What is Liberal Catholicism to you?

Tallguy88

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Title is a question. Feel free to answer it.

Basic premise of the thread is that I was browsing the old threads and found this asked and it was a good discussion. But I'm not bumping a 10 year old thread. So new people, new thread. What does it mean to you?
 
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Tallguy88

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And I don't mean, "if you could change this specific thing or that specific thing, what would it be?". That's Cafeteria Catholicism. I think of liberal Catholicism as more of a philisophy or way of looking at things, rather than a wish list of changes. Even the rad trads have wish lists, but they certainly are not Liberal Catholics in the usual sense.
 
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Tallguy88

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I think for me it seems a change in emphasis. For the hardcore Traditionalists, they like the rules and don't like to bend, break, or change them. I think Liberals are more likely to look at things as economia, that the rules are the rules, but we don't live for the rules. "The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath". That sort of thing. Hence liberal Catholics being more receptive to things like communion for divorced and remarried people, open communion, some for women priests or gay marriage, etc. Certainly there's a range of views, but the overall tendency seems to focus on being inclusive and relaxing the rules, at least more so than is usually considered in line with what the Vatican wants.
 
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Fish and Bread

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From a meta point of view, I often ask people to picture Jesus standing on top of a mountain pointing off into the distance at a taller mountain. Conservatives tend to look at where Jesus is standing, progressives tend to look at where Jesus is pointing.

Jesus represented many things, but one thing he represents to me is a trajectory. When understood in the context of the Israelites as represented in the Old Testament, and other cultures of his time, there were certain things he emphasized and certain things that he moved in a given direction. People aren't always, as a group, ready for everything right away. Jesus made certain reforms, in a line of reforms made in the Old Testament and by some Jewish rabbis like Hillel who didn't made it into the Old Testament but would have been almost certainly read by Jesus, and he took their teachings and expanded on them and progressed towards great understandings. Some recent scholarship indicates that there actually may have been a city populated mostly by non-Jewish Romans as little as two miles from where Jesus lived, so his father almost certainly would have been doing some carpentry work for them, and that culture would have influenced him also- so, not just the Hebrew culture, but the Roman culture, and, actually, probably the Greek culture, because not only did the Greek Empire precede the Roman Empire in a lot of the same areas and influence it that way, the "Romans" in Israel were probably most people who spoke Greek from day to day (Common in the eastern Roman Empire, which would eventually become the Byzantine Empire centuries later) the same way Jewish folks spoke Aramaic instead of Hebrew.

Anyway, I look at Jesus as a critical step in our religious development, but the lesson I take from a lot of what he did is that God continues to speak in every era, and that our religious and ethical sense should be evolving and moving forward rather than stagnating. That was the basis of a lot of the clashes he had with the Jewish leaders of his day, at least as chronicled in the bible. So, rather than simply say that the Pharisees were represented as teaching X and Jesus taught Y and so we're at Y and that's the end of it, I look at Y as where Jesus could reasonably move people to at his time and gain enough acceptance to form the basis of what would be a worldwide religion. In the time between Abraham and Moses, and the time between Moses and Jesus, the People of God advanced a certain amount. We've had another 2,000 years to advance, with the guidance of the Holy Spirit and the example of Jesus, which is just as important as what he was actually saying. He had a way of viewing things that you can logically unpack and apply to continued ethical progress going forward.

The idea of doctrinal evolution and development is extremely important to my theological worldview. Saint John Cardinal Newman (The British one, not the American- Yes, there are two Saints with that exact name who were both Cardinals), and especially the Second Vatican Council, represent a lot of movement in that direction. That is a big part of why some traditionalists tend to reject the council, even though rejecting the teachings of a council and a Pope is probably the least traditional thing you can do, in a generic sense. Traditionalists are trying to role back the teaching on doctrinal development, and progressive tend to be trying to, well, develop it forward to encompass an even wider sense of development. :)

The other thing I'd say that's a part of the worldview of most progressives and liberals who are Catholics is that the idea that all of scripture and tradition must be seen first and foremost through a hermetic of love, inclusion, and social justice (or bringing freedom to the oppressed). The thing to look at is often "What does this teach us about love and inclusion?" and not "What rules is this setting up?".

However, the Catholic part of Liberal Catholic is important in that we do consider the history of the People of God as context and aren't starting from scratch. We're part of a long line of spiritual ancestors. We're not done building and renovating, though. The Kingdom of Heaven is not yet fully visible and present as the world, it's still breaking through the cracks. Jesus may have have been the pivotal moment where the momentum swung our way and victory became certain, but we have to continue on the path he opened, with God's help, to bring the war to a close.
 
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tadoflamb

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In the 14 years since I've been Catholic, in spite of hearing a couple thousand homilies by a large number of priests and deacons, I have never heard any of them preach on something called 'Liberal Catholicism'. Subsequently, liberal Catholicism means nothing to me. I am a Catholic (Latin rite) and that is the only way I can express it.

The question for me then is why am I on a liberal Catholic forum?

The answer is pretty simple. What I've read on this forum over the past year most closely reflects what I hear from the pulpits here in Catholicville. More specifically, the bishop, priests and deacons in this diocese stand up for the rights of immigrants, refugees and indigenous peoples. They preach a concern for the poor and for the environment. They've also adopted the spirit of Pope Francis's (now gloriously reigning in Rome) Year of Mercy. They don't obsess over homosexuals.

Though these issues have been pigeon holed as liberal Catholicism on CF, to me, this is what it means to be Catholic. Our Gospel is a Gospel of radical mercy and compassion. Though it's a difficult and high mark to obtain, to me, it's the inescapable, imperative of our faith. Interestingly enough, the closest thing I've found to this here on CF comes under the banner of liberal Catholicism.
 
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Fish and Bread

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One thing I left out of my initial post on this thread, that occurred to me later, is that for me part of Liberal Catholicism is embracing new scientific understandings and discoveries, and finding ways to integrate them into our faith rather than setting faith and science against each other. Science is really the discovery of the type of world God created and how he created it, and so, in learning about the world, we learn about God. If some religious understanding we have is contradicted by the facts (i.e. science, etc.) than it is our religious understanding that needs to adapt to the facts rather than the facts that need to adapt to our religious understanding (And, of course, facts do not actually adapt to our religious understanding anyway, whether we want them to or not).
 
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Godlovesmetwo

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Its avoiding the simplistic route. The absolutist route. The black and white route.
It's taking the bigger picture route, the Pope Francis route, the Gospel message route, the wider panoramic view.
And lastly its taking the Christian over the Catholic route because to be ecumenical is to be inclusive loving and being able to think outside the box.
 
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Fantine

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I think "liberal" Catholics prioritize spirituality over religiosity.

I think they follow their hearts before the rules.

They look at Mass as being much more about the eucharistic feast than the holy sacrifice.

In looking at the three types of prayer:
  • vertical (God's in the sky, you're on the ground)
  • horizontal (God is in the community and in each person we encounter)
  • internal (God lives within us)
"liberal" Catholics resonate much more strongly with the second and third expressions.
 
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Mountain_Girl406

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For me, on a personal level it's about trying to get to the heart of the matter, and then to live accordingly. In other words, try to live according to the example that Jesus set according to much that is written about Him, by first and foremost being compassionate and loving, calm, friendly, and caring about the planet and all who inhabit it. At the same time to me there's a component of embracing knowledge and trying to grow in wisdom, even if doing so contradicts earlier beliefs.
I don't always manage to do that, but that's what I think a liberal Catholic might aspire to.
 
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Fantine

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Well, thanks. We can all use prayer, can't we? I just prayed for you, too.
2lnejic.jpg
 
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Robinus

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I could explain how I think that Liberal Catholics are Self-Righteous Pharisees,

Could you give substance to your comment by quoting words of the members of this forum which give rise to your insult ?
 
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tadoflamb

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Instead, I'll pity you and pray for your souls, I know what it's like to think that you are entitled to impose your own will on reality and how painful it is to spend all day, constantly rationalizing and hiding from facts as they eat away at you, it really is a miserable life.

This is the same thing the protestants keep telling me.

Thing is, I'm not miserable. I'm a happy Catholic. Possibly the last happy Catholic on CF. When I think about miserable Christians, the prophets of doom over in the *ahem* traditional *ahem* catholic forum come immediately to mind. You guys need to cheer up.

I also think it's heartbreaking your relationship with God. How you resent how God made reality the way He did, if only you knew how God is truly loving and merciful and all that He's done for you, pouring out His life for you, and then giving you His Mother, such wonderful! If only knew this then you understand delight in the Traditions of the Catholic Church, a reverent Mass, chaplets and rosaries, Marian devotions, lives of the Saints, Scholasticism and a rational approach to religion. If you only knew how God is Truth Himself, HE WHO IS, and that He endowed us with intellect to know the Truth, He did not leave us totally depraved.

That sounds more Catholic. Good job.

I'm praying a triple rosary novena (see here: The Rosary Novena to Our Lady) for my 33-Day Marian Consecration, after that, I'll start praying one for you, and for the Liberal Catholics at parish, that Our Holy Mother and Mighty Queen may pour at her graces on you and enlighten you to the Truth.

Thanks for the prayers. It was Our Lady who introduced me to her most glorious Son who then led me to His Church.

You may dismiss me as politically motivated or suffering from insecurities, I don't care, God knows my soul, and He is the only One that matters!

You're sounding like a protestant again.

Jesus I Trust in You! Jesus I Trust in You! Jesus I Trust You!

Amen. :crossrc:
 
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tadoflamb

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I am not impressed by that sanctimonious prayer at all.

It's usually Calvinist's who pray for me like that. It's really strange hearing it coming from a Catholic.
 
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Shiloh Raven

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As an outsider looking in, this is what Liberal Catholicism means to me.

First of all, it means having a genuine concern and compassion for the poor and the sick.

Secondly, it means having a genuine concern and compassion for all life, including marginalized people, like the disabled, immigrants, refugees, Indigenous people and other minorities.

Third, it means having a genuine concern for the environment and all the creatures within. It takes a bold stance in standing up for protecting the environment from harm and destruction.

And finally, if I can say this without being criticized for it, the term reminds me of Pope Francis and of my Catholic friends here in the Lord's Table. I respect the Catholic faith and Catholicism now because of them. They are the reason why I am considering Catholicism in the first place.
 
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