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Featured What is the book of Revelation all about ?

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Quasar92, Apr 21, 2017.

  1. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The book of Revelation is in fact, the Revelation of Jesus Christ. It is as textually documented, a book of prophecy, which is not all apocalyptic by any means. In which the words of Jesus were: "Write, therefore what you have seen, what is now and what will take place later," according to Rev.1:19.

    Following the introductory preface for the book in Rev.1, the first part pertains to the one body of Christ, divided into seven church characteristics over the entire church age, as documented in Rev.2 and 3.

    The second part consists of personages and conditions in heaven and the exclusive all time personage worthy and capable of opening the seven seal prolog of the wrath of God, in the Lamb, Jesus Christ, recorded in Rev.4 through 6.

    The third part begins with the seventh seal which contains the seven trumpet judgements, that come from the seventh seal, followed closely by the seven bowl/vial judgments of God. His wrath upon mankind as well as the earth itself, in fulfilling the prophecies in Dan.9:27; Mt.24; Mk. 13 and Lk.21. Together with His means of saving many people during the tribulation, through the 144,000 converted Israelite evangelists, and the two witnesses He will place on the earth to preach the Gospel in place of the departed Church, Recorded in Rev.7 through 11.

    Within the above events, many personages are introduced, including the two beasts, one from the sea, the antichrist and the other from the earth, the false prophet and the ten horns/nations allied with them to fight against Christ and His armies from heaven at His second coming. The dragon, Satan, will give his throne, power and great authority to the beast out of the sea, the antichrist, in Rev.13.

    The fourth part consists of the "mother of all prostitutes," the false religion that permeates the entire world, which the antichrist, false prophet and ten nation confederation completely destroy and set up a one world religion oriented to the worship of the antichrist himself who will claim to be God, according to 2 Thes.2:4. The final world power as well as its ruler is identified as a restored Roman empire, such as found in the European Union of today, and the antichrist, a person who was already dead and in the Abyss at the time Jesus gave the vision to John, in Rev.17:8 and 11.

    The above is quickly followed with the destruction of the adulterous economic relationship of Babylon the Great, Jerusalem and Judea, has with all the nations of the earth, that will be destroyed in "one hour." Recorded in Rev.17 and 18.

    The fifth part is the marriage of the Lamb [Jesus] to His Bride [The Church], and His second coming to the earth, with all His saints and angels from heaven, according to Rev.19:11-20 and Mt.24:30-31. The battle of Armageddon takes place, with Christ and His armies from heaven defeating the antichrist, and the false prophet. Who are then thrown into the lake of fire with the armies of the ten horns/nations destroyed.

    Satan is caught and thrown into the Abyss for 1,000 years and the first resurrection takes place of all the martyrs who will be saved during the tribulation, who will be blessed and made priests of God and of Christ and rule with Him during His 1,000 year reign, of world peace, here on the earth.

    When Jesus 1,000 year reign on earth is over, Satan will be released from the Abyss, build another huge army by a renewal of his deceit and lies. He will bring them all up against God's people around Jerusalem, where God will throw Satan into the lake of fire forever, and destroy his army with fire and sulfur from heaven, as recorded in Rev.20:1-3.

    The sixth part is the end of the age, beginning with the great white thrown judgement, when the thrones are set for the judges and the books will be opened of evidence pertaining to all those who will participate in the second resurrection of all those who will be saved during the 1,000 year reign of Christ, and the Godless and the wicked, as found in Dan.12:2 and Jn.5:28-29. The seas will give up all their dead - death and Hades will be thrown into the lake of fire. Meaning from that point on, there will be no more death after this juncture in history. All those whose names are not found in the book of life, will be thrown into the lake of fire, as recorded in Rev.20.

    The present heaven and earth will be destroyed by fire, according to 2 Pet.3:7 and Rev.21:1.

    The seventh part consists of God creating a new heaven and earth, and the description of the eternal kingdom of God and some of the conditions that will take place when that time comes, in the next age. Where all of us who belong to Christ will live with Almighty God and our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ throughout all eternity, in love, peace and happiness, as found in Rev.21 and 22.


    Quasar92
     
  2. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    The fall and restoration of man... the redemption of man... Which is Christ or God...

    God Bless!
     
  3. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Nice story.
    It sounds just like something out of that work of fiction known as the "Left Behind" series.
    Tim LaHaye did not even get the title right, since those "taken" are like those "taken" in the flood.


    Either the two witnesses are two men made of wood and metal or they are a symbol of the New Covenant Church, made up of Israelite and Gentile branches grafted together into one Olive Tree.

    Rev 11:4  These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands standing before the God of the earth. 


    What did Christ say in the verse below about the identity of the lampstands?

    Rev 1:20  The mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands which you saw are the seven churches.


    What did Paul say below about the identity of the Olive Trees? 
    Rom 11:24  For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree? 


    As for the 144,000, most of those tribes no longer exist in their pure form.
    Go to the modern state of Israel and ask which tribe they are from.
    In most cases you will get a blank stare.
    Therefore, these 12,000 from each of the original 12 tribes must be a symbol, in the same way that the "lampstands" and "olive trees" are a symbol.


    The 144,000 are described as "firstfruits" of the Lamb.

    Rev 14:4  These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These were redeemed from among men, being firstfruits to God and to the Lamb. 

    Paul uses the same language to describe Christians in the verse below.

    Rom 16:5  Likewise greet the church that is in their house. Greet my beloved Epaenetus, who is the firstfruits of Achaia to Christ. 


    ...and as a virgin in the following verse.

    2Co_11:2  For I am jealous for you with godly jealousy. For I have betrothed you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.


    No, I did not get it from a seminary professor or the notes of the Scofield Reference Bible.

    It comes from the Bible, instead.

    .
     
  4. vinsight4u

    vinsight4u Contributor

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    /nvm
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2017
  5. vinsight4u

    vinsight4u Contributor

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    /nvm
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2017
  6. vinsight4u

    vinsight4u Contributor

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    /nvm
     
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  7. Dwells

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    First of all prophecy does not always mean a prediction of the future, it may or may not. Propheteia in Greek means "speaking the mind of God" 1 Corinthians 14:3-4
    The symbols in Revelation were probably directed towards it's immediate audience, first century Christians, who would have understood them as related to events and places familiar to them.
    Revelation itself states that it is directed to the Christians in Asia Minor and that the events would happen soon. Revelation 1:1-4,
    Revelation 1:9-11, Revelation 22:10.
    Revelation is associated with the word Apocalypse but it does not mean a cataclysmic disaster but rather apocalypse means an unveiling of things only known to God.
    Revelation offers comfort and encouragement to all Christians in the fact that God is in control and will eventually destroy all evil as He brings in God's Kingdom.
     
  8. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Another allegorical composition that would be done differently every time you make an attempt to interpret something in Rev.

    The OP is my proprietary article, NOT that of something Tim LaHaye wrote. FYI, the Church DOES NOT go through the tribulation! So your above post is DOA. I will provide you the proof Scriptures that fully support it and refute you. once again below:

    In vs 3: "Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that Day [The Day of the Lord, the 70th and final Week, the seven year tribulation] will not come, until the "apostasia" [Greek term in which the original translation was "to depart," or "departure," meaning, the rapture of the Church] occurs and the man of lawlessness [The antichrist, and all three of the "he's" in Dan.9:27] is revealed [Who triggers the Day of the Lord/ the 70th and final Week/ the seven year tribulation], the man doomed to destruction." Which reveals the "apostasia" [Departure] will take place before the antichrist is revealed, who triggers the 70th Week/seven year tribulation. Confirmed in verses 7 and 8 below.

    Translation History of apostasia and discessio: By Thomas Ice, PhD.

    The first seven English translations of apostasia all rendered the noun as either " departure" or " departing." They are as follows: Wycliffe Bible (1384); Tyndale Bible (1526); Coverdale Bible (1535); Cranmer Bible (1539); Breeches Bible (1576); Beza Bible (1583); Geneva Bible (1608) . This supports the notion that the word truly means " departure." In fact, Jerome' s Latin translation known as the Vulgate from around the time of 325 A.D. renders apostasia with the " word discessio, meaning ' departure.' Why was the King James Version the first to depart from the established translation of "departure" in 1611 A.D.? [It is more than likely due to overzealous RCC scribes who altered the original wording of vs 3. to accommodate their teachings of Amillenialism, which rejects both the pre-trib rapture of the Church as well as Jesus Millennial reign her on earth].

    Theodore Beza, the Swiss reformer was the first to transliterate apostasia and create a new word, rather than translate it as others had done. The translators of the King James Version were the first to introduce the new rendering of apostasia as " falling away." Most English translators have followed the KJV and Beza in departing from translating apostasia as " departure." No reason was ever given.

    "He [The antichrist] will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God." Vs 4. [The abomination of desolation, confirming Dan.9:27 and Mt.24:15]. See also 2 Thes.2:4.

    The rapture of the Church and verse 3 confirmed:
    In vs 7: "For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so until he [The saints - Church] is taken out of the way."

    The "he" who will be taken out of the way, is the one body of Christ, who bear the Holy Spirit within each of us [Eph.1:13-14], the Church of Jesus Christ. The very same as those who will participate in the "apostasia," the "departure," [the rapture] of the Church, in vs 3. Immediately following that:

    In vs 8: "And then the lawless one [The antichrist] will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of His mouth and destroy by the splendor of His coming." Vs 8. [See Rev.19:17-21].

    The antichrist is found in all three of the "he's" in Dan. 9:27, confirmed by Jesus in Mt.24:15; Mk.13:14 and by Paul, in 2 Thes.2:3, 4 and 8.


    Quasar92
     
  9. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    So you are saying the New Covenant Church (Hebrews 8:6-13, Hebrews 12:18-24), which is part of the "everlasting" (Hebrews 13:20) New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, is not really "everlasting".

    And you explain away those under the Blood of the Lamb in Revelation 12:11, by calling them "tribulation saints", which is a term not found in scripture.


    And you also claim that modern Jews will come to salvation outside of the New Covenant Church, which is a doctrine unheard of until modern Dispensational Theology showed up on our shores about the time of the Civil War.

    It is very difficult at times for me to understand why modern Christians cannot see what is wrong with what you are promoting.

    .
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2017
  10. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The bunk by Thomas Ice continues to be posted. Below, again, is the debunk:

    Here is the elaboration on 2 Thes. 2:3 in the Wycliffe translation:

    3 [That] No man deceive you in any manner. For but dissension come first [For no but departing away, or dissension, shall come first], and the man of sin be showed, the son of perdition

    Note that dissension (consistent with apostasy, separation, schism) is the elaboration. Rapture is neither explicit nor implicit.

    Wycliffe himself identified antichrist as the papacy, at whose hands the true church was suffering. He unquestionably therefore did not believe in a pretrib rapture.


    And from Calvin's Geneva Study Bible:

    Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

    Calvin also identified antichrist as the papacy, and thus did not believe in a pretrib rapture.
    Same with Tyndale.
    Same with Cranmer, who was martyred by the papacy.
    Coverdale was an associated of Tyndale's, and almost certainly of like persuasion.
    Beza was almost certainly of like persuasion.

    There is no Reformer who defined the word as anything other than apostasy.

    A definition of "discessio" is found at this site.

    Included near the end is a specific ecclesiological subdefinition:
    "In the church, a separation, schism (eccl. Lat.), Vulg. Act. 21, 21; id. 2 Thes. 2, 3."

    Occurrences are cited as being Acts 21:21 and 2 Thes. 2:3.

    Letting Scripture interpret Scripture, the use of the word in Acts 21:21 is translated "forsake," which is completely consistent with the subdefinition above, and has nothing to do with rapture.
     
  11. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    More cultic modernism.

    With a high degree of consensus, the early post-apostolic Church fathers understood that Paul was referring to the imperial Roman empire under which they were living as being the "one who now holds it back." The imperial Roman empire was serving to forestall the emergence of the papal Roman empire, which the Church fathers recognized would be antichrist and the man of sin. Tertullian, Cyril of Jerusalem, John Chrysostom, Jerome, and others of the early Church testified to this understanding.

    Henry Grattan Guinness, noted 19th century Irish evangelist and author, comments:

    "The Fathers held that the Roman empire was the "let," or hindrance, referred to by Paul in 2 Thessalonians, which kept back the manifestation of the "man of sin." This point is of great importance. Paul distinctly tells us that he knew, and that the Thessalonians knew, what that hindrance was, and that it was then in existence. The early Church, through the writings of the Fathers, tells us what it knew upon the subject, and with remarkable unanimity affirms that this "let," or hindrance, was the Roman empire as governed by the Caesars; that while the Caesars held imperial power, it was impossible for the predicted antichrist to arise, and that on the fall of the Caesars he would arise. Here we have a point on which Paul affirms the existence of knowledge in the Christian Church. The early Church knew, he says, what this hindrance was. The early Church tells us what it did know upon the subject, and no one in these days can be in a position to contradict its testimony as to what Paul had, by word of mouth only, told the Thessalonians. It is a point on which ancient tradition alone can have any authority. Modern speculation is positively impertinent on such a subject."

    Chrysostom explains why Paul was speaking not of the Church or the Holy Spirit, but of the imperial Roman empire, and why he used obscure, guarded language to do so:

    "Because if he meant to say the Spirit, he would not have spoken obscurely, but plainly, that even now the grace of the Spirit, that is the gifts, withhold him. And otherwise he ought now to have come, if he was about to come when the gifts ceased; for they have long since ceased. But because he said this of the Roman empire, he naturally glanced at it, and speaks covertly and darkly. For he did not wish to bring upon himself superfluous enmities, and useless dangers. For if he had said that after a little while the Roman empire would be dissolved, they would immediately have even overwhelmed him, as a pestilent person, and all the faithful, as living and warring to this end."


    Guinness nailed it: "Modern speculation is positively impertinent on such a subject."
     
  12. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Your efforts to put words in my mouth are a joke! None of the speculation in your above contribution is true!

    The New Covenant was established by the will of God through the events as recorded in Jn.3:16, brought to fruition through the shed blood of Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior. He and He alone is the founder of HIS Church - consisting of everyone who believes/receives Him as Lord. His Church pf believers are members of His body, through,the baptism of the Holy Spirit, as recorded in 1 Cor.12:12-13.

    Israel has not yet participated in the New Covenant of Grace, ratified by Jesus shed blood on the cross, recorded in Lk.22:20. And they won't participate until Jesus second coming, as recorded in Zech.12:10 and Zech.14:4-5. That is when Jer.31:31-34 will be fulfilled!


    Quasar92
     
  13. nonaeroterraqueous

    nonaeroterraqueous Impractical Rat

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    I haven't met a Jew, yet, who didn't know what tribe he was from. For the most part, they're all from Judah, with a minority of them being Levites. It's not that difficult, really. Only the seriously secular ones wouldn't know. Christians, on the other hand, get all confused about it.
     
  14. nonaeroterraqueous

    nonaeroterraqueous Impractical Rat

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    I was happier when they said that the word "rapture" was not in the Bible. You have put what was not there into the Bible, not by adding words, but by changing their meaning (the Supreme Court method). Now I must be apostate or I will face the wrath of God. You have painted us all into a shameful corner, I'm afraid.
     
  15. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Then you may want to get out your Bible and read Hebrews 8:6-13, where you will find the exact text from Jeremiah 31:31-34 repeated word-for-word and bracketed with text making it plain that this New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah was in effect during the first century. It was fulfilled at Calvary with the words "It is finished", found in John 19:30.

    Heb 8:6  But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises. 
    (We find here that this better covenant was fulfilled in the past tense, during the first century.)


    Heb 8:7  For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 
    Heb 8:8  Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH— (The Uppercase text in the passage comes from Jeremiah 31:31-34)

    Heb 8:9  NOT ACCORDING TO THE COVENANT THAT I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS IN THE DAY WHEN I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND TO LEAD THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT; BECAUSE THEY DID NOT CONTINUE IN MY COVENANT, AND I DISREGARDED THEM, SAYS THE LORD. 
    Heb 8:10  FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS IN THEIR MIND AND WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE. 
    Heb 8:11  NONE OF THEM SHALL TEACH HIS NEIGHBOR, AND NONE HIS BROTHER, SAYING, 'KNOW THE LORD,' FOR ALL SHALL KNOW ME, FROM THE LEAST OF THEM TO THE GREATEST OF THEM. 
    Heb 8:12  FOR I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR UNRIGHTEOUSNESS, AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE." 
    Heb 8:13  In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete
    . Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. 
    (Here again, we find that this New Covenant had made the Old Covenant "obsolete" during the first century.)


    You are also ignoring Peter's words on the Day of Pentecost.

    Act 2:14  But Peter, standing up with the eleven, raised his voice and said to them, "Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and heed my words. 

    Act 2:22  "Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know— 

    Act 2:36  "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ."

    Act 2:37  Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Men and brethren, what shall we do?" 

    Act 2:38  Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 

    Act 2:39  For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call." 

    Act 2:40  And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, "Be saved from this perverse generation." 

    Act 2:41  Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them. 

    On the Day of Pentecost about 3,000 Israelites accepted the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled in Hebrews 8:6-13.

    When the Church began, almost all of its members were Israelites. (Romans 11:1) The Gentiles were grafted in several years later.

    John Nelson Darby's Two Peoples of God doctrine has just turned into a vapor and disappeared.

    We find the confirmation below.
    There is one flock, with One Shepherd.

    Joh 10:16  And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd. 


    Nobody will come to salvation during the future, outside of the "everlasting" (Hebrews 13:20) New Covenant Church.
    There is no Plan B. (Galatians 1:6-9)

    .
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2017
  16. vinsight4u

    vinsight4u Contributor

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    /nvm
     
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  17. vinsight4u

    vinsight4u Contributor

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    /nvm
     
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  18. vinsight4u

    vinsight4u Contributor

    +912
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    /nvm
     
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  19. parousia70

    parousia70 Goin' where the Wind don't blow so strange Supporter

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    Where does scripture teach this non-literal interpretation of the 7 Churches of Revelation?
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2017
  20. mark kennedy

    mark kennedy Natura non facit saltum Supporter

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    It does start with the 7 letters the seven churches in Asia Minor (1st century Turkey). All the other churches were seeded by Ephesus including the church at Colossae. If you were to take a boat to Ephesus in the first century there was a Roman Road that ran in a big circle through Asia minor. If you followed that road north you would encounter Smyrna, Pergamos and the other churches in the order they are listed. They are represented in the opening passage as the menorah, the seven pronged golden lampstand that stood in the Holy Place. The appearance of the Son of Man resembles the High Priest, the idea is that Christ is attending to the church like a Levitical priest tended to the menorah. In the fifth chapter the Menorah is blazing before the Throne, represented in the Temple as the Holy of Holies. In the sixth chapter the opening of the first six seals happens and the four horsemen represent the rise of the Antichrist, in the fifth seal are the martyrs beneath the alter and the sixth seal is wrath on the armies of the Antichrist. That's the first section culminating in the opening of the seals at the beginning of the Tribulation.

    I'd say the next part is from 8-14:

    8) S-7 Silence, Trumpets sounded (T-1 thru T4)
    9) T-5 Locusts, T-6 Euphrates
    10) The Angel and the Little Book
    11) The Two Witnesses clothed in sackcloth
    12) The Woman, Child, Dragon
    13) The Beast of the Land and the Beast of the Sea
    14) 3 Angels proclaim: 144,000, Gospel, Wrath on 666

    The final seal is opened and the trumpets 1-4 are sounded. Then in the ninth chapter trumpets 5 and 6 are sounded. In chapter 11 we are exactly in the middle of the Tribulation according to, two explicit proof texts. The Messiah arrives in Jerusalem 69 weeks or 490 years:

    From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes, there will be seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens.’ (Dan. 9:25)​

    That leaves on week, a seven year period that is currently suspended because Israel rejected the Messiah, starts at the opening of the first seal. The first 6 Trumpets are sounded 3 1/2 years into the 7 year tribulation:

    They will trample on the holy city for 42 months. 3 And I will appoint my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth. (Rev. 11:2,3)

    The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days. (Rev. 12:6)​


    In the wake of the trumpet blasts and the repentance of Israel the personages are being introduced, this describes the scene before the pouring out of the vials of wrath. Vials were used to pour out on an army that is laying siege, the target here is Jerusalem. The final section of seven chapters describes God destroying the kingdom of the Beast:

    15) 7 Angels given the 7 Vials of Wrath
    16) Vials of Wrath: V-1 thru V-7
    17) Babylon and the Beast with 7 heads
    18) The wine of the wrath of her fall
    19) The wedding feast of the Lamb
    20) The Dragon bound 1,000 years
    21) The New Jerusalem

    The Antichrist and the False Prophet are tossed into the Lake of Fire, not the Abyss:

    But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. (Rev. 19:20)​

    This is all the way at the end of the Tribulation, you missed it by two chapters.

    Grace and peace,
    Mark
     
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