What is single Predestination?

[Andrewn]

What is single Predestination? Does it make sense?

 

[Albion]

God chose his Elect and left the rest on their own.

Practically speaking, this may not change a thing as far as the individual is concerned, certainly not for those Christians who believe we cannot turn ourselves to God without his grace making that possible, but it does alter our view of God's workings.

 

[Of the Kingdom]

A proposed explanation:

Single predestination could mean that God chooses some to unconditionally be saved, while not preventing any from being saved. Thus, God supposedly does not decree condemnation for anyone.

Predestination is a biblical fact. The KJV says, if I recall it correctly, that He "predestines those He foreknew" -- presumably to salvation. Some say He chose then *because* He foreknew them. It could be that He foreknew them because He chose them.

 

[Andrewn]

Single predestination could mean that God chooses some to unconditionally be saved, while not preventing any from being saved.

Does this mean that some people who are saved are predestined while others who are also saved are not predestined?

Does "irresistible grace' have a role in this?

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Does this mean that some people who are saved are predestined while others who are also saved are not predestined?

Does "irresistible grace' come into play in this?

Predestination means God has chosen His elect for salvation from the foundation of the world.

Double Predestination is God has chosen His elect for salvation and the rest for damnation.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Of the Kingdom]

I'm trying not to advocate for a particular point of view. Arminians generally assume all can choose for or against Jesus, and some Calvinists assume no one can choose.

When there are two fairly extreme positions, I expect the truth to lie somewhere in between. I'm still studying about that.

I do know that no one can choose Jesus unless the Holy Spirit draws them. If God draws all of us, then it would appear that all could choose, and perhaps you could argue that it would be *as if* all could choose freely.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

I'm trying not to advocate for a particular point of view. Arminians generally assume all can choose for or against Jesus, and some Calvinists assume no one can choose.

When there are two fairly extreme positions, I expect the truth to lie somewhere in between. I'm still studying about that.

I do know that no one can choose Jesus unless the Holy Spirit draws them. If God draws all of us, then it would appear that all could choose, and perhaps you could argue that it would be *as if* all could choose freely.

Jesus said in John 15 to His Disciples that You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you

And read these passages:

Romans 8:29-30
For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.


Romans 9:22-23
"What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory"

Ephesians 1:3-6
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved."

1 Thessalonians 5:9
"For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ," -

John 17:9
"I am praying for them. I am not praying for the world but for those whom you have given me, for they are yours."

John 6:64-65
But there are some of you who do not believe." (For Jesus knew from the beginning who those were who did not believe, and who it was who would betray him.) And he said, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father." -

John 8:47
"Whoever is of God hears the words of God. The reason why you do not hear them is that you are not of God." -

Jude 1:4
"For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ." -

1 Peter 2:8
"and 'A stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense.' They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do." -

Romans 11:5-7
"So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace. But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace. What then? Israel failed to obtain what it was seeking. The elect obtained it, but the rest were hardened" -

 

[Albion]

I'm trying not to advocate for a particular point of view. Arminians generally assume all can choose for or against Jesus, and some Calvinists assume no one can choose.

You're right not to fence anyone out of the issue. The Arminian explanation would be different from the orthodox Calvinist one as concerns those persons not included among the Elect.

If God does predestine some people to salvation, it leaves open the question about the others. Some Christians would say they are necessarily lost but others would argue that this is not the case--and that POV does not amount to a claim that they can save themselves.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Does this mean that some people who are saved are predestined while others who are also saved are not predestined?

My understanding is if you aren't predestined, you are out of luck, and no, it doen't make sense because the following says "whosoever" can be saved.

John 3:16

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

My understanding is if you aren't predestined, you are out of luck, and no, it doen't make sense because the following says "whosoever" can be saved.

John 3:16

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

In the Greek Lexicons kosmos(world) has 8 various meanings. so John 3:16 is not as cut and dry as most people assume and this one single verse in isolation gets ripped from its context more so than all other scriptures combined.

in the context Jesus is speaking one on one at night with Nicodemus ( the teacher of the Jews). Jews at that time knew salvation and Gods favor was upon the Jews but that was to change very soon as we read later on in the gospel to include the gentiles. So world and one of its meanings is the gentiles or non jews. Everyone already knew God loved Israel/Jews.

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 2889: κόσμος

κόσμος, κόσμου, ὁ;
1. in Greek writings from Homer down, an apt and harmonious arrangement or constitution, or der.

2. as in Greek writings from Homer down, ornament, decoration, adornment: ἐνδύσεως ἱματίων, 1 Peter 3:3 (Sir. 6:30 Sir. 21:21; 2 Macc. 2:2; the Sept. for צָבָא of the arrangement of the stars, 'the heavenly hosts,' as the ornament of the heavens, Genesis 2:1; Deuteronomy 4:19; Deuteronomy 17:8; Isaiah 24:21; Isaiah 40:26; besides occasionally for עֲדִי; twice for תִּפְאֶרֶת, Proverbs 20:29; Isaiah 3:19).

3. the world, i. e. the universe (quem κόσμονGraeci nomine ornamenti appellarunt, eum nos a perfecta absolutaque elegantia mundum, Pliny, h. n. 2, 3; in which sense Pythagoras is said to have been the first to use the word, Plutarch, de plac. philos. 2, 1, 1, p. 886 c.; but according to other accounts he used it of the heavens, (Diogenes Laërtius 8, 48, of which it is used several times also by other Greek writers (see Menag. on (Diogenes Laërtius, the passage cited; Bentley, Epistles of Phalaris, vol. i., 391 (Lond. 1886); M. Anton. 4, 27 and Gataker's notes; cf. Liddell and Scott, under the word, IV.)): Acts 17:24; Romans 4:13 (where cf. Meyer, Tholuck, Philippi); 1 Corinthians 3:22; 1 Corinthians 8:4; Philippians 2:15; with a predominant notion of space, in hyperbole, John 21:25 (Wis. 7:17 Wis. 9:3; 2 Macc. 8:18; κτίζειν τόν κόσμον, Wis. 11:18; ὁ τοῦ κόσμου κτίστης, 2 Macc. 7:23; 4 Macc. 5:25 (24); — a sense in which it does not occur in the other O. T. books, although there is something akin to it in Proverbs 17:6, on which see 8 below); in the phrases πρό τοῦ τόν κόσμον εἶναι, John 17:5; ἀπό καταβολῆς κόσμου (Matthew 13:35 R G; ; Luke 11:50; Hebrews 4:3; Hebrews 9:26; Revelation 13:8; Revelation 17:8) and πρό καταβολῆς κόσμου (John 17:21; Ephesians 1:4; 1 Peter 1:20) (on which see καταβολή, 2); ἀπό κτίσεως κόσμου, Romans 1:20; ἀπ' ἀρχῆς κόσμου, Matthew 24:21; (on the omission of the article, cf. Winers Grammar, p. 123 (117); Buttmann, § 124, 8 b.; (cf. Ellicott on Galatians, 6:14)).

4. the circle of the earth, the earth (very rarely so in Greek writings until after the age of the Ptolemies; so in Boeckh, Corpus inscriptions i., pp. 413 and 643, nos. 334 and 1306): Mark 16:15; (John 12:25); 1 Timothy 6:7; βασιλεία τοῦ κόσμου, Revelation 11:15; βασιλεῖαι (plural) τοῦ κόσμου, Matthew 4:8 (for which Luke 4:5 τῆς οἰκουμένης); τό φῶς τοῦ κόσμου τούτου, of the sun, John 11:9; ἐν ὅλῳ τῷ κόσμῳ, properly, Matthew 26:13; hyperbolically, equivalent to far and wide, in widely separated places, Romans 1:8; (so ἐν παντί τῷ κόσμῳ, Colossians 1:6); ὁ τότε κόσμος, 2 Peter 3:6; the earth with its inhabitants: ζῆν ἐν κόσμῳ, opposed to the dead, Colossians 2:20 (λῃστής ἦν καί κλέπτης ἐν τῷ κόσμῳ, i. e. among those living on earth, Ev. Nicod. 26). By a usage foreign to secular authors,

5. the inhabitants of the world: θέατρον ἐγενήθημεν τῷ κόσμῳ καί ἀγγέλοις καί ἀνθρώποις, 1 Corinthians 4:9 (Winers Grammar, 127 (121)); particularly the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human race (first so in Sap. (e. g. )): Matthew 13:38; Matthew 18:7; Mark 14:9; John 1:10, 29 ( L in brackets); ; Romans 3:6, 19; 1 Corinthians 1:27f (cf. Winer's Grammar, 189 (178)); ; 2 Corinthians 5:19; James 2:5 (cf. Winer's Grammar, as above); 1 John 2:2 (cf. Winer's Grammar, 577 (536)); ἀρχαῖος κόσμος, of the antediluvians, 2 Peter 2:5; γέννασθαι εἰς τόν κόσμον, John 16:21; ἔρχεσθαι εἰς τόν κόσμον (John 9:39) and εἰς τόν κόσμον τοῦτον, to make its appearance or come into existence among men, spoken of the light which in Christ shone upon men, John 1:9; John 3:19, cf. 12:46; of the Messiah, John 6:14; John 11:27; of Jesus as the Messiah, John 9:39; John 16:28; John 18:37; 1 Timothy 1:15; also ἐισέρχεσθαι εἰς τόν κόσμον, Hebrews 10:5; of false teachers, 2 John 1:7 (yet here L T Tr WH ἐξέρχεσθαι εἰς τόν κόσμον; (so all texts in 1 John 4:1)); to invade, of evils coming into existence among men and beginning to exert their power: of sin and death, Romans 5:12 (of death, Wis. 2:24; Clement of Rome, 1 Cor. 3, 4 [ET]; of idolatry, Wis. 14:14). ἀποστέλλειν τινα εἰς τόν κόσμον, John 3:17; John 10:36; John 17:18; 1 John 4:9; φῶς τοῦ κόσμου, Matthew 5:14; John 8:12; John 9:5; σωτήρ τοῦ κόσμου, John 4:42; 1 John 4:14 (σωτηρία τοῦ κόσμου Wis. 6:26 (25); ἐλπίς τοῦ κόσμου, Wis. 14:6; πρωτόπλαστος πατήρ τοῦ κόσμου, of Adam, Wis. 10:1); στοιχεῖα τοῦ κόσμου (see στοιχεῖον, 3 and 4); ἐν τῷ κόσμῳ, among men, John 16:33; John 17:13; Ephesians 2:12; ἐν κόσμῳ (see Winer's Grammar, 123 (117)), 1 Timothy 3:16; εἶναι ἐν τῷ κόσμου, to dwell among men, John 1:10; John 9:5; John 17:11, 12 R G; 1 John 4:3; εἶναι ἐν κόσμῳ, to be present, Romans 5:13; ἐξελθεῖν, ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου, to withdraw from human society and seek an abode outside of it, 1 Corinthians 5:10; ἀναστρέφεσθαι ἐν τῷ κόσμῳ, to behave oneself, 2 Corinthians 1:12; likewise εἶναι ἐν τῷ κόσμου τούτῳ, 1 John 4:17. used specifically of the Gentiles collectively, Romans 11:12 (where it alternates with τά ἔθνη), 15; (the two in combination: τά ἔθνη τοῦ κόσμου, Luke 12:30). hyperbolically or loosely equivalent to the majority of men in a place, the multitude or mass (as we say the public): John 7:4; John 12:19 (here Tr marginal reading adds ὅλος, in brackets); . equivalent to the entire number, ἀσεβῶν, 2 Peter 2:5.

6. "the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ" (cf. Winer's Grammar, 26): John 7:7; John 14:27 (); ; 1 Corinthians 1:21; 1 Corinthians 6:2; 1 Corinthians 11:32; 2 Corinthians 7:10; James 1:27; 1 Peter 5:9; 2 Peter 1:4; 2 Peter 2:20; 1 John 3:1, 13; 1 John 4:5; 1 John 5:19; of the aggregate of ungodly and wicked men in O. T. times, Hebrews 11:38; in Noah's time, ibid. 7; with οὗτος added, Ephesians 2:2 (on which see αἰών, 3); εἶναι ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου and ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου τούτου (see εἰμί, V. 3rd.), John 8:23; John 15:19; John 17:14, 16; 1 John 4:5; λαλεῖν ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου, to speak in accordance with the world's character and mode of thinking, 1 John 4:5; ὁ ἄρχων τοῦ κόσμου τούτου, i. e. the devil, John 12:31; John 14:30; John 16:11; ὁ ἐν τῷ κόσμῳ he that is operative in the world (also of the devil), 1 John 4:4; τό πνεῦμα τοῦ κόσμου 1 Corinthians 2:12; ἡ σοφία τοῦ κόσμου τούτου, 1 Corinthians 1:20 (here G L T Tr WH omit τούτου); 1 Corinthians 3:19. (τά στοιχεῖα τοῦ κόσμου, Galatians 4:3; Colossians 2:8, 20 (see 5 above, and στοιχεῖον, 3 and 4).)

7. "worldly affairs; the aggregate of things earthly; the whole circle of earthly goods, endowments, riches, advantages, pleasures, etc., which, although hollow and frail and fleeting, stir desire, seduce from God and are obstacles to the cause of Christ": Galatians 6:14; 1 John 2:16; 1 John 3:17; εἶναι ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου, to be of earthly origin and nature, John 18:36; somewhat differently in 1 John 2:16 (on which see εἰμί, V. 3 d.); κερδαίνειν τόν κόσμον ὅλον, Matthew 16:26; Mark 8:36; Luke 9:25; οἱ χρώμενοι τῷ κόσμῳ τούτῳ (critical text τόν κόσμον; see χράομαι, 2), 1 Corinthians 7:31a; μέριμναν τά τοῦ κόσμου, 33f; φίλος and φιλία τοῦ κόσμου, James 4:4; ἀγαπᾶν τόν κόσμον, 1 John 2:15; νικαν τόν κόσμον, the incentives to sin proceeding from the world, 1 John 5:4f; the obstacles to God's cause, John 16:33; (cf. ἐλθέτω χάρις καί παρελθέτω ὁ κόσμος οὗτος, Teaching of the Twelve Apostles,

c. 10 [ET]).

8. any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort (cf. English a world of curses (Shakspere), etc.): ὁ κόσμος τῆς ἀδικίας, the sum of all iniquities, James 3:6; τοῦ πιστοῦ ὅλος ὁ κόσμος τῶν χρημάτων, τοῦ δέ ἀπίστου οὐδέ ὀβολός (a statement due to the Alex. translators), Proverbs 17:6. Among the N. T. writers no one uses κόσμος oftener than John; it occurs in Mark three times, in Luke's writings four times, and in the Apocalypse three tinms. Cf. Kreiss, Sur le sens du mot κόσμος dans le N. T. (Strasb. 1837); Düsterdieck on 1 John 2:15, pp. 247-259; Zezschwitz, Profangräcität u. Biblical Sprachgeist, p. 21ff; Diestel in Herzog xvii., p. 676ff; (Trench, Synonyms, § lix.); on John's use of the word cf. Reuss, Histoire de la theologie chretienne au siecle apostolique, ii., p. 463ff (i. e. livre 7 chapter viii.); cf. his Johanneische Theologie, in the Beiträge zu den theol. Wissenschaften, Fasc. i., p. 29ff; (Westcott on John 1:10, 'Additional Note').

hope this helps !!!

 

[Andrewn]

hope this helps !!!

Helps with what? Single predestination?

 

[Kenny'sID]

In the Greek Lexicons kosmos(world) has 8 various meanings. so John 3:16 is not as cut and dry as most people assume and this one single verse in isolation gets ripped from its context more so than all other scriptures combined.

in the context Jesus is speaking one on one at night with Nicodemus ( the teacher of the Jews). Jews at that time knew salvation and Gods favor was upon the Jews but that was to change very soon as we read later on in the gospel to include the gentiles. So world and one of its meanings is the gentiles or non jews. Everyone already knew God loved Israel/Jews.

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 2889: κόσμος

κόσμος, κόσμου, ὁ;
1. in Greek writings from Homer down, an apt and harmonious arrangement or constitution, or der.

2. as in Greek writings from Homer down, ornament, decoration, adornment: ἐνδύσεως ἱματίων, 1 Peter 3:3 (Sir. 6:30 Sir. 21:21; 2 Macc. 2:2; the Sept. for צָבָא of the arrangement of the stars, 'the heavenly hosts,' as the ornament of the heavens, Genesis 2:1; Deuteronomy 4:19; Deuteronomy 17:8; Isaiah 24:21; Isaiah 40:26; besides occasionally for עֲדִי; twice for תִּפְאֶרֶת, Proverbs 20:29; Isaiah 3:19).

3. the world, i. e. the universe (quem κόσμονGraeci nomine ornamenti appellarunt, eum nos a perfecta absolutaque elegantia mundum, Pliny, h. n. 2, 3; in which sense Pythagoras is said to have been the first to use the word, Plutarch, de plac. philos. 2, 1, 1, p. 886 c.; but according to other accounts he used it of the heavens, (Diogenes Laërtius 8, 48, of which it is used several times also by other Greek writers (see Menag. on (Diogenes Laërtius, the passage cited; Bentley, Epistles of Phalaris, vol. i., 391 (Lond. 1886); M. Anton. 4, 27 and Gataker's notes; cf. Liddell and Scott, under the word, IV.)): Acts 17:24; Romans 4:13 (where cf. Meyer, Tholuck, Philippi); 1 Corinthians 3:22; 1 Corinthians 8:4; Philippians 2:15; with a predominant notion of space, in hyperbole, John 21:25 (Wis. 7:17 Wis. 9:3; 2 Macc. 8:18; κτίζειν τόν κόσμον, Wis. 11:18; ὁ τοῦ κόσμου κτίστης, 2 Macc. 7:23; 4 Macc. 5:25 (24); — a sense in which it does not occur in the other O. T. books, although there is something akin to it in Proverbs 17:6, on which see 8 below); in the phrases πρό τοῦ τόν κόσμον εἶναι, John 17:5; ἀπό καταβολῆς κόσμου (Matthew 13:35 R G; ; Luke 11:50; Hebrews 4:3; Hebrews 9:26; Revelation 13:8; Revelation 17:8) and πρό καταβολῆς κόσμου (John 17:21; Ephesians 1:4; 1 Peter 1:20) (on which see καταβολή, 2); ἀπό κτίσεως κόσμου, Romans 1:20; ἀπ' ἀρχῆς κόσμου, Matthew 24:21; (on the omission of the article, cf. Winers Grammar, p. 123 (117); Buttmann, § 124, 8 b.; (cf. Ellicott on Galatians, 6:14)).

4. the circle of the earth, the earth (very rarely so in Greek writings until after the age of the Ptolemies; so in Boeckh, Corpus inscriptions i., pp. 413 and 643, nos. 334 and 1306): Mark 16:15; (John 12:25); 1 Timothy 6:7; βασιλεία τοῦ κόσμου, Revelation 11:15; βασιλεῖαι (plural) τοῦ κόσμου, Matthew 4:8 (for which Luke 4:5 τῆς οἰκουμένης); τό φῶς τοῦ κόσμου τούτου, of the sun, John 11:9; ἐν ὅλῳ τῷ κόσμῳ, properly, Matthew 26:13; hyperbolically, equivalent to far and wide, in widely separated places, Romans 1:8; (so ἐν παντί τῷ κόσμῳ, Colossians 1:6); ὁ τότε κόσμος, 2 Peter 3:6; the earth with its inhabitants: ζῆν ἐν κόσμῳ, opposed to the dead, Colossians 2:20 (λῃστής ἦν καί κλέπτης ἐν τῷ κόσμῳ, i. e. among those living on earth, Ev. Nicod. 26). By a usage foreign to secular authors,

5. the inhabitants of the world: θέατρον ἐγενήθημεν τῷ κόσμῳ καί ἀγγέλοις καί ἀνθρώποις, 1 Corinthians 4:9 (Winers Grammar, 127 (121)); particularly the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human race (first so in Sap. (e. g. )): Matthew 13:38; Matthew 18:7; Mark 14:9; John 1:10, 29 ( L in brackets); ; Romans 3:6, 19; 1 Corinthians 1:27f (cf. Winer's Grammar, 189 (178)); ; 2 Corinthians 5:19; James 2:5 (cf. Winer's Grammar, as above); 1 John 2:2 (cf. Winer's Grammar, 577 (536)); ἀρχαῖος κόσμος, of the antediluvians, 2 Peter 2:5; γέννασθαι εἰς τόν κόσμον, John 16:21; ἔρχεσθαι εἰς τόν κόσμον (John 9:39) and εἰς τόν κόσμον τοῦτον, to make its appearance or come into existence among men, spoken of the light which in Christ shone upon men, John 1:9; John 3:19, cf. 12:46; of the Messiah, John 6:14; John 11:27; of Jesus as the Messiah, John 9:39; John 16:28; John 18:37; 1 Timothy 1:15; also ἐισέρχεσθαι εἰς τόν κόσμον, Hebrews 10:5; of false teachers, 2 John 1:7 (yet here L T Tr WH ἐξέρχεσθαι εἰς τόν κόσμον; (so all texts in 1 John 4:1)); to invade, of evils coming into existence among men and beginning to exert their power: of sin and death, Romans 5:12 (of death, Wis. 2:24; Clement of Rome, 1 Cor. 3, 4 [ET]; of idolatry, Wis. 14:14). ἀποστέλλειν τινα εἰς τόν κόσμον, John 3:17; John 10:36; John 17:18; 1 John 4:9; φῶς τοῦ κόσμου, Matthew 5:14; John 8:12; John 9:5; σωτήρ τοῦ κόσμου, John 4:42; 1 John 4:14 (σωτηρία τοῦ κόσμου Wis. 6:26 (25); ἐλπίς τοῦ κόσμου, Wis. 14:6; πρωτόπλαστος πατήρ τοῦ κόσμου, of Adam, Wis. 10:1); στοιχεῖα τοῦ κόσμου (see στοιχεῖον, 3 and 4); ἐν τῷ κόσμῳ, among men, John 16:33; John 17:13; Ephesians 2:12; ἐν κόσμῳ (see Winer's Grammar, 123 (117)), 1 Timothy 3:16; εἶναι ἐν τῷ κόσμου, to dwell among men, John 1:10; John 9:5; John 17:11, 12 R G; 1 John 4:3; εἶναι ἐν κόσμῳ, to be present, Romans 5:13; ἐξελθεῖν, ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου, to withdraw from human society and seek an abode outside of it, 1 Corinthians 5:10; ἀναστρέφεσθαι ἐν τῷ κόσμῳ, to behave oneself, 2 Corinthians 1:12; likewise εἶναι ἐν τῷ κόσμου τούτῳ, 1 John 4:17. used specifically of the Gentiles collectively, Romans 11:12 (where it alternates with τά ἔθνη), 15; (the two in combination: τά ἔθνη τοῦ κόσμου, Luke 12:30). hyperbolically or loosely equivalent to the majority of men in a place, the multitude or mass (as we say the public): John 7:4; John 12:19 (here Tr marginal reading adds ὅλος, in brackets); . equivalent to the entire number, ἀσεβῶν, 2 Peter 2:5.

6. "the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ" (cf. Winer's Grammar, 26): John 7:7; John 14:27 (); ; 1 Corinthians 1:21; 1 Corinthians 6:2; 1 Corinthians 11:32; 2 Corinthians 7:10; James 1:27; 1 Peter 5:9; 2 Peter 1:4; 2 Peter 2:20; 1 John 3:1, 13; 1 John 4:5; 1 John 5:19; of the aggregate of ungodly and wicked men in O. T. times, Hebrews 11:38; in Noah's time, ibid. 7; with οὗτος added, Ephesians 2:2 (on which see αἰών, 3); εἶναι ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου and ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου τούτου (see εἰμί, V. 3rd.), John 8:23; John 15:19; John 17:14, 16; 1 John 4:5; λαλεῖν ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου, to speak in accordance with the world's character and mode of thinking, 1 John 4:5; ὁ ἄρχων τοῦ κόσμου τούτου, i. e. the devil, John 12:31; John 14:30; John 16:11; ὁ ἐν τῷ κόσμῳ he that is operative in the world (also of the devil), 1 John 4:4; τό πνεῦμα τοῦ κόσμου 1 Corinthians 2:12; ἡ σοφία τοῦ κόσμου τούτου, 1 Corinthians 1:20 (here G L T Tr WH omit τούτου); 1 Corinthians 3:19. (τά στοιχεῖα τοῦ κόσμου, Galatians 4:3; Colossians 2:8, 20 (see 5 above, and στοιχεῖον, 3 and 4).)

7. "worldly affairs; the aggregate of things earthly; the whole circle of earthly goods, endowments, riches, advantages, pleasures, etc., which, although hollow and frail and fleeting, stir desire, seduce from God and are obstacles to the cause of Christ": Galatians 6:14; 1 John 2:16; 1 John 3:17; εἶναι ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου, to be of earthly origin and nature, John 18:36; somewhat differently in 1 John 2:16 (on which see εἰμί, V. 3 d.); κερδαίνειν τόν κόσμον ὅλον, Matthew 16:26; Mark 8:36; Luke 9:25; οἱ χρώμενοι τῷ κόσμῳ τούτῳ (critical text τόν κόσμον; see χράομαι, 2), 1 Corinthians 7:31a; μέριμναν τά τοῦ κόσμου, 33f; φίλος and φιλία τοῦ κόσμου, James 4:4; ἀγαπᾶν τόν κόσμον, 1 John 2:15; νικαν τόν κόσμον, the incentives to sin proceeding from the world, 1 John 5:4f; the obstacles to God's cause, John 16:33; (cf. ἐλθέτω χάρις καί παρελθέτω ὁ κόσμος οὗτος, Teaching of the Twelve Apostles,

c. 10 [ET]).

8. any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort (cf. English a world of curses (Shakspere), etc.): ὁ κόσμος τῆς ἀδικίας, the sum of all iniquities, James 3:6; τοῦ πιστοῦ ὅλος ὁ κόσμος τῶν χρημάτων, τοῦ δέ ἀπίστου οὐδέ ὀβολός (a statement due to the Alex. translators), Proverbs 17:6. Among the N. T. writers no one uses κόσμος oftener than John; it occurs in Mark three times, in Luke's writings four times, and in the Apocalypse three tinms. Cf. Kreiss, Sur le sens du mot κόσμος dans le N. T. (Strasb. 1837); Düsterdieck on 1 John 2:15, pp. 247-259; Zezschwitz, Profangräcität u. Biblical Sprachgeist, p. 21ff; Diestel in Herzog xvii., p. 676ff; (Trench, Synonyms, § lix.); on John's use of the word cf. Reuss, Histoire de la theologie chretienne au siecle apostolique, ii., p. 463ff (i. e. livre 7 chapter viii.); cf. his Johanneische Theologie, in the Beiträge zu den theol. Wissenschaften, Fasc. i., p. 29ff; (Westcott on John 1:10, 'Additional Note').

hope this helps !!!

Please forgive me if I don't read all that, but I will ask, are you saying "whosoever" is not everyone and if not what exactly does it mean in the context of John 3:16?

Also, does it really take all that you wrote there to explain? Or is there something short among that which proves your point? And that's assuming your point was it means something other that what I think it means.

Also, are you Calvinist?

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Helps with what? Single predestination?

What do you want to know about predestination or double P ?

 

[mlepfitjw]

Never heard of single predestination. The only thing that I notice when reading the Bible that are in the New Testament are the introductions.

One in particular is 1 Peter 1:1-3, which talks about the Elected exiles scattered aboard, and another one in Romans 1:1-5 (hopefully that is it cause I don’t have a Bible in front of me) that talks about all the saints in Rome.

Of course as a man and my view could be wrong is those people being wrote to where the chosen people God ordained by foreknowledge. They are probably the ones predestined that are mentioned in the Bible.

However with my view of the Bible being fulfilled from ever side, the Elect or prehaps the Yeshuas Bride has done been retrieved.

Which means we live in an Age of fulfillment and the grace of God is among all people to have choice of freedom again just like Adam and Eve has at the very start, we live in like an Edenic state.

Where we can choose to have relationship with God or to reject Him by choice.

 

[Andrewn]

God chose his Elect and left the rest on their own.

Practically speaking, this may not change a thing as far as the individual is concerned, certainly not for those Christians who believe we cannot turn ourselves to God without his grace making that possible, but it does alter our view of God's workings.

Do you mean that Lutheran (or Augustinian) single Predestination effectively leads to the same results like Calvinist double Predestination?

I find that single Predestination doesn't make sense, it is like an unstable intermediary chemical substance or a thought that has not reached its logical conclusions, and depending on how the concept is interpreted it will lead to either double Predestination or Arminism.

 

[Albion]

Do you mean that Lutheran (or Augustinian) single Predestination effectively leads to the same results like Calvinist double Predestination?

What I was mainly trying to get across there, other than that when we talk about Predestination we may be talking more about God than about his creatures, was that there are a variety of different ways of thinking about the effect of Single Predestination. Or Double Predestination. More than people usually assume.

For some churches it means you are doomed if not among the Elect, but for others it doesn't mean that at all, and those two are not the only approaches.

The answer to the question you asked me here, however, is a definite "no."

I find that single Predestination doesn't make sense, it is like an unstable intermediary chemical substance or a thought that has not reached its logical conclusions, and depending on how the concept is interpreted it will lead to either double Predestination or Arminism.

Hmm. I don't commit to any of these concepts myself, but in my opinion single Predestination makes the most sense of all of them. After all, we have God choosing certain individuals--and nations--to be his special people for one reason or another. So that's not unthinkable, and it's to be found right there in Scripture.