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Featured What is so great about Lot?

Discussion in 'Christian Philosophy & Ethics' started by Emmylouwho, Oct 19, 2019.

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  1. Emmylouwho

    Emmylouwho Well-Known Member

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    We know that he offered his virgin daughters to rapists. And then had sex with them, resulting in pregnancies. Why did God find him righteous?
     
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  2. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

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    i believe that it was for Abraham's sake.

    (I found Lot to be quite abominable, especially when he offered his daughter's to the men outside his house. In addition he was married to a wife that had no regard for the living God, and he STAYED there in that sin-drenched city.)
     
  3. devin553344

    devin553344 I believe in the Resurrection

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    Some sins are created by a persons environment. This is why God is the judge and the only one worthy to be judge. He knows what we've been forced into by our environment. And what is of our own free will and choice.

    And BTW Lot was raped by his daughters if you read it correctly.

    I think we also have to remember that Lot gave up everything to follow the Lords command.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2019
  4. packermann

    packermann Junior Member

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    We only know about Lot by what is recorded. But there can be more than this in Jewish oral tradition.
     
  5. packermann

    packermann Junior Member

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  6. JackRT

    JackRT Flat earther waking up ... Supporter

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    Ezekiel 16:9 -- "Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy
     
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  7. miggles

    miggles miggles

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    i think lot was noble. he offered his daughters because the mob outside wanted to have homosexual relations with his male guests. this would be unsightly to God.
     
  8. bekkilyn

    bekkilyn Contemplative Christian Supporter

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    And I suppose rape is perfectly fine and dandy with God provided it takes place between a man and a woman?

    There isn't much of anything Lot has done in any of the stories he's in that has been particularly noble or good. He was spared for the sake of Abraham.
     
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  9. Mathetes66

    Mathetes66 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You are greatly assuming things here that are not true. 'We' know is making a statement for others than just yourself. You can only speak from your personal opinion & cannot speak for others. You are making unrighteous JUDGMENTS on a man GOD HIMSELF SAID WAS RIGHTEOUS. Your problem is not with Lot, your problem is with God, making Him out to be a liar & bearing false witness, breaking a commandment of God & being guilty before Him.

    You don't seem to understand the cultural reasons in that time era & customs when Job offered his daughters. If you saw the movie about US soldiers being protected by a Muslim host & even fighting the soldiers' enemies, which were Muslim also, risking their own lives, for soldiers not believing in Allah, then you will begin to understand the cultural customs about protecting those under your roof & in your hospitable care. Had you understood this & actually read the account in Genesis 19, you can see this to be true.

    All the men, young & old, didn't care about the daughters, they only wanted to have sex with the men. They were desiring violent homosexual rape, which Lot described as 'wicked' & not do so such a thing.

    Genesis 19:2-9 My lords, please turn aside into the house of your servant; wash your feet & spend the night. Then you can rise early & go on your way.” "No,” they answered, “we will spend the night in the square.”

    3But Lot insisted SO STRONGLY that they followed him into his house. He PREPARED A FEAST FOR THEM & baked UNLEAVENED bread & they ate.

    4Before they had gone to bed, all the men of the city of Sodom, BOTH young & old, surrounded the house. They called out to Lot, saying, “Where are the MEN who came to you tonight? Send them out to us so we can have relations with them!”

    6Lot went outside to meet them & shut the door behind him. “Please, my brothers,” he pleaded, “don’t do such a WICKED thing! Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them to you & you can do to them whatever you want. But do not do anything to these men, BECAUSE THEY HAVE COME UNDER THE PROTECTION OF MY ROOF.”

    9“Get out of the way!” they replied. And they declared, “This one came here as a foreigner & he is already acting like a judge! Now WE WILL TREAT YOU WORSE THAN THEM.” And they pressed in on Lot & moved in to break down the door.

    Lot tried to protect them since they had come under his roof. The angels ended up in protecting Lot & his family. God is merciful.

    You also bear false witness AGAINST Job by saying he had sex with his daughters. He didn't WILLINGLY have sex with his daughters. He is righteous as God said. His daughters tricked & deceived their father & HE WAS NOT AWARE THAT IT HAPPENED BEING SO DRUNK.

    Again IF you had read the TEXT of Scripture, the true God-breathed out words of the LORD, you wouldn't have come to your erroneous conclusions.

    Gen 19:31-38 One day the older daughter said to the younger, “Our father is old, & there is no man in the land to SLEEP with us, as is THE CUSTOM over all the earth. Come, let us get our father drunk with wine, so that we can sleep with him & preserve his line.”

    33So that night they got their father drunk with wine & the firstborn came & slept with her father; HE WAS NOT AWARE WHEN SHE LAY DOWN NOR WHEN SHE GOT UP.

    34The next day the older daughter said to the younger, “Look, I slept with my father last night. Let us get him drunk with wine again tonight, so you can go sleep with him & we can preserve our father’s line.”

    35So again that night THEY GOT THEIR FATHER DRUNK with wine & the younger daughter went & slept with him; he was NOT aware when she lay down or when she got up.

    36Thus both of Lot’s daughters became pregnant by their father. 37The older daughter gave birth to a son & named him Moab. He is the father of the Moabites of today. The younger daughter also gave birth to a son & she named him Ben-ammi. He is the father of the Ammonites of today.

    As we can see Job was not aware of his daughters committing incest & actually raping him while he was incapacitated & unaware. They also were following the pagan customs in which they lived, which had men sleep with women, as opposed to getting married & having children as husband & wife, as God commanded.

    If you also see the resultant offspring & the nations they developed into, you will see that the Ammonites were some of the wickedest pagan people at that time.

    2 Peter 2:6-9 If He condemned the cities of Sodom & Gomorrah to destruction, reducing them to ashes as an example of what is coming on the ungodly; and delivered righteous Lot, who was oppressed by the filthy conduct of the wicked. Yes, Lot was a righteous man who was tormented in his soul by the wickedness he saw & heard day after day. If all this is true, then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials & to hold the unrighteous for punishment on the day of judgment.

    Who were the Ammonites? | GotQuestions.org


    Ligonier Ministries
     
  10. JackRT

    JackRT Flat earther waking up ... Supporter

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    This story emerges out of an ancient patriarchal society in which women were not much more than slaves to father or husband and Lot treats them exactly this way. This is an incredibly ugly story and I consider Lot's behaviour to be completely despicable, he treats his daughters as subhuman.

    When I consider 'Sodomy' in both it’s biblical and historical contexts, it is obviously referring to homosexual rape. Like any other form of rape, sodomy has nothing whatsoever to do with the love of two people for each other. This is equally true of heterosexual rape and heterosexual love --- there is no connection whatsoever.


    The sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was in the breaking of the law of hospitality. The xenophobic townsmen sought to humiliate the strangers by treating them as women. Homosexual rape has been used for millenia to intimidate and humiliate and still occurs today. All this has nothing whatsoever to do with homosexual orientation or homosexual love.
     
  11. PloverWing

    PloverWing Episcopalian

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    I don't think God did find him righteous. When Abraham argues with God about Sodom, he argues God down to 10 people: if there are 10 righteous people in the city, God agrees to spare the city. We don't know how big Lot's household was, but with Lot, his wife, his daughters, whatever household servants they had, it might well have come to 10 people. Yet the city was destroyed.

    As others have noted, Lot seems to have been spared for Abraham's sake, but I don't see Genesis commending him for being righteous.
     
  12. David Neos

    David Neos Catechumen

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    If he was the only one took from Sodom (along with his family) then God found him just
     
  13. Emmylouwho

    Emmylouwho Well-Known Member

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  14. Emmylouwho

    Emmylouwho Well-Known Member

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    Would you offer your daughters to rapists ?
     
  15. Emmylouwho

    Emmylouwho Well-Known Member

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    So, God saw Lot as the lesser sinner in a city of super sinners?
     
  16. packermann

    packermann Junior Member

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    The Bible says he is righteous.

    and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the depraved conduct of the lawless
    2 Peter 2:7
     
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  17. Emmylouwho

    Emmylouwho Well-Known Member

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    If men wanted to rape your male guests, would you offer your daughter to the rapists? Do you have daughters?
     
  18. Emmylouwho

    Emmylouwho Well-Known Member

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    Abraham, a man willing to kill his son. Good call.
     
  19. David Neos

    David Neos Catechumen

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    Yeah, he trusted the promises of God. Do you think faith is just saying "Jezusss! I love you!!"
     
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  20. Emmylouwho

    Emmylouwho Well-Known Member

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    I’m more of a golden rule follower. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. That seems to suffice.
     
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