What is the book of Revelation all about ?

[parousia70]

2 Cor.13:14 "May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all."

That does not provide you with proof for describing God to be a Trinity. Who and what is God?

Jesus said God is Spirit:

In.4:24 "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."

Paul wrote that God is Spirit:

12 Cor.3:17 "Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.18 And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate[a] the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit."

God is also Holy:

God, who is the Spirit, makes it clear that He is also Holy, in Lev.11:44-45; Lev.19:2; Ps.99:3; Ps.99:5; 1 Pet.1:15-16 and in Rev.4:8. Therefore there is no option to the fact that God is the HOLY SPIRIT.

According to the Scriptures, God is the Holy Spirit and Father:

[The term father, is the title of every man who produces children of his own].

God, who is the Holy Spirit became the Father of Jesus, as documented in Mt.1:20 and Lk.1:35.

Mt.1:20 "But after he had considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, "Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit."

Lk.1:35 "The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be calledb the Son of God."

See the following "Shocking Admissions:"
Shocking Admissions by Joel Hemphill

Let me know when you want more of the same!


Quasar92

Those are great scriptures supporting the concept of the triune Godhead.

Now, if you could please provide the same for you contention that the 7 Chirches represent 7church ages, we could put this to rest.

 

[parousia70]

I wonder if this is what Jesus meant when He gave His new commandment to love each other as He loved them.....

We can disagree, we can come to different conclusions but as being of the body of Christ we don't need to attack. Does the Bible teach that we listen to others ideas or suggestions or conclusions on if one comes of the spirit?
Test yes but how can you judge?
If they say Jesus Christ has come in the flesh.

It is true that understanding and accepting the correct eschatology has no bearing on salvation. Praise God.

Knowing that both of you believe this I can listen to both of you but I can see that there is no denying that looking at the churches today in America that they are neither hot nor cold.

Which has always been the case, no?
As it has always been the case that there are Churches in America that are on fire with the spirit.

But scripture is not America centric is it?

If I say I feel like you two hate each other it's based on your words to each other yet hate should not be apart of this site.

Well I can't vouch for how quasar feels about me I can assure you I have no hate in my heart for him. In fact I view my interactions with him as a great tool and very helpful in my being able to clarify my position to our readers when I can call his position into contrast. I'm grateful he's here.

My contention is with his point, namely that he claimed the seven churches in Revelation were given to be understood and interpreted as seven different church ages over the past 2000 years, and we're not seven literal first century congregations in Asia Minor that John was actually addressing his letters to. When I asked him where Scripture teaches such a thing, after many posts he finally admits it does not, and that he only learned it from the traditions of men.

That's fine for him, but I'm more of a "show me the scripture" kind of guy... if my being a stickler for scripture causes another Christian to hate me, then so be it. I can certainly live with that badge of honor.

 

[jgr]

We can disagree, we can come to different conclusions but as being of the body of Christ we don't need to attack. Does the Bible teach that we listen to others ideas or suggestions or conclusions on if one comes of the spirit?

We do not attack. These are not enemies (although I have been characterized as such by dispensationalists on other forums). They are still brothers and sisters in Christ.

But we do earnestly contend.

Jude 3 exhorts us to
"...earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints."

The doctrines of dispensational modernism do not represent the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

That is why we earnestly contend.

 

[drayanna]

The Seals are not passed. Everything passed Rev. 4 is FUTURE EVENTS. The Anti-Christ is basically all four horses. A White Horse represents Conquers, and always have. This he goes forth the CONQUER, the other horses represent what comes of his actions. The Martyrs under the Alter are these murdered by him.

OK I read that but but what makes you think that. There is nothing that tells us this.
Why would John cry to let the anti-christ out?
Why are horses refereed as the Holy Spirit in zechariah?
Did you read the examples in my post.
I said I am seeing that in dividing the word I am not seeing the anti-christ even remotely in the seals. I see him come in the trumpets but not seals. Conquering is what Jesus did and why he is shown as the one in the cloud to reap the first harvest with a gold crown.
But I gave verses and other areas as why I am thinking different than what you are saying. I too was taught and thought as you do but after extensive reading of my own I can tell you that as of yet these questions have not been answered.
Who said this was a description of the anti-christ first? And what was there reasonings?
But I am sorry right now I am down with a virus, and even writing this little had my head pounding.

 

[Revealing Times]

OK I read that but but what makes you think that. There is nothing that tells us this.
Why would John cry to let the anti-christ out?

The Judgments are on an unrepentant evil world. John didn't know what was in the Seals, they were o opened yet. He just knew they needed to be opened in order for Judgement to be brought forth.

Why are horses refereed as the Holy Spirit in zechariah?
Did you read the examples in my post.
I said I am seeing that in dividing the word I am not seeing the anti-christ even remotely in the seals. I see him come in the trumpets but not seals. Conquering is what Jesus did and why he is shown as the one in the cloud to reap the first harvest with a gold crown.

The Anti-Christ is loosed, then death and destruction follows.

 

[Douggg]

OK I read that but but what makes you think that. There is nothing that tells us this.
Why would John cry to let the anti-christ out?
Why are horses refereed as the Holy Spirit in zechariah?
Did you read the examples in my post.
I said I am seeing that in dividing the word I am not seeing the anti-christ even remotely in the seals. I see him come in the trumpets but not seals. Conquering is what Jesus did and why he is shown as the one in the cloud to reap the first harvest with a gold crown.
But I gave verses and other areas as why I am thinking different than what you are saying. I too was taught and thought as you do but after extensive reading of my own I can tell you that as of yet these questions have not been answered.
Who said this was a description of the anti-christ first? And what was there reasonings?
But I am sorry right now I am down with a virus, and even writing this little had my head pounding.

dayanna, the term Antichrist is not in Revelation. We can only identify the Antichrist by him having been given a crown - the rider on the white horse in Revelation 6. What that crown is that he will be anointed the King of Israel at the point the seven years of Daniel 9:27 begin.

Christ, greek for messiah, in it's Israel backdrop means King of Israel, anointed the King of israel. In Mark 15:32, Christ the King of Israel", this was common knowledge to them living back then. The "Anti" Christ will be someone that the Jews will embrace instead of and against Jesus the rightful King of Israel.

The overview of how Revelation is structured - the core chapters for the end times (6-19) are grouped according to either the full 7 year 70th week or the second half of the 70th week. I am 68 years old and have studied this material daily for 45 years... so I am just passing the information along.

We need to look at Chapter 6, to find the Antichrist.

In other Chapters, it is the same person, but during the second half of the 70th week, the person is no longer the Anticrhist, i.e. the King of israel, because the Jews will have rejected him as continuing as their king at that point.. For the second half of the 70th week, the person is called the beast in Revelation.

Chapters 1-3 Jesus tells the churches how to behave until he comes.

Chapters 4-5 John is caught up to heaven to be shown the end times

Chapter 6 is an overview of the 70th week of Daniel 9, start to finish.

Chapters 7-9 is what takes place during the second half of the 70th week.

Chapters 10-11 is the 70th week according to the little book John eats.

Chapter 12 is the 70th week relevant to Israel.

Chapters 13-14 is the second half of the 70th week, the great tribulation.

Chapters 15-16 is the second half of the 70th week, God's vials of wrath.

Chapters 17-18 is about Mystery Babylon, the beast, the seven kings and ten kings.

Chapter 19 is the glorious return of Jesus to complete the 70th week.

Chapter 20 is the 1000 year rule of Jesus upon this earth, and the final curtain for Satan.

Chapters 21-22 is about eternity, our place in the new heaven and new earth

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[BABerean2]

It is true that understanding and accepting the correct eschatology has no bearing on salvation.

This is most certainly true for us.

However, we have done a pitiful job of sharing the Gospel with modern Jews.
Why ? Because many modern Christians say what John the Baptist told his own people they were not to say.

How many times have we heard Christians say? "They are Abraham's seed."

or... "The Jews are still God's chosen people."

Mat 3:9　 and do not think to say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father.' For I say to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones.　


No matter what the truth is about genealogy, each year thousands of modern people who call themselves Jews die without Christ.

When talking to a local Baptist pastor about the salvation of modern Jews he told me he thought they were still under the "Old Dispensation".
He must have cut Hebrews 8:13 out of his Bible.

John Nelson Darby's Two Peoples of God doctrine is at least partially responsible for this.

.

 

[drayanna]

The Judgments are on an unrepentant evil world. John didn't know what was in the Seals, they were o opened yet. He just knew they needed to be opened in order for Judgement to be brought forth.


The Anti-Christ is loosed, then death and destruction follows.

The Judgement!
Yes: but you did not read my first post. I don't see the seals as judgement. If you look as the trumpets and vials you will find one is the wrath of the Lamb and the other the wrath of God.

The seals however does not have a wrath. No judgement. The 6th seal is the key to the this whole thing.

If you don't read and look at what I gave to show this you can't just say this isn't so without showing me by dividing the Word.

The first seal was opened after Jesus died on the cross. When John was seeing this was not a judgement but a book that no one was worthy to open it but....wait here comes one worthy of the tribe David...... I then show you about Peter writings about what was happening on the streets. ...the Holy Spirit released and the writings of David of the right hand of God. The book taken by Jesus from the right hand of God. Then opened. David would not call the anti-christ judgement his redemption instead david saw by the holy ghost of the right hand of God being his resting place and his forgiveness of his iniquities.

Your assumption that John didn't know is not enough to convince me. John cried for a reason. To say he cried because he didn't know is like saying Jesus cried for no reason.
Revelation shows what John was seeing. It give what is was and will be.
Time line......was, is, will be....
On this concept John saw the churches then was taken to see the throne of God. If John saw Jesus when He was taken to heaven then I would agree that this resembles the catching up.....but He sees God the Father with 24 elders and Four beast with a book on his hands.
There is no one else described. Where is Jesus. As our Savior He would be our first to see when Jesus comes for the Body of Christ. Where are we while John cries? Are we beside him crying too? Until one says wait here comes one worthy?
No, my friend it's a very well thought out idea. But again John would have seen Jesus right away if Jesus was there. So John was seeing what was. Was before the victory of Jesus conquering death sinless and as the Lamb. That is the big part that proves this....the fact that Jesus is seen as the Lamb slain. That is important. .....
This is why John was crying.....he thought no one was found worthy to open on earth or in heaven. Read that again. No one found ....Found up until that moment that means where John was, was before Jesus is worthy. He could not rapture (catch up) His Bride until He was found worthy. This book was not judgments this book was the seals that is of Jesus and what He will give to mankind. Salvation through the Holy Spirit. Which are described in Zachariah as horses. The crown is given as a victory. The bow a promise and the white as a robe in the 5th seal of purity. To conquer what is known as the falling away.

 

[Neogaia777]

It's about the war within God and man...

 

[drayanna]

This is most certainly true for us.

However, we have done a pitiful job of sharing the Gospel with modern Jews.
Why ? Because many modern Christians say what John the Baptist told his own people they were not to say.

How many times have we heard Christians say? "They are Abraham's seed."

or... "The Jews are still God's chosen people."

Mat 3:9　 and do not think to say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father.' For I say to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones.　


No matter what the truth is about genealogy, each year thousands of modern people who call themselves Jews die without Christ.

When talking to a local Baptist pastor about the salvation of modern Jews he told me he thought they were still under the "Old Dispensation".
He must have cut Hebrews 8:13 out of his Bible.

John Nelson Darby's Two Peoples of God doctrine is at least partially responsible for this.

.

I have never considered myself of Abraham's seed.
I don't have a clue what seed I come from but I do know I am of the foundations of the Lamb.
As for the Jewish people, I have seen conversations between Christians and Jewish and thought that both sides are not understanding each other. This is important in my view for there is something to be said for letting the Holy Spirit lead. Sometimes we forget as Christians that the beginning apostles were Jewish. When we see this we then realize that the gospel is to be told to all people's born after Jesus came. After Jesus came to earth that is all we are to do.. tell the gospel to those who don't know Jesus rather Jewish or etc...
If some Jewish people who talked to Jesus in 30 a.d. could not see so Jesus was right in front of them I don't see how we today can convince them. I pray for them. And I know Paul was convicted in a special way then there is hope for the Jewish community today. I don't push.
But for here with other Christian's I do want to discuss their views on Revelation because after some very intense study in think the Holy Spirit is trying to open or reveal this book to Christians today. At least I know He has for me

 

[Neogaia777]

It's about the war within God and man...

Also, The fall and restoration of man... the redemption of man... Which is Christ or God...

God Bless!