What is New Covenant Theology ?

[JM]

The Bible is very clear. Salvation comes by faith. Faith comes by hearing the Word of God/gospel message. Faith is the belief in things hoped for.

45 New Testament verses say by faith and faith is not something so hard. So that is my response to all you have said.

Faith by hearing the Word of God and believing in something hoped for.

No pre-salvation regeneration needed. Sorry.

I have posted plenty of scripture proving my point.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Calvin, Luther, Zwingli, and the Anabaptists were all men greater than me, but still men made of flesh.

None of them deserve to be on a pedestal. It is reserved only for Christ.

Rise of the Anabaptists:
http://media.sermonaudio.com/articles/da-112414164421-1.PDF

Calvin on Assurance:
http://media.sermonaudio.com/articles/da-1231485732-1.PDF


Many of them could not let go of all of the doctrine from the system they came out of.

Reformed Covenant Theology is a direct consequence of this fact.

The Westminster Confession held onto the doctrine of the Catholic Church which confused the two covenants and substituted infant baptism in place of infant circumcision.

The 1689 Baptist Confession fixed baptism, but failed to deal with the claim that the Old Covenant was given to Adam.

Act 15:10　 Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?　


They are attempting to change what Peter said into the following...

"Now we can bear the yoke, through Christ."

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Let's not forget what God's Word says as far as them believing that the Old Covenant was given to Adam. A very flawed premise at that.

The Old Covenant did NOT exist before Sinai. Moses and the 10 Commandments, which made the Israelite's accountable to God for sin, only through knowing what was sin (ie. 10 Commandements) is why God could hold the Israelite's to the Law of Moses. But the New Testament says straight out that sin was not counted against them BEFORE the 10 Commandments.

Romans 5:12-14
12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, so also death was passed on to all men, because all sinned. 13 For sin was in the world before the Law was given; but sin is not taken into account when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless, death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who did not sin in the way that Adam transgressed. He is a pattern of the One to come.

So Adam did not have the Old Covenant. The Old Covenant was sealed on the Law of Moses and the 10 Commandements.

Sin hadn't been identified until the law. Adam's problem was disobedience to God's command not to eat of the forbidden fruit. The consequence of that disobedience is what got Adam kicked out of the garden. Sin. Sin separates man and God.

 

[ToBeLoved]

I have posted plenty of scripture proving my point.

And ?

It doesn't prove Calvinism. Sorry.

The Bible is very clear. Salvation comes by faith. Faith comes by hearing the Word of God/gospel message. Faith is the belief in things hoped for.

45 New Testament verses say by faith and faith is not something so hard. So that is my response to all you have said.

Faith by hearing the Word of God and believing in something hoped for.

No pre-salvation regeneration needed.

You are reading into the Word of God.

 

[BABerean2]

lol a very annoying habit brother, to ingore the massive amounts of scripture I posted proving that "Calvinism" did not start with Calvin.

Then it should not be called "Calvinism".

Calvin himself embraced infant baptism and believed believers had to be put under the Law of Moses before they came to Christ.

He called believers "lazy asses" that must be conformed to the law.

His confusion of the covenants has been the subject of our past arguments.

Making the Gospel synonymous with Calvinism would be same as making the Gospel synonymous with Lutheranism.

The Gospel can only be equated to Christ, instead of any man.
................................................................

And on the subject of ignoring scripture and having a head in the sand...

Exodus 34:28 and Deuteronomy 5:1-3 are ignored by you in reference to chapter 19 of the 1689 London Baptist Confession.

If you ever admitted that your man-made confession is wrong, what would happen to your system of Reformed Covenant Theology?

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[JM]

Then it should not be called "Calvinism".

It was called "Calvinism" by it's opponents who tried to associate the Gospel with man instead of God. It happens still today. For example New Covenant Theology is really neonomianism assocated with Richard Baxter but Christians who fail to read their own history are doomed to repeat the same false teachings.

After both sides present information it now comes down to presuppositions. These are foundational ideas we all hold to when analyzing information that colour how we understand it. People today believe that Law is opposed to Grace, which isn't true. We are saved by Christ's righteousness and His death, that righteousness imputed to us is based on His sinless life. We can say Christ is sinless because He kept the Law - perfectly. If you deny the eternity of the Law you deny the righteousness of Christ.

That's another reason it isn't a good idea to just pound away on a brother/sister in Christ when we differ on some theological point. It just causes hard feelings. We are commanded to "renew our minds" to conform to the will of God.

That we must do.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

 

[BABerean2]

New Covenant Theology is really neonomianism assocated with Richard Baxter but Christians who fail to read their own history are doomed to repeat the same false teachings.

If you are going to make such a charge, it would help all of us if you provide the background information on Baxter or the scripture involved.

Otherwise, you are just throwing mud hoping that some of it will stick...



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[BABerean2]

We can say Christ is sinless because He kept the Law - perfectly. If you deny the eternity of the Law you deny the righteousness of Christ.

Joh 15:10　 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.　

Christ did not say "Keep My Father's commandments."
In the verse above we find that there are two sets of commandments.


Heb 7:12　 For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law.　


Heb 8:13　 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.



1Jn 3:22　 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight.
　
1Jn 3:23　 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.　

1Jn 3:24　 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.　


Heb 12:18　 For you have not come to the mountain that may be touched and that burned with fire, and to blackness and darkness and tempest,　
Heb 12:19　 and the sound of a trumpet and the voice of words, so that those who heard it begged that the word should not be spoken to them anymore.　
Heb 12:20　 (For they could not endure what was commanded: "AND IF SO MUCH AS A BEAST TOUCHES THE MOUNTAIN, IT SHALL BE STONED OR SHOT WITH AN ARROW."　
Heb 12:21　 And so terrifying was the sight that Moses said, "I AM EXCEEDINGLY AFRAID AND TREMBLING.")

　
Heb 12:22　 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels,　
Heb 12:23　 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect,　
Heb 12:24　 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

We are come to Mount Zion, not to Mount Sinai.

.............................................................

Our covenant is located in the shadow of an offering in the land of Moriah.

Gen_22:2　 Then He said, "Take now your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I shall tell you."

2Ch_3:1　 Now Solomon began to build the house of the LORD at Jerusalem on Mount Moriah, where the LORD had appeared to his father David, at the place that David had prepared on the threshing floor of Ornan the Jebusite.
　

 

[ToBeLoved]

It was called "Calvinism" by it's opponents who tried to associate the Gospel with man instead of God. It happens still today. For example New Covenant Theology is really neonomianism assocated with Richard Baxter but Christians who fail to read their own history are doomed to repeat the same false teachings.

After both sides present information it now comes down to presuppositions. These are foundational ideas we all hold to when analyzing information that colour how we understand it. People today believe that Law is opposed to Grace, which isn't true. We are saved by Christ's righteousness and His death, that righteousness imputed to us is based on His sinless life. We can say Christ is sinless because He kept the Law - perfectly. If you deny the eternity of the Law you deny the righteousness of Christ.

That's another reason it isn't a good idea to just pound away on a brother/sister in Christ when we differ on some theological point. It just causes hard feelings. We are commanded to "renew our minds" to conform to the will of God.

That we must do.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

You can call New Covenant theology what you want, but God's Word doesn't agree with what you believe. I gave verses earlier that showed that Adam was never under the Law and the Law was not in effect until the 10 Commandments. The Law and keeping the law was the Old Covenant promise.

 

[ToBeLoved]

After both sides present information it now comes down to presuppositions. These are foundational ideas we all hold to when analyzing information that colour how we understand it. People today believe that Law is opposed to Grace, which isn't true. We are saved by Christ's righteousness and His death, that righteousness imputed to us is based on His sinless life. We can say Christ is sinless because He kept the Law - perfectly. If you deny the eternity of the Law you deny the righteousness of Christ.

Well this is one of the main things you have wrong. The Law is not eternal and was never meant to be eternal. The Law served it's purpose as the Covenant UNTIL Jesus Christ came. Then the Law passed away.

Jesus = new High Priest, New Commandments, New Covenant

Romans 7:6
6 But now, having died to what bound us, we have been released from the Law, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

Hebrews 8:13
13 In speaking of a new covenant,” He has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.
Hebrews 8:8
But when God found fault with the people, He said: "Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah.

Hebrews 9:15
Therefore Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, now that He has died to redeem them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.

Hebrews 8:6
Now, however, Jesus has received a far superior ministry, just as the covenant He mediates is superior and is founded on better promises.

Hebrews 7:22
Because of this oath, Jesus has become the guarantee of a better covenant.

Hebrews 9:15
Therefore Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, now that He has died to redeem them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.

A person cannot be under two covenants. So, if the New Covenant is in effect, the Old Covenant is not. Same with the Old Covenant, if the Old Covenant (Law) is still in effect, the New Covenant is not.

No one can be under two Covenants.

Jesus fulfilled the law, and in doing so it passed away.

 

[ToBeLoved]

[staff edit]

I would be more than happy to but it will be in the first week of January.

I hope you feel better soon and God bless you brother.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[mark wright]

The core foundation of the new covenant is/ its core theology:

This is the covenant i will make with them after that times says the Lord
I will write my laws in their minds and place them on their hearts
Then he adds
Their sins and lawless deeds I will remember no more
Heb10:15-17

 

[BABerean2]

A recent debate on the continuing battle between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant.

Sadly, the Judaisers are still with us today.

In the verse below we find two different sets of commandments.

Joh 15:10　 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.


Below, we find Paul describing the 10 commandments as "the ministry of death".

2Co 3:6　 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.　

2Co 3:7　 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away,　

2Co 3:8　 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious?　

　

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[mark wright]

This is the theology on which the new covenant stands:

I will write my laws in their minds and place them on their hearts
Then he adds
Their sins and lawless deeds I will remember no more
Heb10:16&17

 

[BABerean2]

Joh 15:10　 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.　

Based on the words of Christ above, there are two sets of commandments.

1Jn 3:22　 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight.　
1Jn 3:23　 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.　
1Jn 3:24　 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.　


This is confirmed by Paul below.

2Co 3:6　 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.　
2Co 3:7　 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away,　
2Co 3:8　 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious?　


Also contrasted by the writer of Hebrews.
We have not come to Mount Sinai.
We have come to the New Covenant of Mount Zion.
They are not the same.


Heb 12:18　 For you have not come to the mountain that may be touched and that burned with fire, and to blackness and darkness and tempest,　
Heb 12:19　 and the sound of a trumpet and the voice of words, so that those who heard it begged that the word should not be spoken to them anymore.　
Heb 12:20　 (For they could not endure what was commanded: "AND IF SO MUCH AS A BEAST TOUCHES THE MOUNTAIN, IT SHALL BE STONED OR SHOT WITH AN ARROW."　
Heb 12:21　 And so terrifying was the sight that Moses said, "I AM EXCEEDINGLY AFRAID AND TREMBLING.")　

Heb 12:22　 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels,　
Heb 12:23　 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect,　
Heb 12:24　 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.　

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[BABerean2]

Anyone interested in New Covenant Theology may be interested in Providence Theological Seminary, which is now located in Tennessee.

It is training up a new generation of Christian leaders who understand the New Covenant of Christ.

Check out the link below.

Providence Theological Seminary Blog | Devoted to Teaching, Disseminating, and Defending New Covenant Theology

The seminary also maintains a Blog to discuss New Covenant topics.

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[JM]

The moral Law existed before Sinai.

Adam and Eve broke the moral Law when they committed theft of the fruit in the garden. When God gave the Law on Sinai this eternal, moral Law was listed as number eight. It was wrong before the Law given on Sinai for Rachel to steal her father’s idols in Gen. 31.19-32…was it not?

They seemed to think so.

“… for where no law is, there is no transgression.” Romans 4:15
Murder is against the moral Law. When Cain killed Abel in Gen. 4.13 he broke the sixth commandment as given on Sinai and Cain was punished for breaking this moral Law (Gen. 9.6) Cain also broke the moral Law when he lied about killing his brother. This is commandment nine as re-stated on Sinai. (Gen. 4.9-12)

“…for where no law is, there is no transgression.”

The moral Law had been broke well before Sinai when Ham looked upon Noah’s nakedness it was considered dishonouring, Ham and his offspring were cursed for it (Gen. 918.29). Other examples of the moral Law being broke can be found in Gen. 21.9-10 (mocking his father) and Gen. 19.14-15 (showing lack of honour). This commandment was given on Sinai as a part of the that covenant.

“…for where no law is, there is no transgression.”

In Genesis 35.2 Jacob had foreign gods and broke the moral Law. The Egyptian people worshipped false gods breaking the moral Law, they worshipped idols and offered false worship breaking the moral Law and they blasphemed the name of God break breaking the moral Law. This covers the first three commandments that were included in the Decalogue…does it not? This was the reason God punished the Egyptians in Exodus 5-7. It was for breaking the moral Law.

“… for where no law is, there is no transgression.”

The moral Law was broken in Gen. 20.14 (mentioned in Jude 7) and they were destroyed for it.

“… for where no law is, there is no transgression.”

Moses commanded the Israelites in the seventh day principle of resting from ones labour in Ex. 16.27-29. That would be the fourth commandment as given on Sinai.
“… for where no law is, there is no transgression.”

All of these transgression of the moral Law took place before Sinai and incurred the wrath of God for breaking what latter became known as the seventh commandment. It is entirely consistent with Romans 2 – the Law is on the hearts of all people including unbelievers and they were judged for Law breaking. The giving of the Mosaic Covenant had nothing to do with their punishments… (see also Gen. 34:1.26 for committing adultery)

“… for where no law is, there is no transgression.”

We are told in 2 Peter, “And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly” What was Noah preaching? What standard? If not the moral Law as all Reformed Calvinists contend, what standard?

“… for where no law is, there is no transgression.”

The moral Law was broken when Abraham’s wife was coveted by Abimelech. (Gen. 20.3, 18) When the moral Law, which is included in the Mosaic covenant of works was given, this commandment is listed as number 10.

“…for where no law is, there is no transgression.”

All 10 Commandments can be found before the giving of the Law on Sinai. So what does Paul mean in Gal. 3 when he states, “the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after…?” Paul is referring to the New Covenant of Grace promised to Abraham, restated numerous times throughout the OT, clearly promised in Jer. 31 and fulfilled by the death of the testator (Matt. 26, Heb. 9) The passage from Jer. 31 reads, “I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah” “I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts;” There is only one moral Law revealed in scripture and Israel knew what God was promising to them. God promises in the same verse, linked with the New Covenant promise of pure grace that He, “will be their God, and they shall be my people.” God’s people recognized the moral Law, the Law that was written on their hearts… In Gal. 3 Paul is giving context to the Law, that it was given as a covenant of works to “increase transgressions” because no one can keep it! The moral Law teaches the elect that salvation is by Christ alone…it is a schoolmaster bring us to Christ!

Now, NCT may not be antinomian in practice, but you are theologically antinomian if yo deny the Law. NCT is an old error. You may reject the moral Law believing it’s tied to the Mosaic Covenant only but I believe you know the Law just as well as any other Christian. For example you would never teach someone that they could have another god before God (first command), have idols (second), take the name of the Lord in vain (third), skip church just because they don’t feel like going…as if the local congregation doesn’t really have the authority to call its members to worship and rest (fourth), dishonour their folks (fifth), murder (sixth), commit adultery (seventh), steal or take what doesn’t belong to them (eighth), you would never encourage gossip or lying (ninth), or encouraging coveting others possessions (tenth).

So it’s really just a matter of heady theorizing.

 

[Gideon]

Of course there was moral law before Sinai. But we should not equate the decalogue given to Moses as THE moral law. The decalogue was the codified version of moral law, limited and inferior to that written on our heart when Christ becomes our master.

New Covt. Theology does not say that we are without moral law.

 

[BABerean2]

Adam and Eve broke the moral Law when they committed theft of the fruit in the garden.

If you are going to define "the moral Law" as the 10 commandments, as found in the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith, then NO.

They had no mother.

They could not commit adultery, because there were no other men or women present.

They could not steal since everything was free for the taking.

God did not say... "Do not steal the fruit from the Garden."

If they had only taken the fruit of the tree and had not eaten it, then things would not have turned out the same way.


God had given them one commandment. "Do not eat of the tree of..."



That was the one Law they broke.

Was it immoral to break that one law? Yes.

However, based on Exodus 34:28 and Deuteronomy 5:1-3 the 10 commandments were not given earlier.

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[JM]

Moral Law is derived from God's self revelation to us, Romans 2 makes that clear. The Law Christ died to satisfy is the very Law antinomianism denies.

 

[BABerean2]

Moral Law is derived from God's self revelation to us, Romans 2 makes that clear. The Law Christ died to satisfy is the very Law antinomianism denies.

The confusion is often produced by claiming that the 10 commandments given at Sinai are "the Moral law", as stated in the 1689 London Baptist Confession.
This interpretation ignores the temporary nature of the covenant revealed by Paul in Galatians chapter 3.
Paul reveals below that he is under the law of Christ.

1Co 9:19　 For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a servant to all, that I might win the more;　
1Co 9:20　 and to the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might win Jews; to those who are under the law, as under the law, that I might win those who are under the law;　
1Co 9:21　 to those who are without law, as without law (not being without law toward God, but under law toward Christ), that I might win those who are without law;　


1Jn 3:22　 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight.　
1Jn 3:23　 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.　
1Jn 3:24　 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.　


This is confirmed by the two different sets of commandments given by Christ in the verse found below.



Joh 15:10　 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.
　(original in red, to indicate the words of Christ)

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