What is the Antichrist known as in the Bible?

[Brian Mcnamee]

The word is never used in Revelations, it was outlined in the actual post

Daniel talks about 70 weeks and isolates the last week into 7 years with a midpoint at the abomination of desolation. Revelation is broken down to 42 months from the abomination of desolation until the end. These passages can be proved to be speaking about the same events. Thessalonians also is on target as are many other passages of the Bible.

 

[Brian Mcnamee]

from a biblical perspective Nero is an epic fail. The rise of antichrist is specifically associated with many related prophecies such as the two witnesses who prophecy for 42 months and are killed and the world rejoices at their deaths and then after 3 days they rise and ascend into heaven. The plagues of the seal judgments kill 1/4 of all the earth and peace is taken form the earth and famine and the beasts kill off this many. This is not a regional prophecy. The sacrifice did stop in 70AD but the scriptures are clear form that moment on their are 42 months left and from that point on the mark of the beast is brought forth. None of this happened in 70AD. So those who do not agree with 70AD would look for a time when Israel would become a nation and Jerusalem would be the greatest spot of conflict on the planet. The Jews would resume the daily sacrifices at a time when world government was arising. We look out now and see exactly that. Guys in the past that believed the scriptures to be literal like Isaac Newton predicted Just what we see now when there was no evidence that it was coming to pass. The moral decline and technological advancements also fit the futuristic prophetic scenario. In Noah's day that big boat was sitting on dry land and the people did not get the flood was coming. Today the temple institute has prepared everything to resume the daily sacrifices not done since 70AD . This is a big sing that the literal futuristic view is correct.

 

[Brian Mcnamee]

Hi brother. I agree that the Antichrist is a man, but what type of a man? Please correct me if I am wrong, but, from what I have been able to understand, this man is unredeemable. There is no saving grace for him.We know that Lord Jesus came to seek and to save lost humanity. We know also that Lord said the end would be as it was in the days of Noah. Some historical texts say there were hybrid men in those days who were totally unredeemable, and that they all died in the flood of Noah. Isaiah ,imho, is discussing the fate of this man here.
Isaiah14:19 But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.

20 Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.

Now, I am a little confused about this describing the beast with the 10 horns. I believe he is the Antichrist, but the deadly head wound that was healed was on one of his heads. So, is this describing a man or a system. Also, if the Antichrist, the man, is unredeemable, do you think it is possible that he might be a hybrid man? These are just a couple of things I have been pondering.

Judas walked with Jesus and was called the son of perdition. God has fore knowledge so he knew Judas would fail. In exodus the 1st part shows that Pharoah hardened his own heart several times and then the Lord hardened Pharoah's heart. You see the LORD hardened his heart in a place where Pharoah had already resisted the opportunity to repent. Jesus was tempted by Satan and offered all the kingdoms of the world at a time. Jesus refused but prophesied that He came in His fathers name and was rejected and warned in another come in his own name him you will receive. The antichrist is a man who takes the offer that was given to Jesus and he is sold out for Satan. He may even be a demonic hybrid like in Genesis as he will survive the mortal wound and from that point on will declare himself to be some sort of God. it is here the mark of the beast is enforced and the image sent forth.

 

[jgr]

Hi sis,

As unbelievable as it seems from the description of who and what he is and will do, the Scriptures reveal the Antichrist is a mere man, See Rev.13:18. Thought you might be interested in the following about who the Jews think #666 is, in the following:

Is the Antichrist and Number 666 in Hebrew Nero(n)?

THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST in Rev.13:18:

During Roman occupation it was illegal for citizens to criticise the Roman leadership. If the Jews wanted to criticize, they would have to invent a code language. Babylon for instance was the code for the Roman Empire. The harlot of Babylon would be the name for the Caesar. The heads of the beast would be representative of the power structure of the Roman Empire.

666 would refer to Nero Caesar. In the Hebrew Art of Gematria, every letter has a numeric value. If you convert Nero Caesar to Hebrew and convert it to Gematria you will get the number 666. The Letter N in Hebrew has a value of 50. When you convert Nero in Hebrew, it would be Neron, but some jews would say Nero, meaning it could be 616 or 666. Old manuscripts of the book of Revelations also have 616 instead of 666. Again, this need to use numbers instead of names was used in order to avoid directly criticizing the political establishment for fear of being arrested.
If you want a further analysis read the chapter on Revelations in Bart D Ehrman's book: "A historical introduction into early christian writings". Professor Ehrman teaches at the university of North Carolina, Chapel Hill. He is a textual critic of early Christian Writings.

SO TO HEBREW GEMMATRIA WE MUST TURN IF WE ARE TO MAKE SENSE OF THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST BEING THE NUMBER OF A MAN...

If we use a Hebrew Aramaic Gemmatrial system (where each Hebrew Letter has a corresponding NUMBER attached) the system works like this:

ALEPH =1 = (' )
BETH =2 =B
GIMMEL =3 =G
DALED =4 =D
HEH =5 =H
VAV =6 =V and O
TSAYIN =7 = Z
CHET =8 = CH
TET =9 = T
YUD =10 = Y or I
KAPH =20 = K
LAMED =30 = L
MEM =40 = M
NUN =50 = N
SAMEK =60 = S
Q'AYIN =70 = 'Q
PHE =80 = F
TSADEH = 90 = TZ
QUPH =100 = Q or K or hard C
RESH =200 = R
SHIN/SHIN =300 = S or SH
TAV =400 = T or TH

Since the Apocalypse of Yohanon the Elder (Book of Revelation) has TWO competing gemmatria for the "name of the beast", and was written during the 1st Jewish War against Rome (AD 66-72) the correct individual would presumably have to fit both 616 and 666 found in the 2 competing manuscript families for this marginal insertion...


The Roman Emperor NERO fits the bill nicely (he was the infamous sadistic but "Divine" Emperor-Caesar of Rome in AD 66 when the Revolt in Judaea broke out and used to burn Jews (i.e. Jewish Messianic Christians) in Rome in his gardens by dipping them in tar so they'd be able to light up the courtyard better!)

The Emperor Nero's hidden "gemmatrial" (i.e. Kaballistic-numerological) name in Hebrew Letters (with the letter VAV used for LONG O) would have been either written in Hebrew letters as: N R O N Q S R (=666, add them up) = this is the preferred version as spoken by the Greeks or else as: N R O Q S R (i.e. 616).

NERO was probably the original intent of the writer, but the "Book of Revelation"was re-written so many times in its long literary history, (e.g. in 96 AD (re-edited) with another Emperor (Nero-Domitian) in mind, and the text was applied to every succeeding generation where "persecution of the Elect" was in effect.)

Despite the "rhetoric of hope" for the "Elect" in the Book of Revelation which was meant to strengthen the resolve of those fighting the "Beast" contrary to the hopes of the writer, Jerusalem did not descend from the sky as promised, and 900,000 Palestinian Jews lost their lives in a war which, according to Josephus, should not have been ever fought in the first place...

From: 666-where does it come from?, page 1

This is copyright material and must not be copied in any way until going to the following to obtain the guidelines for its use!

Attribution. You must attribute authorship of the work to "Byrd; a member of AboveTopSecret.com", and include the title of the message thread, 666-where does it come from?; and this full link URL to the post:
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From another source:

In Roman times, the language used was Latin, and Nero was "Nero" ! That is his latin name! Also, in Italian, the name is "Nero"! Many of the romance languages developed from Latin - Italian, French, Spanish. In Greek and in Hebrew, Nero was Neron

When Nero Caesar's name is transliterated into Hebrew, which a first-century Jew would probably have done, he would have gotten Neron Kesar or simply nrwn qsr, since Hebrew has no letters to represent vowels. "It has been documented by archaeological finds that a first century Hebrew spelling of Nero's name provides us with precisely the value of 666. Jastrow's lexicon of the Talmud contains this very spelling."5 When we take the letters of Nero's name and spell them in Hebrew, we get the following numeric values: n=50, r=200, w=6, n=50, q=100, s=60, r=200 = 666. "Every Jewish reader, of course, saw that the Beast was a symbol of Nero. And both Jews and Christians regarded Nero as also having close affinities with the serpent or dragon. . . . The Apostle writing as a Hebrew, was evidently thinking as a Hebrew. . . . Accordingly, the Jewish Christian would have tried the name as he thought of the name - that is in Hebrew letters. And the moment that he did this the secret stood revealed. No Jew ever thought of Nero except as "Neron Kesar."6

The fragment supports the reading of some Greek New Testament manuscripts that read 616 instead of 666. Why would someone making a copy of the Revelation scroll make such a number change? "Perhaps the change was intentional, seeing that the Greek form Neron Caesar written in Hebrew characters (nrwn qsr) is equivalent to 666, whereas the Latin form Nero Caesar (nrw qsr) is equivalent to 616." A Latin copyist might have thought that 666 was an error because Nero Caesar did not add up to 666 when transliterated into Latin. He then changed 666 to 616 to conform to the Latin rendering since it was generally accepted that Nero was the Beast. In either case, a Hebrew transliteration nets 666, while a Latin spelling nets 616. Nero was the "man" and either 666 or 616 was his number.

Partial source: English : Nero Italian: Nerone, French: Néron, what were the emperors called in roman times?


Quasar92

VICARIVS FILII DEI = Vicar of the Son of God = 666 in commonly recognizable Roman/Latin numerals.
No esoteric gematrial knowledge necessary.

 

[jgr]

This is a big sing that the literal futuristic view is correct.

Not sure what a "big sing" is, but the literal futuristic view is a product of the 16th century papal counter reformation, contrived by Jesuit priest Francisco Ribera to deflect the Reformers' proclamation of the papacy as (an) antichrist.

“Protestants who advocate the futuristic system are pleasing the pope and are playing into the hands of Rome.” (Joseph Zacchello, former Catholic priest).

Futurists have been "papalized."

 

[Brian Mcnamee]

it is a typo for sign. You are way off and have ignored all the present signs that show these things are taking place. I pointed out no 2 prophets no wars that kill 1/4 of mankind, no mark of the beast nothing happened 42 months after the sacrifices were stopped. The current scene fits all futuristic parameters. Friend of the pope with this view is a joke as this view has the Vatican promoting the NWO one world religion and most think the current pope will be the false prophet. How is that the position they would want anyone to take.?

 

[jgr]

most think the current pope will be the false prophet

Who thinks that?

 

[jgr]

it is a typo for sign. You are way off and have ignored all the present signs that show these things are taking place. I pointed out no 2 prophets no wars that kill 1/4 of mankind, no mark of the beast nothing happened 42 months after the sacrifices were stopped. The current scene fits all futuristic parameters. Friend of the pope with this view is a joke as this view has the Vatican promoting the NWO one world religion and most think the current pope will be the false prophet. How is that the position they would want anyone to take.?

I might be way off, but the Reformers weren't. They lived and died in the midst of everything of which they spoke, so their historical record of fulfillment constitutes unassailable proof. That is a claim which futurism obviously cannot make.

 

[toLiJC]

What is the Antichrist known as in the Bible?

1 Jn.2:18 is the only place in the Bible where the term Antichrist is found. But he is referred to by a number of different terms as recorded below, and where to find them:

1. He is the "little horn" in Dan.7:8;

2. He is known as a "stern faced king, in Dan.8:23.

3. He is all three of the "he's" in Dan.9:27.

4. In 2 Thess.2:3, 4, he is referred to as "the man of lawlessness."

5. In 2 Thess.2:8-9, he is referred to as the "lawless one."

6. In Rev.11:7; 17:3, 7, 8, 11, 12, 13, 16 and 17, he is called the beast.

7. In Rev.13:1, 2, 3, 4 and 5, he is called the beast out of the Sea.

The beast out of the earth in Rev.13:11-17 is the False Prophet and the activity he is involved in:

11 Then I saw a second beast, coming out of the earth. It had two horns like a lamb, but it spoke like a dragon. 12 It exercised all the authority of the first beast on its behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed. 13 And it performed great signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to the earth in full view of the people. 14 Because of the signs it was given power to perform on behalf of the first beast, it deceived the inhabitants of the earth. It ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived. 15 The second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed. 16 It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads, 17 so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name"

When Jesus returns in His second coming with His armies from heaven, He will defeat both beasts, the Antichrist and the False Prophet, Throw them in the lake of fire, and destroy the armies of the ten horns/nations allied to them, recorded in Rev.19:11-21.




Quasar92

it is the spirit that works in the spiritual servants of unrighteousness, actually the devil itself, the spirit of antichrist

Blessings

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

Hi sis,

As unbelievable as it seems from the description of who and what he is and will do, the Scriptures reveal the Antichrist is a mere man, See Rev.13:18. Thought you might be interested in the following about who the Jews think #666 is, in the following:

Is the Antichrist and Number 666 in Hebrew Nero(n)?

THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST in Rev.13:18:

During Roman occupation it was illegal for citizens to criticise the Roman leadership. If the Jews wanted to criticize, they would have to invent a code language. Babylon for instance was the code for the Roman Empire. The harlot of Babylon would be the name for the Caesar. The heads of the beast would be representative of the power structure of the Roman Empire.

666 would refer to Nero Caesar. In the Hebrew Art of Gematria, every letter has a numeric value. If you convert Nero Caesar to Hebrew and convert it to Gematria you will get the number 666. The Letter N in Hebrew has a value of 50. When you convert Nero in Hebrew, it would be Neron, but some jews would say Nero, meaning it could be 616 or 666. Old manuscripts of the book of Revelations also have 616 instead of 666. Again, this need to use numbers instead of names was used in order to avoid directly criticizing the political establishment for fear of being arrested.
If you want a further analysis read the chapter on Revelations in Bart D Ehrman's book: "A historical introduction into early christian writings". Professor Ehrman teaches at the university of North Carolina, Chapel Hill. He is a textual critic of early Christian Writings.

SO TO HEBREW GEMMATRIA WE MUST TURN IF WE ARE TO MAKE SENSE OF THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST BEING THE NUMBER OF A MAN...

If we use a Hebrew Aramaic Gemmatrial system (where each Hebrew Letter has a corresponding NUMBER attached) the system works like this:

ALEPH =1 = (' )
BETH =2 =B
GIMMEL =3 =G
DALED =4 =D
HEH =5 =H
VAV =6 =V and O
TSAYIN =7 = Z
CHET =8 = CH
TET =9 = T
YUD =10 = Y or I
KAPH =20 = K
LAMED =30 = L
MEM =40 = M
NUN =50 = N
SAMEK =60 = S
Q'AYIN =70 = 'Q
PHE =80 = F
TSADEH = 90 = TZ
QUPH =100 = Q or K or hard C
RESH =200 = R
SHIN/SHIN =300 = S or SH
TAV =400 = T or TH

Since the Apocalypse of Yohanon the Elder (Book of Revelation) has TWO competing gemmatria for the "name of the beast", and was written during the 1st Jewish War against Rome (AD 66-72) the correct individual would presumably have to fit both 616 and 666 found in the 2 competing manuscript families for this marginal insertion...


The Roman Emperor NERO fits the bill nicely (he was the infamous sadistic but "Divine" Emperor-Caesar of Rome in AD 66 when the Revolt in Judaea broke out and used to burn Jews (i.e. Jewish Messianic Christians) in Rome in his gardens by dipping them in tar so they'd be able to light up the courtyard better!)

The Emperor Nero's hidden "gemmatrial" (i.e. Kaballistic-numerological) name in Hebrew Letters (with the letter VAV used for LONG O) would have been either written in Hebrew letters as: N R O N Q S R (=666, add them up) = this is the preferred version as spoken by the Greeks or else as: N R O Q S R (i.e. 616).

NERO was probably the original intent of the writer, but the "Book of Revelation"was re-written so many times in its long literary history, (e.g. in 96 AD (re-edited) with another Emperor (Nero-Domitian) in mind, and the text was applied to every succeeding generation where "persecution of the Elect" was in effect.)

Despite the "rhetoric of hope" for the "Elect" in the Book of Revelation which was meant to strengthen the resolve of those fighting the "Beast" contrary to the hopes of the writer, Jerusalem did not descend from the sky as promised, and 900,000 Palestinian Jews lost their lives in a war which, according to Josephus, should not have been ever fought in the first place...

From: 666-where does it come from?, page 1

This is copyright material and must not be copied in any way until going to the following to obtain the guidelines for its use!

Attribution. You must attribute authorship of the work to "Byrd; a member of AboveTopSecret.com", and include the title of the message thread, 666-where does it come from?; and this full link URL to the post:
666-where does it come from?, page 1. (Unless otherwise noted, photography and other artwork linked within member posts are subject to the usage rights of the individual owners of the linked artwork.)

From another source:

In Roman times, the language used was Latin, and Nero was "Nero" ! That is his latin name! Also, in Italian, the name is "Nero"! Many of the romance languages developed from Latin - Italian, French, Spanish. In Greek and in Hebrew, Nero was Neron

When Nero Caesar's name is transliterated into Hebrew, which a first-century Jew would probably have done, he would have gotten Neron Kesar or simply nrwn qsr, since Hebrew has no letters to represent vowels. "It has been documented by archaeological finds that a first century Hebrew spelling of Nero's name provides us with precisely the value of 666. Jastrow's lexicon of the Talmud contains this very spelling."5 When we take the letters of Nero's name and spell them in Hebrew, we get the following numeric values: n=50, r=200, w=6, n=50, q=100, s=60, r=200 = 666. "Every Jewish reader, of course, saw that the Beast was a symbol of Nero. And both Jews and Christians regarded Nero as also having close affinities with the serpent or dragon. . . . The Apostle writing as a Hebrew, was evidently thinking as a Hebrew. . . . Accordingly, the Jewish Christian would have tried the name as he thought of the name - that is in Hebrew letters. And the moment that he did this the secret stood revealed. No Jew ever thought of Nero except as "Neron Kesar."6

The fragment supports the reading of some Greek New Testament manuscripts that read 616 instead of 666. Why would someone making a copy of the Revelation scroll make such a number change? "Perhaps the change was intentional, seeing that the Greek form Neron Caesar written in Hebrew characters (nrwn qsr) is equivalent to 666, whereas the Latin form Nero Caesar (nrw qsr) is equivalent to 616." A Latin copyist might have thought that 666 was an error because Nero Caesar did not add up to 666 when transliterated into Latin. He then changed 666 to 616 to conform to the Latin rendering since it was generally accepted that Nero was the Beast. In either case, a Hebrew transliteration nets 666, while a Latin spelling nets 616. Nero was the "man" and either 666 or 616 was his number.

Partial source: English : Nero Italian: Nerone, French: Néron, what were the emperors called in roman times?


Quasar92

Wow! Thank you brother. This will result in fruitful study for me and is much food for thought. I will check out the links you posted.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

The antichrist is a man who takes the offer that was given to Jesus and he is sold out for Satan. He may even be a demonic hybrid like in Genesis as he will survive the mortal wound and from that point on will declare himself to be some sort of God. it is here the mark of the beast is enforced and the image sent forth.

Yes, this is the way I see it too.

 

[parousia70]

1 Jn.2:18 is the only place in the Bible where the term Antichrist is found.

Simply, demonstrably, untrue, false, fake, & incorrect.

1 John 2:18
Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1 John 2:22
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1 John 4:3
And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2 John 1:7
For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

When you lead with something so easily disprovable from scripture as this, the rest of your dissertation becomes wholly unreliable.

 

[Brian Mcnamee]

I might be way off, but the Reformers weren't. They lived and died in the midst of everything of which they spoke, so their historical record of fulfillment constitutes unassailable proof. That is a claim which futurism obviously cannot make.

I might be way off, but the Reformers weren't. They lived and died in the midst of everything of which they spoke, so their historical record of fulfillment constitutes unassailable proof. That is a claim which futurism obviously cannot make.

The questions raised to support a futurist view are not refuted logically by saying the reformers are right that is a poor argument and one that in a debate will lose as you have not countered any of the points that show scripture describes two witnesses and their actions and a timeline for events in revelation. The argument that these things have never happened is valid. The one who holds Gods word to a standard God set for himself will find they believe what it written as God declared the law for the prophets that the prophet had to be 100% correct. Peter said no prophecy is on any private interpretation. So when someone can present hundreds of prophecies that have never happened and also a framework where they all work in harmony with a futurist view that might be considered a strong case. For instance in Zech 14 it prophecies a day when the LORD comes with all of his saints and on this day the MT of Olives will split in two and a new valley will form and also a new river will flow from Jerusalem year round. It also says that is a day when Jerusalem is being overrun and a day when at night it will be daylight and that the LORD will kill those enemies by melting them. On this day it says the LORD shall be king over all the earth. Then it says the nations from that point on will have to keep the feast of Tabernacles or they will get no rain. So my wild interpretation as a futurist is this is the day of the 2nd coming and it will happen just as it is written.
This fits Dan 2 the stone descending from heaven destroying the image of mans kingdoms and this stone covers the earth and is a kingdom that has no end.
This fits Revelation where Satan is bound for 1000 years and those who have died live and reign with Jesus for 1000 years.
This fits Luke 2 where Zacharias spoke by the Holy Spirit and said of Jesus
68 “Blessed is the Lord God of Israel,
For He has visited and redeemed His people,
69 And has raised up a horn of salvation for us
In the house of His servant David,
70 As He spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets,
Who have been since the world began,
71 That we should be saved from our enemies
And from the hand of all who hate us,
72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers
And to remember His holy covenant,
73 The oath which He swore to our father Abraham:
74 To grant us that we,
Being delivered from the hand of our enemies,
Might serve Him without fear,
75 In holiness and righteousness before Him all the days of our life.

You see Zacharias promised a day when Israel is delivered from their enemies and from that point on they can worship and serve without fear all the days of their lives in holiness and righteousness. You see in zechariah 14 Israel is delivered and a time of safety and security will begin. In zech 14 it says in that day they shall say the LORD is one. This is Jesus coming with his saints and setting up the kingdom. Israel is saying the LORD is one and including Jesus as the LORD.

Paul in Romans said blindness has come partially to Israel until...until this moment. In Revelation it speaks of the mystery of God being finished. There is no more mystery when Jesus descends and takes over as king of king and LORD of Lords.

I also pointed out how the dominoes are going to fall and showed the prophetic scenario is exactly lined up with this view.

 

[Quasar92]

Simply, demonstrably, untrue, false, fake, & incorrect.

1 John 2:18
Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1 John 2:22
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1 John 4:3
And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2 John 1:7
For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

When you lead with something so easily disprovable from scripture as this, the rest of your dissertation becomes wholly unreliable.

Yes. Youre right. I need to correct my data bank on that to read that the word, Antichrist, is found in the first two epistles of John.


Quasar92

 

[BABerean2]

Paul in Romans said blindness has come partially to Israel until...until this moment.

Paul did not say that all of the Israelites were "partially" blinded.

He said part of them were blinded and part of them were not.

This is confirmed by Romans 11:1-5.

You are attempting to change the word "so", which is an adverb of manner, into the word "then", which is an adverb of timing, in Romans 11:26.
The Olive Tree of Romans 11 is a symbol of the New Covenant Church made up of Israelites and Gentiles grafted together into one tree.
Paul said the branches broken off can be grafted back into the tree, through faith in Christ.
There is no Plan B, outside of the New Covenant Church.


The New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, is found fulfilled by Christ in Hebrews 8:6-13, and is specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:22-24, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8.
On the Day of Pentecost Peter addressed the crowd as "men of Judea", then as "men of Israel", and in Acts 2:36 as "all the house of Israel". When the Church first began almost all of its members were Israelites.
Therefore, Israel and the Church cannot be separated.

.

 

[jgr]

The questions raised to support a futurist view are not refuted logically by saying the reformers are right that is a poor argument and one that in a debate will lose as you have not countered any of the points that show scripture describes two witnesses and their actions and a timeline for events in revelation

In a contest between historical fulfillment and futurized speculation, historical fulfillment will always win. Why? Because it is irrefutable proof, the purest truth that exists.

 

[Brian Mcnamee]

Simply, demonstrably, untrue, false, fake, & incorrect.

1 John 2:18
Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1 John 2:22
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1 John 4:3
And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2 John 1:7
For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

When you lead with something so easily disprovable from scripture as this, the rest of your dissertation becomes wholly unreliable.

This chapter is speaking that there is a Spirit of antichrist and already many antichrist and gives give characteristics of them. This blanket application does not rule out the possibility of a specific single person who will be the singular antichrist rising up at a specific time. Here are some scriptures that speak towards the conclusion that there is a future antichrist. In John 5 You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. 40 But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life. 41 “I do not receive honor from men. 42 But I know you, that you do not have the love of God in you. 43 I have come in My Father’s name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive

Who is this one coming in his own name?

2 Thess gives a pretty good clue.
1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

Rev
I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns,[fn] and on his horns ten crowns, and on his heads a blasphemous name. 2 Now the beast which I saw was like a leopard, his feet were like the feet of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. The dragon gave him his power, his throne, and great authority. 3 And I saw one of his heads as if it had been mortally wounded, and his deadly wound was healed. And all the world marveled and followed the beast. 4 So they worshiped the dragon who gave authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?”
5 And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to continue[fn] for forty-two months. 6 Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven. 7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe,[fn] tongue, and nation. 8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

When Jesus was tempted by Satan he was offered all the kingdoms of this world in a time and Jesus refused. Here we see a man who is given this authority from Satan and has the authority over every tongue tribe and nation. He is the one who Dan 9 is the prince to come who commits the abomination of desolation and is given 42 months from that point on. He survives a mortal wound and kills the two witnesses who have been performing signs. I believe this is going to happen and to try to blanket it as all fulfilled in 70AD is dangerously close to taking away from the book which is warned about. Lastly no nation has ever lost their homeland for over 1800 years and became a nation again and no dead language has ever returned to be used again. They have not had the sacrifice since 70AD. The return of the sacrifice is already prepared for. Scripture in Hosea links the long absence of the sacrifice and its return to the return of the kingdom. 4 For the children of Israel shall abide many days without king or prince, without sacrifice or sacred pillar, without ephod or teraphim. 5 Afterward the children of Israel shall return and seek the LORD their God and David their king. They shall fear the LORD and His goodness in the latter days.

The book of Revelation shows that from the abomination of desolation which is in the temple there are 42 months to go. The angel proclaims the kingdoms of this earth have become the kingdoms of our LORD and his Christ and He shall reign forever and ever. This is back to Zech 14 once again. The point is if there was no Israel and no one world government on the horizon you might see how the error of replacement theology came about. Now the very specific items required for a futurist view are all in place against incredible odds. Guys like Issac Newton understood Israel was to come back for the scriptures declared so. This is great evidence that this view is correct.

 

[parousia70]

This chapter is speaking that there is a Spirit of antichrist and already many antichrist and gives give characteristics of them.

Indeed, proving to John that the "last Hour" had come upon him and his contemporaries.

This blanket application does not rule out the possibility of a specific single person who will be the singular antichrist rising up at a specific time.

It rules out the notion that any one single world ruler tyrant dude is properly, biblically identified as "antchrist". Such is purely the invention of man and is taught nowhere in scripture.

The ACTUAL scriptural teaching on antichrist is that IT (not he) was a 1st century church heresy that affected "many" who were once part of the church but had left, and was proof positive that the last hour had come upon John and his contemporaries.

That is the SCRIPTURAL teaching of the proper identity of antichrist.
Any other teaching is purely the later inventions & traditions of men and can be found nowhere in scripture.

 

[Brian Mcnamee]

Paul did not say that all of the Israelites were "partially" blinded.

He said part of them were blinded and part of them were not.

This is confirmed by Romans 11:1-5.

You are attempting to change the word "so", which is an adverb of manner, into the word "then", which is an adverb of timing, in Romans 11:26.
The Olive Tree of Romans 11 is a symbol of the New Covenant Church made up of Israelites and Gentiles grafted together into one tree.
Paul said the branches broken off can be grafted back into the tree, through faith in Christ.
There is no Plan B, outside of the New Covenant Church.


The New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, is found fulfilled by Christ in Hebrews 8:6-13, and is specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:22-24, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8.
On the Day of Pentecost Peter addressed the crowd as "men of Judea", then as "men of Israel", and in Acts 2:36 as "all the house of Israel". When the Church first began almost all of its members were Israelites.
Therefore, Israel and the Church cannot be separated.

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these discussions follow the same trails Jer 31 promising the new covenant not according to the one made in desert which was with Moses and this does not annul the covenant made with Abraham. After promising a new covenant for the removal of sin it speaks prophetically of Israel.
34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”
35 Thus says the LORD,
Who gives the sun for a light by day,
The ordinances of the moon and the stars for a light by night,
Who disturbs the sea,
And its waves roar
(The LORD of hosts is His name):
36 “If those ordinances depart
From before Me, says the LORD,
Then the seed of Israel shall also cease
From being a nation before Me forever.”
37 Thus says the LORD:
“If heaven above can be measured,
And the foundations of the earth searched out beneath,
I will also cast off all the seed of Israel
For all that they have done, says the LORD.
38 “Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, that the city shall be built for the LORD from the Tower of Hananel to the Corner Gate. 39 The surveyor’s line shall again extend straight forward over the hill Gareb; then it shall turn toward Goath. 40 And the whole valley of the dead bodies and of the ashes, and all the fields as far as the Brook Kidron, to the corner of the Horse Gate toward the east, shall be holy to the LORD. It shall not be plucked up or thrown down anymore forever.”

You see the LORD declares Israel will not cease to be a nation and then God marks a day that specific places in jerusalem will be never be thrown down again. And it sights all the dead bodies a whole valley of them. This again ties directly to Zech 14 and Revelation and Joel so many more the 2nd coming of Christ will leave many dead and from that point on these gates will not be thrown down again. I take it as it is written so how do you explain all of these verses speaking of the mt of olives splitting and so many specific things related directly to Israel? You see the return of the sacrifice is not for the forgiveness of sin and I agree we are under the new covenant and at the 2nd coming is when all of Israel is saved though 2/3 did not make it through the tribulation. The return of the sacrifice is the destiny of Israel accepting antichrist 1st. I have gone around the block with you on this so I will not engage in another endless debate. I hope some of you can see the hope as the tribulation is near. We should be wise servants either way and not divide as brother in the gospel even if we have heated disagreement on eschatology.

 

[BABerean2]

You see the LORD declares Israel will not cease to be a nation

What did Jesus say?

Mat 21:42　 Jesus said to them, "Have you never read in the Scriptures: 'THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REJECTED HAS BECOME THE CHIEF CORNERSTONE. THIS WAS THE LORD'S DOING, AND IT IS MARVELOUS IN OUR EYES' ?　
Mat 21:43　 "Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it.
　

What did Peter say?

Pe 2:4　 Coming to Him as to a living stone, rejected indeed by men, but chosen by God and precious,　
1Pe 2:5　 you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.　
1Pe 2:6　 Therefore it is also contained in the Scripture, "BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION A CHIEF CORNERSTONE, ELECT, PRECIOUS, AND HE WHO BELIEVES ON HIM WILL BY NO MEANS BE PUT TO SHAME."　
1Pe 2:7　 Therefore, to you who believe, He is precious; but to those who are disobedient, "THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REJECTED HAS BECOME THE CHIEF CORNERSTONE,"　
1Pe 2:8　 and "A STONE OF STUMBLING AND A ROCK OF OFFENSE." They stumble, being disobedient to the word, to which they also were appointed.　
1Pe 2:9　 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;　
1Pe 2:10　 who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy.　


You have replaced the children of the promise, with the children of the flesh in Romans 9:8.

The kingdom was taken from those who reject the "chief cornerstone" and it was given to another nation bearing fruit.

Peter tells us who that holy nation is who accepted the "chief cornerstone".

In Galatians 3:16 Paul reveals that the Abrahamic promise was made to the One Seed, instead of the many seeds. We find the Abrahamic promise in Matthew 1:1. He is the ultimate fulfillment of Israel.

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