What is the “one baptism” mentioned in Ephesians 4:5? (I have an answer, but I would like input).

[Guojing]

The problem: it ignores the great commission. Jesus is the one who baptizes with the Holy Spirit, not His disciples.

Are you aware that John 20:23 is also part of the Great commission?

Protestants have no problems ignoring that, correct?

 

[disciple Clint]

Are you aware that John 20:23 is also part of the Great commission?

Protestants have no problems ignoring that, correct?

Only God can forgive sins, and Christ, being God, has the power to do so as well, but He never communicated any such power to His disciples, nor did they ever assume any such power to themselves. The key to understanding the meaning of John 20:23 lies in the previous two verses: “Again Jesus said, ‘Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.’ And with that he breathed on them and said, ‘Receive the Holy Spirit.’” He sent them, as He is sending us, to bring the good news of the way to salvation and heaven to the whole world. Jesus was leaving the earth physically but promised God would be with them in the person of the Holy Spirit living in them. As they proclaimed the gospel, they could honestly tell people who believed in that message that their sins were forgiven, and they could honestly tell people that did not believe in the message that their sins were not forgiven and that they stand condemned in God’s eyes. Jesus said, “Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on him” (John 3:36). What is the correct interpretation of John 20:23? | GotQuestions.org

 

[Guojing]

Only God can forgive sins, and Christ, being God, has the power to do so as well, but He never communicated any such power to His disciples, nor did they ever assume any such power to themselves. The key to understanding the meaning of John 20:23 lies in the previous two verses: “Again Jesus said, ‘Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.’ And with that he breathed on them and said, ‘Receive the Holy Spirit.’” He sent them, as He is sending us, to bring the good news of the way to salvation and heaven to the whole world. Jesus was leaving the earth physically but promised God would be with them in the person of the Holy Spirit living in them. As they proclaimed the gospel, they could honestly tell people who believed in that message that their sins were forgiven, and they could honestly tell people that did not believe in the message that their sins were not forgiven and that they stand condemned in God’s eyes. Jesus said, “Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on him” (John 3:36). What is the correct interpretation of John 20:23? | GotQuestions.org

Can you see you already started off with what you want to believe in, and then you try to read that belief into John 20:23?

Why not read John 20:23 literally? Jesus said what he meant and meant what he said.

Remember how Jesus told the 12 that they will be sitting on 12 thrones and judging the 12 tribes of Israel? Is it that hard to understand John 20:23 literally, based on that promise?

 

[disciple Clint]

Can you see you already started off with what you want to believe in, and then you try to read that belief into John 20:23?

Why not read John 20:23 literally? Jesus said what he meant and meant what he said.

Remember how Jesus told the 12 that they will be sitting on 12 thrones and judging the 12 tribes of Israel? Is it that hard to understand John 20:23 literally, based on that promise?

Hard to understand, No it is not hard to understand, here is what it means.
Judging the twelve tribes of Israel - Jesus will be the Judge of quick and dead. He only is qualified for it, and the Father hath given all judgment to the Son, John 5:22. To be a judge denotes rank, authority, power. The ancient judges of Israel were people of distinguished courage, patriotism, honor, and valor. Hence, the word comes to denote not so much an actual exercise of the power of passing judgment, as the honor attached to the office; and as earthly kings have those around them dignified with honors and office - counselors and judges, so Christ says that his apostles will occupy the same relative station in the great day. They will be honored by him, and by all, as apostles, as having, in the face of persecution, left all; as having laid the foundations of his church, and endured all the persecutions of the world. Barnes' Notes on the Bible

 

[Guojing]

Hard to understand, No it is not hard to understand, here is what it means.
Judging the twelve tribes of Israel - Jesus will be the Judge of quick and dead. He only is qualified for it, and the Father hath given all judgment to the Son, John 5:22. To be a judge denotes rank, authority, power. The ancient judges of Israel were people of distinguished courage, patriotism, honor, and valor. Hence, the word comes to denote not so much an actual exercise of the power of passing judgment, as the honor attached to the office; and as earthly kings have those around them dignified with honors and office - counselors and judges, so Christ says that his apostles will occupy the same relative station in the great day. They will be honored by him, and by all, as apostles, as having, in the face of persecution, left all; as having laid the foundations of his church, and endured all the persecutions of the world. Barnes' Notes on the Bible

Alright then, John 20:23 is one verse that many Protestants aren't even aware its in their bible. And when they do, they don't want to read it literally, for very obvious reasons.

 

[disciple Clint]

Alright then, John 20:23 is one verse that many Protestants aren't even aware its in their bible. And when they do, they don't want to read it literally, for very obvious reasons.

I think I just disproved that theory.

 

[Guojing]

I think I just disproved that theory.

But you are not reading it literally.

 

[disciple Clint]

But you are not reading it literally.

No the problem is you are trying to make it mean something that it was not intended to mean, it should be absolutely clear that Jesus is the only judge, that is pointed out in several Scriptures.

 

[Guojing]

No the problem is you are trying to make it mean something that it was not intended to mean, it should be absolutely clear that Jesus is the only judge, that is pointed out in several Scriptures.

So Jesus was joking to his disciples there, is that what you are saying?

 

[disciple Clint]

So Jesus was joking to his disciples there, is that what you are saying?

read post #144

 

[Guojing]

read post #144

I prefer to rely on scripture rather than commentaries on scripture.

Thanks anyway, let's move on from this

 

[disciple Clint]

I prefer to rely on scripture rather than commentaries on scripture.

Thanks anyway, let's move on from this

excellent that way everyone can make up their own meaning for every Scripture, absolutely no reason to use scholars to try to find out what God intended when He composed the Bible.

 

[Butterball1]

I get your point now. IMO the original language was a bit confusing. But anyway, the idea that a person cannot be a disciple, a follower of Christ, unless he also is a "teacher" is an unusual POV.

Is it based solely upon an interpretation of that one verse? Or is it that either "disciple" or "teacher" is being interpreted in a way that most Christians do not?

Those who become disciples are also to be teachers per the great commission. The great comm. applies to all disciples. Those who have been taught have been commanded to take what they were taught (gospel) to the lost world.
Christ taught the Apostles, who in turn made disciples by teaching and those new disciples in turn teach others making more disciples. Thus Christianity is perpetuated through time till the end of the world by making disciples thru teaching for Christianity is a taught religion. If Christianity quit being taught by others (or self-taught) it would cease to be carried on for no one could become a Christian if he knows nothing about Christianity.

 

[Albion]

Those who become disciples are also to be teachers per the great commission.

That's not what the Great Commission says. In that passage it is clear that Christ was addressing (and commissioning) his APOSTLES to go forth and do all of that.

Christ taught the Apostles, who in turn made disciples by teaching and those new disciples in turn teach others making more disciples.

But not necessarily teachers as well. It is the case, and always has been, that some true believers, duly baptized, are not suited to be evangelists, but they are not denied their standing as followers of the Lord for that reason.

 

[Butterball1]

That's not what the Great Commission says. In that passage it is clear that Christ was addressing (and commissioning) his APOSTLES to go forth and do all of that.

If that's the case, then after all the Apostles died who would be left to take the gospel to the lost world, who would be left to carry out the great commission?

But not necessarily teachers as well. It is the case, and always has been, that some true believers, duly baptized, are not suited to be evangelists, but they are not denied their standing as followers of the Lord for that reason.

Teaching them (new converts/disciples) to observe all things (includes teaching the world) whatsoever I have commanded you:
The Apostles were to teach new converts what Christ had taught the Apostles. Christ taught the Aposltes to teach the gospel to the world. Therefore the Apostles were to teach their new converts to "observe all things" which includes teaching the gospel to the world. Thus Christianity is perpetuated thru all time until the end of the world by teaching.

 

[Albion]

If that's the case, then after all the Aposltes died who would be left to take the gospel to the lost world, who would be left to carry out the great comission?

Those believers who were called by the church to become evangelists, deacons, pastors, etc.

The history of Christianity shows us the wonderful work that missionaries and preachers have done through all the years since the founding of the Church. But that doesn't mean that every last member of the church is called to be one of those. The majority of baptized members have always been people who served the Lord in other ways.

 

[Butterball1]

Those believers who were called by the church to become evangelists, deacons, pastors, etc.

The history of Christianity shows us the wonderful work that missionaries and preachers have done through all the years since the founding of the Church. But that doesn't mean that every last member of the church is called to be one of those. The majority of baptized members have always been people who served the Lord in other ways.

Yes.....and evangelists, deacons and elders job is to teach ("apt to teach" 1 Timothy 3:2; 2 Timothy 2:24). So teaching as required by the great commission would NOT apply to just the Apostles but others as Phillip taught the eunuch. Any disciple can teach publicly or privately as in (Acts of the Apostles 18:26). All Christians "ought to be teachers" (Hebrews 5:12-14) which requires disciples to grow in understanding of the word so they can be teachers of the word.

 

[Albion]

Yes.....and evangelists, deacons and elders job is to teach ("apt to teach" 1 Timothy 3:2; 2 Timothy 2:24).

Yes. And that was why I brought them up. That is part of their calling.

You, however, were claiming that EVERY baptized Christian was supposed to do the same work as they (i.e. teaching). That's quite obviously not so and never has been so. I am beginning to think you may have misunderstood something I've been explaining, so I don't know what more can be done to get us on the same page with this.

 

[Guojing]

If that's the case, then after all the Apostles died who would be left to take the gospel to the lost world, who would be left to carry out the great commission?



Teaching them (new converts/disciples) to observe all things (includes teaching the world) whatsoever I have commanded you:
The Apostles were to teach new converts what Christ had taught the Apostles. Christ taught the Aposltes to teach the gospel to the world. Therefore the Apostles were to teach their new converts to "observe all things" which includes teaching the gospel to the world. Thus Christianity is perpetuated thru all time until the end of the world by teaching.

Does all things include the Law of Moses? (Matthew 5:17-19)?

 

[JAL]

I believe the “one baptism” mentioned in Ephesians 4:5 is Spirit baptism...I believe Peter was mistaken about baptism in Acts chapter 2

Peter delivered a magnificent Spirit-inspired speech and yet was mistaken? Maybe he was mistaken about all things? Have you seriously considered the possibility that maybe you've mistakenly bought into the wrong metaphysics?

The obvious tension here is that Scripture associates physical water (baptism) with a supernatural effect (cleansing us from sin). A physical metaphysics easily resolves/explains this tension. In the early church, the divine Word regularly assumed the physical form of Living Water replacing or permeating some of the baptismal water. Thus water baptism WAS an occasion of Spirit-baptism, and it DID perform some (incremental) measure of regeneration/sanctification (cleansing from sin).