What is "lawlessness"...? Or who are the "people of lawlessness"...?

[Christ is Lord]

What’s the difference between struggling with sin and practicing sin? One can struggle with sin often, wouldn’t that be considering practicing in someone else’s eyes?

A struggle implies a desire to do right. A practice is when you have not desire but you’re comfortable with your conduct or simply don’t care.

 

[Loversofjesus_2018]

A struggle implies a desire to do right. A practice is when you have do desire but you’re comfortable with your conduct or simply don’t care.

Ok I get that and I agree. So it has nothing to do with the amount of times you sin. Just your desire?

 

[Loversofjesus_2018]

Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. —1 John 3:4

The key in that statement is habitual rebellion. That is in contradiction to God. It reflects someone who has knowingly rejected Him and have chosen to do right in their own sight. Much like you saw in Judges.

Believers who’ve accepted God and wrestle against sin are another matter. But if they’ve willingly succumbed with no attempt to cease and continue in that vain in spite of the Holy Spirit’s promptings (and counsel from others) that is rebellion too.

There are those who are ignorant of the truth and may be deceived or subject to spiritual blindness. He knows their hearts and which will heed Him.

Lawlessness is not a permanent state. Repentance is possible.

Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered; blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin. —Romans 4:7-8

What if they attempt to cease but still struggle? Is perfection possible where a person no longer has to wrestle with sin?

 

[Christ is Lord]

Ok I get that and I agree. So it has nothing to do with the amount of times you sin. Just your desire?

The amount of times doesn’t matter. Yes, just your desire. When in your heart you want to change the Holy Spirit helps. There are times you might fall but that’s just a consequence of our nature.

 

[CharismaticLady]

So this person would then be perfect correct?... or at the very least they would never commit the same sin more then once?

This is why we are commanded to walk in the Spirit. It is the only way to be consistently free from sin and saved.

 

[CharismaticLady]

A struggle implies a desire to do right. A practice is when you have not desire but you’re comfortable with your conduct or simply don’t care.

No, I know you think that seems right, but that is what it was like for those who knew the laws of God, but still had the SIN NATURE. It is not the law that was at fault, it was the sin nature that causes the struggle. BUT, through repentance, and being honest with God that they are weak and struggling, Jesus will give you His own Spirit to give you supernatural strength by giving you the DIVINE NATURE.

See the difference? Those still struggling do not have the divine nature, thus are not born again of the Spirit. Just knowing about Jesus is not enough - even the demons believe and tremble.

 

[bèlla]

There are lots of people that believe in God but simply not in the same way as you or I.

We must view things of the God from His perspective not our own. Only He can ascertain whether the person’s behavior is the result of ignorance or a conscious rejection of Him.

The latter promotes rebellion which leads to lawlessness. Think of a bottomless pit. That’s where this goes. There’s no end in sight.

 

[Loversofjesus_2018]

This is why we are commanded to walk in the Spirit. It is the only way to be consistently free from sin and saved.

Although that sounds lovely and I think it’s awesome if you are able to walk in the spirit 100% of the time and never fall short... I can only speak for myself when I ask wouldn’t it be pretty difficult? How hard was it to make sure your loving your neighbor as yourself everyday?

 

[brinny]

Must we Love perfectly, or always be always perfect in Love...?

What if we fail or fall short of perfect Love even one time...?

Jesus Christ is "perfection".

Not "us".

The Bible is crystal clear on this, all throughout it.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Although that sounds lovely and I think it’s awesome if you are able to walk in the spirit 100% of the time and never fall short... I can only speak for myself when I ask wouldn’t it be pretty difficult? How hard was it to make sure your loving your neighbor as yourself everyday?

You start out each morning, dying to self, as Paul did. Remember there are only two categories that go to heaven, and two that go to hell, Revelation 22:11. No one goes to heaven still struggling with unrighteousness.

 

[brinny]

Although that sounds lovely and I think it’s awesome if you are able to walk in the spirit 100% of the time and never fall short... I can only speak for myself when I ask wouldn’t it be pretty difficult? How hard was it to make sure your loving your neighbor as yourself everyday?

It is only possible through God's grace and HIS power, not "ours".

 

[CharismaticLady]

It is only possible through God's grace and HIS power, not "ours".

Yes, good. His grace IS His power given to us.

Acts 4:33
33 And with great power the apostles gave witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And great grace was upon them all.

This is an example of the Semitic writing style of "parallelisms." The one explains and confirms the other. Thus here the apostle is saying that grace is God's power. Grace does not mean God overlooking our sin as we keep sinning as false doctrines in the Church for over 500 years still claim.

 

[eleos1954]

What is "lawlessness"...? Or who are the "people of lawlessness"...?

It cannot be people who do not keep all of the OT Law perfectly, cause none of us do perfectly...?

And it cannot be the people that think they do, because they are wrong and are deceiving themselves and their own minds...?

So what is it...? And who are they...?

Discuss...?

Comments...?

Scripture refers to the "mystery of lawlessness" and the lawless one or ones being revealed, so, what is it and who are they...?

God Bless!

The law was given on mount Sinai, by Jesus.

His law if kept perfectly promote and keep perfect love and harmony with Him.

All the law was fulfilled in Him. Without Him we are unable to keep the law, because we have a sinful nature.

When we receive Him as our savior He begins working (through the holy spirit) in us bringing us/changing us over our lifetime here on earth into more conformity to His nature of love (that includes His law) and thereby having a close relationship with Him while we are here on earth.

His commandments are laws of love.

John 14:21
Whoever has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me. The one who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and reveal Myself to him."

When He returns, He will change us completely get rid of all our sin and complete our transformation ... we will be like Him and we will be with Him.

Phillippians 1

6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

1 John 3:2
New Living Translation
Dear friends, we are already God’s children, but he has not yet shown us what we will be like when Christ appears. But we do know that we will be like him, for we will see him as he really is.

so ... yes ... His laws are eternal, He will do His work, and because of His great sacrifice ... those in Him will be seen as blameless because we are covered by His blood ... and the shedding of His blood fulfilled the Law completely.

Hebrews 9
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
22 Because all things are purged by blood in The Written Law, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

Thank you Jesus! AMEN!

The mystery of lawlessness

Paul tells us specifically what the "unrighteous deception" 2nd Thessalonians 2:10 is for which the people depart. In verse 7, he names it "the mystery of lawlessness," a set of beliefs that is totally contrary to "the truth" (verses 10-12). This deception is "the lie" that satan has always foisted on mankind—that we do not need to obey God's law Genesis 3:4; Romans 1:21-25.

 

[bèlla]

What if they attempt to cease but still struggle? Is perfection possible where a person no longer has to wrestle with sin?

Paul addresses this in Romans 7.

For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out.

For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me.

So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand. For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being, but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members.

Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?

Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.

That is our struggle laid bare.

 

[brinny]

Yes, good. His grace IS His power given to us.

Acts 4:33
33 And with great power the apostles gave witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And great grace was upon them all.

This is an example of the Semitic writing style of "parallelisms." The one explains and confirms the other. Thus here the apostle is saying that grace is God's power. Grace does not mean God overlooking our sin as we keep sinning as false doctrines in the Church for over 500 years still claim.

Amen.

 

[Ken Rank]

Not cultural. It is in the Text itself.

From Strong's summary:

Strong's Number H8451 matches the Hebrew תּוֹרָה (towrah),
which occurs 219 times in 213 verses in the Hebrew concordance of the KJV

Actually all it says is "Moses wrote the whole Torah." But what is Torah? Ask you and it's the first 5 books that INCLUDE MOSES' death which he obviously wrote? Ask an Orthodox Jew and he will include the Talmud. But Scripturally, Moses wrote the commandments... the compilation of which we call Torah.

Actually it is:

1 Corinthians 10:11
Now these things happened to them [history] as an example, and they were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.

Nice try... Paul words were well after the fact. We are dealing with Moses... which you are suggesting he wrote all the history as well. You only have Jewish tradition and that lens which you read Scripture through, to support you.

I like how you ignored the comment about your own tradition saying that Shem had a school. Think he taught history there, Dave?

 

[Ken Rank]

So where is the line drawn? From time to time your fine but if you do it this many times your lawless? Someone can the intent to be perfect and mess up so much that to another person it may seem as if their intent is bad when it is not.

Yeshua told us that it is adultery to take another mans wife, did he not? Didn't he also say that to lust in your heart for the same is equal to already having done the same deed? Our walk isn't easy.. and God will forgive anyone, 7 times or 70 X 7 times... when it is done without intent to rebel against Him. We can and will fail... but when we KNOW what He expects and we go and do something else entirely, deliberately, against His will??? That is where the line is drawn! And I can actually show that in the language itself.

Blessings.
Ken

 

[AlexDTX]

But what if your right isn’t my right and your wrong isn’t my wrong? Then where do you go from there?

Your question is from human decision. I did not say human. I spoke of the knowledge of right and wrong that God puts in our hearts and conscience.

 

[PJ76]

What’s the difference between struggling with sin and practicing sin?

Sin does not mean lawlessness. Sin is one form of lawlessness, but is not same meaning as lawlessness. Sin and lawlessness are two different words in Greek. And each word have different meanings.

 

[ChicanaRose]

It cannot be people who do not keep all of the OT Law perfectly, cause none of us do perfectly...?

I am wondering if it means a person who feels no remorse for sin, because we all struggle with sin.