has a fulfillment. Or a start and end date. It started at the cross and ends when Christ looses Satan a little season. This is the time of great tribulation as Satan is allowed to infiltrate churches, appearing to be an angel of light but bringing false gospels that lead many astray. Then finally the end comes and this creation and all sin is destroyed forever (2 Pe 3:10).

    As for the lake of fire, this refers to Gods never ending punishment on the unsaved. God is a consuming fire (Deut 4:24,9:3,Heb 12:29). When the unsaved die, that’s it. They never ever will live again. They are forgotten. This is a great tragedy as mankind was created in the image of God with eternal life. God provided us an example of His never ending or eternal fire with the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah (Jude 1:7). They experience eternal fire but it is not still physically burning today. They will never exist again.
     
  11. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Is Satan one of the angels who sinned?

    2Pe_2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
    (Written in the past tense, during the first century.)


    Jud_1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

    .
     
  12. DavidPT

    DavidPT Well-Known Member

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    Unless you somehow missed it, satan already sinned as of Genesis 3. God already pronounced jugment on him at the time.

    Assuming satan is among the angels meant in 2Pe_2:4, as you seem to propose, what about the following then?

    Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
    7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

    How can satan, a created being, be in two different places at the same time? If he has been cast down to hell with the angels that sinned, how is that he was able to still go to and fro in the earth, and walking up and down in it, at the same time?

    You might argue that being cast down to hell doesn't mean in a literal sense. But how do you know that for certain though, in the event you might argue that?
     
  13. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    The Lord God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob presented Himself to Moses both as a burning bush in the land of Midian, and later as smoke and fire on top of Mount Sinai.
    Why would you assume that Satan traveled to heaven in Job 1:6, instead of God being present here on earth?

    Do you think Satan is now in heaven with God, and Christ, and the souls of our dead Brothers and Sisters?

    Satan has been cast down to the earth as part of His punishment for rebelling against God.
    Do you think God allows the wicked to remain is His presence?


    The beginning of Revelation chapter 12 is a history lesson, which reveals this fact.

    Rev 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
    Rev 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
    Rev 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
    Rev 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
    Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
    Rev 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
    Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
    Rev 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
    Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.


    We know this part of the passage is past tense, because the birth and death of Christ is found in the passage.

    .
     
  14. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    That question brought to mind Job 33:22, where the original Hebrew word (shachath: H7845) translated as "the grave" can mean "the pit" (Job 33:28,30), as in the extremely-deep pit which is in hell/sheol (Isaiah 14:15, Psalms 30:3, Job 11:8). In the sides of this pit are the graves of the conscious souls of the unsaved dead (Isaiah 14:15,9-10, Ezekiel 32:21-23), who experience pain there (Psalms 116:3). This pit is in the "nether" (the lowermost, Hebrew: tachtiy, H8482) parts of the earth (Ezekiel 32:18-32, Psalms 63:9), and so it could reach down to the center of the earth (in the spiritual dimension). And it could continue past the center of the earth and continue on in a straight line up the other side of the earth almost to the surface, so that the pit is "bottomless" in that its lowest point is empty space at the center of the earth (in the spiritual dimension). Satan/Lucifer will be cast into this literal "bottomless pit" by an angel at Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:3, Isaiah 14:15,12).

    The Bottomless Pit may have a physical manifestation as a deep underground cavern. The top of this cavern could be deep under the city of Abadan (in Iran), just as the Bottomless Pit is under the angel Abaddon (Revelation 9:11). At one point during the first half of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, strange locust-like beings will swarm up from the Bottomless Pit to torment (but not kill) mankind with excruciating stings for five months (Revelation 9:2-10).

    The Bottomless Pit could have a downward-winding spiral pathway like that in the Guggenheim Museum in New York City. But instead of artworks displayed on the outer wall of the pathway, there could be the graves/prison cells (1 Peter 3:19) of the conscious souls/spirits of the unsaved dead.

    Maybe not physically, but still literally.

    That is, the binding of Satan by an angel in Revelation 20:1-3, at Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:3), will involve Satan being bound with a literal, spiritual chain; just as the Bottomless Pit, which at that time Satan will be cast down into and locked within, is a literal, spiritual place.
     
  15. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    Do you mean that the rapture will take Christians all the way into the third heaven (of 2 Corinthians 12:2b)? If so, note that nothing in the Bible requires that Christians will be raptured any higher than the clouds of the sky (the first heaven) to hold a meeting in the air with Jesus Christ at His future, Second Coming (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17). After that meeting, in which the Church will be judged by Jesus (Psalms 50:3-5, cf. Mark 13:27), and the obedient part of the Church will be married to Jesus (Revelation 19:7, Matthew 25:1-13), the obedient part of the Church will come back down from the sky (the first heaven) with Jesus (Revelation 19:15-21) to physically reign on the earth with Him for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29). After the 1,000 years and subsequent events (Revelation 20:7-15, Ezekiel chapters 38-39) the obedient part of the Church will then live on a New Earth, as in a new surface for the earth, with God the Father and Jesus in the literal city of New Jerusalem (Revelation chapters 21-22).

    -

    There are three literal heavens (2 Corinthians 12:2b). The first heaven is the sky, the atmosphere, in which the birds fly (Genesis 1:20b). The second heaven is outer space, where the sun, moon, and stars reside (Deuteronomy 4:19). Where God resides is the third heaven (2 Corinthians 12:2b, Revelation 4:1-2). And so it is beyond outer space, in the sense of it being in a higher (a fourth) spatial dimension. And it is a physical place. For Jesus Christ ascended there in His physical resurrection body (Acts 1:9-11, Luke 24:39). And the apostle Paul said that he could have visited there in his mortal, physical body (2 Corinthians 12:2). Also, Elijah and Enoch were taken up there in their mortal, physical bodies (2 Kings 2:11, Genesis 5:24, Hebrews 11:5). And God's future, Two Witnesses will be taken up there in their mortal, physical bodies (Revelation 11:11-12).

    In the third heaven there is currently a literal city, 1,500 miles cubed (Revelation 21:16), called New Jerusalem (Revelation 21:2), the heavenly Jerusalem (Hebrews 12:22), the Jerusalem which is above (Galatians 4:26), and God the Father's house (John 14:2, Revelation 21:2-3). In the future, God will create a New Earth (a new surface for the earth) and a New Heaven (a new first heaven/atmosphere for the earth) (Revelation 21:1). And then God will come down in New Jerusalem from the third heaven to live with Christians on the New Earth (Revelation 21:2-3, Revelation 3:12b). It is New Jerusalem which has the literal pearly gates and streets of gold (Revelation 21:21) which Christians ascribe to heaven. So what Christians think of as heaven, in the sense of living in bliss with God, will eventually be on the New Earth.

    Currently, the third heaven is where paradise is (2 Corinthians 12:2,4). And paradise is where obedient Christians go when they die (Luke 23:43,46). So obedient Christians go to the third heaven when they die. Also, paradise is where the literal tree of life is (Revelation 2:7). And the tree of life is in New Jerusalem (Revelation 22:2). So when obedient Christians go to paradise, they go to New Jerusalem.

    The earth's third heaven could be high above the north pole. Compare the connection between heaven and the north in Isaiah 14:13, KJV. Regarding what we today call "the northern lights", even though they can be explained by physics, they could still point to the location of the glory of the earth's third heaven. And Psalm 48:2's reference to the north could refer to the location of New Jerusalem in heaven.
     
  16. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    Note that Revelation 12:7-9 has not happened yet, for it is part of the things which must be hereafter (Revelation 4:1b).

    Just as what the apostle John saw in Revelation 4:2-11 are literal things in heaven, so what he saw in Revelation 12:7-9 is a literal, future, mid-tribulation war in heaven, between the archangel Michael and his angels on the one hand, and Satan and his angels on the other, resulting in Satan and his angels being defeated and cast down to the earth permanently (Revelation 12:8-9,12-13).

    Revelation 12:7-9 shows that Michael and his angels are more powerful than Satan and his angels. But this does not mean that Satan will not be able to deceive the non-Christian world (Revelation 12:9) into thinking that he and his angels (with the help of a united mankind) will be able to defeat YHWH and His army (Revelation 16:14, Revelation 19:19).

    Note that the "man child" is not Jesus Christ, for Revelation 12:5 is not about past things, but is part of the "things which must be hereafter" (Revelation 4:1b). Revelation chapters 11-14 show from four different angles what will happen right before the start, and during, the literal 3.5 years of the future Antichrist's worldwide reign (Revelation 11:2b-3, Revelation 12:6,14, Revelation 13:5-8, Revelation 14:9-13), which will be in the latter half of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24.

    Regarding Revelation 12:5 saying: "who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron": Along with Jesus Christ (Revelation 19:15, Psalms 2:9), the whole obedient Church will rule the nations with a rod of iron (Revelation 2:26-29) on the earth (Revelation 5:10) during the future Millennium (Revelation 20:4-6). Before the Millennium, during the future Tribulation, at its midpoint, the 144,000 male-virgins part of the Church will be caught up in their mortal bodies to the throne of God in heaven (Revelation 14:1,4-5, Textus Receptus) as the "man child" (Revelation 12:5-6), and as the firstfruits of the Church (Revelation 14:4), in the sense of its best part (cf. Numbers 18:12).
     
  17. DavidPT

    DavidPT Well-Known Member

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    Why in the world are you assuming I'm assuming things I may not even be assuming? Where did I even say satan presented himself in heaven in Job 1? I tend to think it was on the earth where they were presenting themselves to God. If he was cast to hell though, hell is not on the surface of the earth, it is a place that confines spirits. And if satan has been cast there, he can't at the same time be walking to fro on the surface of the earth, that being the point.

    satan is a created being. He can't do things that only God can do. Only God can be in more than one place at the same time. satan can't. Amil must think satan can do things such as God can do though, such as be in more than one place at the same time. After all, Amil has satan walking around like a roaring lion, seeking whom he might devour, and at the same time, have him bound a thousand years in the bottmless pit. If that is not having satan in more than one place at the same time, I don't know what is?
     
  18. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    Great point.

    Also, Amil ends up (inadvertently) logically requiring the error of full preterism (2 Timothy 2:18). For claiming that the Church's resurrection in Revelation 20:4-6 is already present requires that Jesus Christ's Second Coming has already happened. For the Church's resurrection in Revelation 20:4-6 will not happen until the Second Coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-54; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16). Also, Amil ends up (inadvertently) logically requiring the error of partial preterism. For regarding the resurrection of those beheaded by the future Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") during the future Tribulation, and their subsequent reigning on the earth with the returned Jesus for the full 1,000 years of the future Millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29), to say that this is already present would require that the Antichrist's literal, 3.5-year worldwide reign during the Tribulation (Revelation 13:4-18) has already happened.
     
  19. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I'm Amillennial and believe the first resurrection begins with the new birth and culminates in the resurrection of the body on the last day. This includes the heavenly interlude of the souls described in Revelation 20.
     
  20. DavidPT

    DavidPT Well-Known Member

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    Do you also believe satan can do things only God can do? Do you believe satan can be in multiple places at the same time? Isn't that exactly what Amil teaches?

    1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

    Revelation 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
    3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

    So which is it then? Is 1 Peter 5:8 currently true of satan? Or is Revelation 20:2-3 currently true of satan? Because if it's both, that clearly indicates satan must not be a created being after all, because only uncreated beings can be in multiple places at the same time. But if satan is a created being like most conclude, both passages above can't be true at the same time.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2018
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