What is OSAS?

[stan1953]

The Presbyterian Confession of Faith states: “They whom God hath accepted in his beloved, effectually called and sanctified by His Spirit, can neither totally nor finally fall away from the state of grace, but shall certainly persevere therein to the end, and be eternally saved.” In other words, this theory teaches that a child of God cannot so sin as to fall from the grace of God and be lost in eternity. Sometimes referred to as “once in grace, always in grace” or “once saved, always saved,” this doctrine was formulated as a result of Calvinism’s “Predestination.” If God elected certain individuals to be saved, His will cannot be overturned or upset by any man (not even the elected); hence, these people must be saved and can do nothing to change the situation.

I would like scripture from ALL, to either refute or support this statement. Please show in your title if you are PRO (accept this statement) or CON (reject this statement)
Can we please try to keep this civil.

 

[AndOne]

It's called the Westminster Confession of Faith - I agree with the part you quoted - and the confession itself provides scripture proofs at every point it establishes. Why not address those here?

 

[FreeGrace2]

From the OP:
The Presbyterian Confession of Faith states: “They whom God hath accepted in his beloved, effectually called and sanctified by His Spirit, can neither totally nor finally fall away from the state of grace, but shall certainly persevere therein to the end, and be eternally saved.”

I fully agree with the point of "certainly be eternally saved". Which is OSAS. However, I disagree with "persevering to the end", if persevering means the believer will continue to believe, as Scripture notes those who have only "believed for a while" (Luke 8:13).

Regarding OSAS, the best passage is Rom 8:31-39.

Romans 8:38
For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers,
Romans 8:39
nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

The 2 conditions, "not things present, nor things to come" covers ANYTHING that may occur in the life of the believer. This would have to include the believer's possible loss of faith. Yet not even loss of one's faith results in loss of salvation, or as Paul said it, "will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord".

Another passage that indicates that regardless of lifestyle, the believer will "live together with Him".
1 Thess 5:10
who died for us, so that whether we are awake or asleep, we will live together with Him

The context refers to lifestyle. Those asleep aren't paying attention or obedient, and those awake are obedient.

Regardless, "we" (believers) will live together with Him.

 

[drstevej]

I prefer the term OJSG

Once justified, surely glorified (Romans 8:30)

The term saved can refer to a variety of deliverances (from the penalty of sin, from the power of sin, from the presence of sin). OJSG is more precise.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I prefer the term OJSG

Once justified, surely glorified (Romans 8:30)

Good point.

The term saved can refer to a variety of deliverances (from the penalty of sin, from the power of sin, from the presence of sin). OJSG is more precise.

And those who believe in Christ for salvation HAVE been saved from all 3.

Not all at once, however.

 

[AndOne]

I prefer the term OJSG

Once justified, surely glorified (Romans 8:30)

The term saved can refer to a variety of deliverances (from the penalty of sin, from the power of sin, from the presence of sin). OJSG is more precise.

Never heard of this acronym before - I love it!

 

[AndOne]

From the OP:
The Presbyterian Confession of Faith states: “They whom God hath accepted in his beloved, effectually called and sanctified by His Spirit, can neither totally nor finally fall away from the state of grace, but shall certainly persevere therein to the end, and be eternally saved.”

I fully agree with the point of "certainly be eternally saved". Which is OSAS. However, I disagree with "persevering to the end", if persevering means the believer will continue to believe, as Scripture notes those who have only "believed for a while" (Luke 8:13).

Regarding OSAS, the best passage is Rom 8:31-39.

Romans 8:38
For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers,
Romans 8:39
nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

The 2 conditions, "not things present, nor things to come" covers ANYTHING that may occur in the life of the believer. This would have to include the believer's possible loss of faith. Yet not even loss of one's faith results in loss of salvation, or as Paul said it, "will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord".

Another passage that indicates that regardless of lifestyle, the believer will "live together with Him".
1 Thess 5:10
who died for us, so that whether we are awake or asleep, we will live together with Him

The context refers to lifestyle. Those asleep aren't paying attention or obedient, and those awake are obedient.

Regardless, "we" (believers) will live together with Him.

Too bad we have the book of James in the Bible. If we didn't I would agree with you - but James 2:14-26 indicates that real faith is something that the rest of the world can see.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Too bad we have the book of James in the Bible.

Well, I disagree with your view of James. I think we are very fortunate to have it.

If we didn't I would agree with you - but James 2:14-26 indicates that real faith is something that the rest of the world can see.

No, you misunderstand James, as I expected. James was making the point that unless a believer demonstrates their faith by works, no one can see their faith.

 

[AndOne]

No, you misunderstand James, as I expected. James was making the point that unless a believer demonstrates their faith by works, no one can see their faith.

Can faith not demonstrated justify? - see vs 24

Why does James call faith that "no one can see" dead in vs 26?

You are making a rather bold assertion that cannot be supported by this overall text of scripture.

 

[drstevej]

Never heard of this acronym before - I love it!

I made it up.

 

[drstevej]

Too bad we have the book of James in the Bible. If we didn't I would agree with you - but James 2:14-26 indicates that real faith is something that the rest of the world can see.

People can see the results of faith. They can not read a heart, God can. James addresses justification before MEN, not justification before God. Check the context.

 

[AndOne]

People can see the results of faith. They can not read a heart, God can. James addresses justification before MEN, not justification before God. Check the context.

That's not my point - and nothing in the post you quoted disagrees with what you said. My point is that real faith doesn't result in an apathetic life free of good fruit. Our friend FG seems to think differently.

 

[stan1953]

It's called the Westminster Confession of Faith - I agree with the part you quoted - and the confession itself provides scripture proofs at every point it establishes. Why not address those here?

I've taken you off my ignore list for this thread. Please just respond to the OP.

 

[AndOne]

I've taken you off my ignore list for this thread. Please just respond to the OP.

I did.

 

[stan1953]

I fully agree with the point of "certainly be eternally saved". Which is OSAS. However, I disagree with "persevering to the end", if persevering means the believer will continue to believe, as Scripture notes those who have only "believed for a while" (Luke 8:13).

OSAS is ONCE saved, ALWAYS saved. Some call it eternal security. How do you reconcile OSAS with this POV? I agree with your view of Luke 8:13

Regarding OSAS, the best passage is Rom 8:31-39.
Romans 8:38
For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers,
Romans 8:39
nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Sorry I don't see OSAS here except in an eisegetical manner. God even loves those that go to hell and these scenarios do not have to do with OUR choice to walk away or fall into apostasy.

The 2 conditions, "not things present, nor things to come" covers ANYTHING that may occur in the life of the believer. This would have to include the believer's possible loss of faith. Yet not even loss of one's faith results in loss of salvation, or as Paul said it, "will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord".

The context is about forces OUTSIDE of ourselves. It says nothing about our free will choices, and would be contradictory to passages in Hebrews 6 and 10 that show people do fall/shrink back. The Bible is NOT contradictory so you have to find the proper context here in Romans 8.

Another passage that indicates that regardless of lifestyle, the believer will "live together with Him".
1 Thess 5:10
who died for us, so that whether we are awake or asleep, we will live together with Him
The context refers to lifestyle. Those asleep aren't paying attention or obedient, and those awake are obedient.
Regardless, "we" (believers) will live together with Him.

1 Thess 5 is about the day of Jesus' return. Verses 1-11 is a metaphorical analogy of that day. Paul dealt with the status of dead/sleeping believers already in chapter 4. It's not about life STYLE, it is about life STATUS/PURPOSE. Some believers obviously will be alive when Jesus returns, and some will be dead or as the Bible likes to euphemistically refer to them as 'sleeping'.

 

[Dispy]

The Presbyterian Confession of Faith states: “They whom God hath accepted in his beloved, effectually called and sanctified by His Spirit, can neither totally nor finally fall away from the state of grace, but shall certainly persevere therein to the end, and be eternally saved.” In other words, this theory teaches that a child of God cannot so sin as to fall from the grace of God and be lost in eternity. Sometimes referred to as “once in grace, always in grace” or “once saved, always saved,” this doctrine was formulated as a result of Calvinism’s “Predestination.” If God elected certain individuals to be saved, His will cannot be overturned or upset by any man (not even the elected); hence, these people must be saved and can do nothing to change the situation.

I would like scripture from ALL, to either refute or support this statement. Please show in your title if you are PRO (accept this statement) or CON (reject this statement)
Can we please try to keep this civil.

Eph. 1:13 "In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvaltlion: in whom also, after that ye believed, ye were sealed with the holy Spirit of promise.
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of His glory."

 

[stan1953]

I did.

Not in the fashion I asked for. Where are the scriptures to support the OP?

 

[AndOne]

Not in the fashion I asked for. Where are the scriptures to support the OP?

They are provided in the in the WCOF - which was the only point I wanted to make. Thanks.

 

[stan1953]

Eph. 1:13-14: In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvaltlion: in whom also, after that ye believed, ye were sealed with the holy Spirit of promise. Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of His glory.

Eph 1:13-14
And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

I assume this means you are PRO? Please exegete to show where you find OSAS in this scripture you supplied as support.

What about the men in Acts 19 that were not sealed when they believed, until they met Paul? Were they not saved? Also how does being sealed guarantee eternal security in light of Hebrews 6 and 10?
What about those who Jesus told were saved by their faith?
When are we redeemed according to this scripture?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Can faith not demonstrated justify? - see vs 24

What does your sentence mean? It doesn't make sense. Typo, maybe?

Why does James call faith that "no one can see" dead in vs 26?

Because without demonstrating one's faith, no one else can see it, and such faith that has no deeds is barren, dead, unfruitful.

Let me ask you this: How can anyone call a faith "dead" if it first wasn't alive?

You are making a rather bold assertion that cannot be supported by this overall text of scripture.

Relative to what, exactly? What is my bold assertion?