What is our role at Mass as a Woman or Girl?

[isabella1]

I thought this would be a good discussion topic. It would be good to take a look at Vatican I and II, along with Cannon Law, as well as the role of women in scripture, and most important what the example of the Blessed Virgin Mary, and what role she had.

How do you view females serving at Mass in the role of alter server, lectors, extraordinary Eucharistic ministers, cantors, etc...

 

[JoabAnias]

How do you view females serving at Mass in the role of alter server, lectors, extraordinary Eucharistic ministers, cantors, etc...

The same way the Holy See does.

 

[isabella1]

I was reading a discussion about this topic on CA, so I just thought it would be a good topic here.

 

[JoabAnias]

I was reading a discussion about this topic on CA, so I just thought it would be a good topic here.

Well, we're on the same page behind the Church anyway.

 

[SolomonVII]

Kneel during the kneeling parts, sing during the singing parts, pray during the praying parts, partake in the confession and the sacraments as the spirit leads you to, and evangelize the word whenever and wherever possible, in as efficacious matter as possible.
As for the nuts and bolts, the particular diocese set the rules for all of us to follow, women included. Women may participate according to the parameters afforded to them.
The example of Mary is the example of someone who was open to life, to life in the wombe even, and saw that as her most extraordinary gift. There is no gift that a woman can give to the Church that is greater than the life that she, with God, is capable of creating.

 

[JoabAnias]

Do you know where to find the documents on female altar servers? I know you used to be one when you were a kid.

This is a good start:

Female Altar Servers

 

[Fantine]

I thought this would be a good discussion topic. It would be good to take a look at Vatican I and II, along with Cannon Law, as well as the role of women in scripture, and most important what the example of the Blessed Virgin Mary, and what role she had.

How do you view females serving at Mass in the role of alter server, lectors, extraordinary Eucharistic ministers, cantors, etc...

It would be interesting to consider the role of some of the female saints, too.

Like St. Hilda, who was the prioress of both a women's monastery and a men's abbey in 12th century England.

Or St. Hildegarde of Bingen:

a writer, composer, philosopher, Christian mystic, German Benedictine abbess, visionary, and polymath.[2] Elected a magistra by her fellow nuns in 1136, she founded the monasteries of Rupertsberg in 1150 and Eibingen in 1165. One of her works as a composer, the Ordo Virtutum, is an early example of liturgical drama.[3] She wrote theological, botanical and medicinal texts, as well as letters, liturgical songs, poems, and arguably the oldest surviving morality play, while supervising brilliant miniature Illuminations.

Hildegard of Bingen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Saints like Jane Frances DeChantal and Elizabeth Ann Seton who founded religious orders.

Leaders of nations like St. Elizabeth of Hungary.

Then you would have a more balanced picture of women's roles in the world and in the Church.

 

[JoabAnias]

Then you would have a more balanced picture of women's roles in the world and in the Church.

 

[Gwendolyn]

I believe she might be referring to the comment about a woman's greatest gift being producing children.

The Saints did not produce children, but they still achieved amazing things for this Church and helped move her forward.

 

[Fantine]

In other words, Sts. Hilda, Hildegarde of Bingen, Jane Frances De Chantal, Elizabeth Ann Seton, and others showed what women in the Church are capable of accomplishing--founding and leading large organizations, establishing school systems, exhibiting great leadership, and even leading groups of male and female monastics simultaneously in the twelfth century.

And, thankfully, in its wisdom, the Church elevated these examples of strong, powerful, capable, brilliant women to sainthood, so that we could look at their example of Catholic womanhood in times that were more culturally enlightened than Biblical times.

In looking for examples of what women should be doing at Mass, I also look towards some of the religious sisters I've known...who were getting their Masters Degrees and PhD's at a time when few women graduated high school, who were running schools and hospitals, teaching college, writing books, etc.

The fact that they were often unappreciated and unrecognized did not deter them in their determination to use their abilities to the fullest extent to the glory of God.

Because most of them struggled against huge obstacles, they knew that life can be hard, and life can be unfair, and they stayed too busy to worry about what their roles should be at Mass....

They could afford to leave those roles to men, many of whom were far less capable and talented than they were.

I think that these contemporary (and even centuries old) examples are more indicative of what women's roles should be at Mass than Biblical models.

 

[isabella1]

Fantine, I think you misunderstood the question in my OP. I was not talking about the role of Women in the Church, but rather our role during Mass.

I am well aware of the Saints that were amazing Women, that built schools, pilgrimages, are Doctors of the Church, highly educated, etc... All the Saints you mentioned, I have read about and even studied in depth some of them. I understand where you are coming from.

If Jesus wanted women to be included in every role, wouldn't he have made some apostles. None were chosen. Serving at the altar is a way to let those who aspire to be priests a chance to get their feet wet. Since Women cannot and will never be priests, what would be the point of a woman serving in the Holy Sacrifice of Mass?

Women are an important part of the body of Christ, so what is our role? Paul writes that women should not speak in the temple, and the Catholic church has maintained that position until the last century. The Lord chose specific roles for both men and women, and not any one can fit any role, which is the notion of modern feminist propaganda. Women should be Women, not another form of Men.

Again "personally" I try to be humble like Mary (although sometimes difficult) and accept the will of God as a Woman and in my role at Mass.

Why is it today that a Woman is offended my the role of sitting in the pew and praying? I consider this duty a great privilege and honor. The duty of a woman is far more important than reading the Epistle at Mass on Sunday or distributing Holy Communion. There are reasons for where Christ has placed her.

1 Cor 14:34-35 Let women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted them to speak, but to be subject, as also the law saith. But if they would learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is a shame for a woman to speak in the church.

Gen 3:16 To the woman also he said: I will multiply thy sorrows, and thy conceptions: in sorrow shalt thou bring forth children, and thou shalt be under thy husband's power, and he shall have dominion over thee.

I am actually grateful that our Lord chose certain roles for men and women. Can you imagine a woman leading the church going through PMS or menopause. My goodness, it would be disastrous.

 

[CruciFixed]

so that we could look at their example of Catholic womanhood in times that were more culturally enlightened than Biblical times.

The woman given as an example in the OP was Mary the Mother of God and if I'm not mistaken.......she's from "Biblical" times? What's wrong with using her as an example of Catholic womanhood?

I'm also confused because I thought this was a discussion about the role of women during the Mass?

 

[isabella1]

Do you know where to find the documents on female altar servers? I know you used to be one when you were a kid.

This is a good start:

Female Altar Servers

Thats a great link thanks. It amazes me how you find things. There are two parts that really brought home the point to me and that was in the first letter:
"Therefore the Holy See's recommendation is to retain as far as possible the custom of having only boys as servers. But it leaves to the bishop the choice of permitting women and girls for a good reason and to the pastor of each parish the decision as to whether to act on the bishop's permission."

and in the second (follow up):
"Getting back to our subject, while the rights enjoyed by every Catholic are spelled out clearly by canon law, and include among other entitlements a right to the sacraments (see Canon 214), which is certainly not political, this fact has little to do with the question of a "right" to serve at the altar.

Serving at Mass, unlike the Catholic's right to assist at Mass and receive Communion, is a privilege and in some cases a vocation. But it can never be called a right. Therefore, I repeat that no one has a right to do so and to frame the question in these terms is to use political categories to seek to demand what can only be humbly accepted."

 

[CruciFixed]

Well this is an interesting topic. I think its personal but I always prefer to hear the boys/ men reading the epistles.

New question:

Serving at the altar is a way to let those who aspire to be priests a chance to get their feet wet.

In your opinion does this exclude married men or does it not matter if the man is married since in some occasions married men can still discern the priesthood?

 

[isabella1]

I can understand the confusion Brikkz. I think she was just misread the OP. Giving her the benefit of doubt.

 

[CruciFixed]

Well her take of it confused me as well so I wanted to make sure I wasn't misreading the OP myself.

 

[isabella1]

Well this is an interesting topic. I think its personal but I always prefer to hear the boys/ men reading the epistles.

New question:


In your opinion does this exclude married men or does it not matter if the man is married since in some occasions married men can still discern the priesthood?

Deacons are married, serve on the alter, and have a very important role in serving along side the priest. They can do almost everything a priest can except the consecration, hearing confessions and administering last rights. Some of my point was that Jesus called men when he chose his disciples not women.

And you are right to look to our Mother Mary for your role model. You can't get any better than that.

Did you ever notice in almost all pictures of Mary with Jesus and by herself, her eyes are downcast, thus helping the viewer to focus on Jesus and keep her in the background.

The more I read about her life and role, the more I am brought to humility and sandpapered from the liberal way of thinking that feminists has lured and trapped me into thinking throughout my life.

There is a great beauty and many graces given to women who are silent, prayerful, and obedient to the Church and the men in our lives (husbands, brothers, priests, etc.). God put us under the protection of our men and the Church for good reason. It is a man's responsibility to keep us pure and holy. Mary has shown us already how powerful a holy and pure womans prayers are, and so much more. By stepping into a man's role in the Church, we go against what God has intended for us.

 

[Colin]

How do you view females serving at Mass in the role of alter server, lectors, extraordinary Eucharistic ministers, cantors, etc...

Same as I view males in these roles . No problem .

 

[JoabAnias]

I believe she might be referring to the comment about a woman's greatest gift being producing children.

The Saints did not produce children, but they still achieved amazing things for this Church and helped move her forward.

I figured it was probably something different than it sounded.

I find Isabellas view of women in the Church to be prefectly balanced.

 

[JoabAnias]

Thats a great link thanks. It amazes me how you find things. There are two parts that really brought home the point to me and that was in the first letter:
"Therefore the Holy See's recommendation is to retain as far as possible the custom of having only boys as servers. But it leaves to the bishop the choice of permitting women and girls for a good reason and to the pastor of each parish the decision as to whether to act on the bishop's permission."

and in the second (follow up):
"Getting back to our subject, while the rights enjoyed by every Catholic are spelled out clearly by canon law, and include among other entitlements a right to the sacraments (see Canon 214), which is certainly not political, this fact has little to do with the question of a "right" to serve at the altar.

Serving at Mass, unlike the Catholic's right to assist at Mass and receive Communion, is a privilege and in some cases a vocation. But it can never be called a right. Therefore, I repeat that no one has a right to do so and to frame the question in these terms is to use political categories to seek to demand what can only be humbly accepted."

I totally agree. No ministry is a "right". Its a privilege to serve.