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Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Tutorman, Aug 18, 2017.

  1. Tutorman

    Tutorman Charismatic Episcopalian

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    with people wanting to live under the law of death instead of the Grace of Christ and wanted everyone else to live in their crazy notions?
     
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  2. Dkh587

    Dkh587 David דויד Supporter

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    What's wrong with wanting to obey God and not eat abominable and unclean animals?
     
  3. Tutorman

    Tutorman Charismatic Episcopalian

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    Because it is not for Christians, it's a desire to do good works to enter Heaven. What a person eats does not matter nor can it save a person only what is in the heart matters. Is Christ your Salvation or is the Law plus Christ what you think saves you.
     
  4. Dkh587

    Dkh587 David דויד Supporter

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    What's wrong with wanting to do good works?

    Check out what Paul said:

    Acts of the Apostles 26:20
    Paul taught to repent, turn to God, and show works that prove our repentance.

    Check out how the NLT renders this verse:

    I preached first to those in Damascus, then in Jerusalem and throughout all Judea, and also to the Gentiles, that all must repent of their sins and turn to God--and prove they have changed by the good things they do.
     
  5. Tutorman

    Tutorman Charismatic Episcopalian

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    Nothing but your idea is that it is part of Salvation to obey the law and it's not, accept Christ not live in the law that brings death. The only thing that the law brings is death, Christ brings life.
     
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  6. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    What you eat or don't eat isn't my business and is fine. Nothing wrong with that. The moment someone decides that it's up to them to tell me what I can and can't eat and accuse God of their moral busybodying, then it becomes very wrong.

    Don't want to eat rabbit, bacon, or crab? Then don't. But you are no more righteous than someone who does eat these things because the Christian is under no obligation to observe kashrut.

    -CryptoLutheran
     
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  7. Dkh587

    Dkh587 David דויד Supporter

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    Well, I'm not trying to pry into your life, but as believers, It shouldn't be unexpected for someone to teach the truth to other believers about what the word of God says. So if you feel that I've stepped on your toes because of what I posted, then maybe you should reconsider what I posted and take a second glance and study further and really accept the Word for what it really says.

    I'm not busybodying. I just shared a small teaching with everyone.

    I was showing things in Scripture to prove my point that eating swine & unclean animals is 1 example of what causes uncleanness, which is a work of the flesh according to the Apostle Paul.[/quote]

    I definitely won't be eating those.

    I never said I was more righteous. i just avoid unclean animals, per the commandments of God. If someone wants to eat unclean animals, even though they know they are abominable and defiling(God's words, not mine), then that's between them & God. I can't help it if you don't like me sharing the word, whatever it may be. I'm sure I could step on some toes with many more topics, just by teaching what the Word says
     
  8. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

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    Don't know.
    I guess Jesus was right about this:

    Ezekiel 38:21 Then will I call against him every terror, declareth My Lord Yahweh.
    The sword of every man against his brother shall be;

    [Matt 10:34/Revelation 6:4]

    Luke 12:51 Ye are supposing that peace I came to give in the land. Nay! I am saying to ye,
    but rather division/diamerismon <1267>


    Matt 10:34 “Do not think that I came to bring peace on the land. I did not come to bring peace but a sword.

    Reve 6:4 And came forth another horse, firey, and to the one sitting on him was given to him to be taking the Peace from the land and that one another they should be slaying
    and was given to him a great Sword

    [Ezekiel 38:21/Matt 10:34

    ................[​IMG]
     
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  9. devin553344

    devin553344 I believe in the Resurrection

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    I think there is something that justifies us by obeying the commandment, or at least we think there is when God forgives us of past sins.

    But I do like the Holy Spirit of Love, Joy, Peace, Faith, Goodness, Gentleness, Longsuffering, Meekness and Temperance. Which comes with following Jesus' teachings :)
     
  10. Aino

    Aino God's own

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    Reading the Epistle to Galatians could do you some good. There Paul points out very clearly that whoever tries to live according to the law gets condemned by it and whoever lives by faith shall live by it. God doesn't want to save you so you could quit eating pork. He saves you so that you could live an eternal life in Heaven. Abiding the jewish law was never intended for the gentiles.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2017
  11. Dkh587

    Dkh587 David דויד Supporter

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    Galatians mostly deals with people who teach salvation is through the law of God - I don't teach that. I teach that we should not disobey God's law once we come to salvation in Christ

    For example, when we read/study the law after coming to Christ, we find out all the sins that we should be repenting of. The law is how we find out what sin is - we can repent when we know what we are doing that qualifies as sin according to the law of God

    Salvation through Christ does not mean we are free to disobey God's commandments. Anybody teaching us to that it's okay to disobey God's commandments is teaching and promoting lawlessness.

    And it's not "Jewish" law. It's God's law. Sometimes it is also called the law of Moses. God gave his law to Moses.
     
  12. Aino

    Aino God's own

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    By teaching someone under the law of grace that they'll now have to start obeying the law of works you put heavy burdens on people, and those burdens are ones you won't be able to carry yourself. Teach God's mercy and grace instead, then you'll have something to offer to people. You don't profit from doing works commanded in the mosaic laws, you just dig your own grave where you'll fall when judgement falls. You're trying to add some of your own to the gospel and thereby you make it worthless. Repent from your selfish desire to please God with your empty actions and turn to him for mercy and freedom in Christ.
     
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  13. nonaeroterraqueous

    nonaeroterraqueous Nonexistent Member

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    Frankly, I don't want to eat any animals, clean or unclean, but I just don't feel good without sufficient protein. Anyway, like I've said before, if you believe that unclean animals are still unclean, then you're doomed. You, as a human, fit the description of an unclean animal. A pig is a pig, whether it eats rabbit and shellfish, or whether it eats only beef an vegetables. This was always the case with humanity. Sin was an affliction that could not be gotten rid of, by any means, prior to the atonement of Christ. You're attempting to do what never worked, while denying the power of the only thing that ever has.
     
  14. Dkh587

    Dkh587 David דויד Supporter

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    Do you not realize that Christ taught obedience to God's commands?

    First, he said the #1 commandment is Deuteronomy 6:4-5 ESV
    Let me point out, that when you study further to find out what it means to love God with all of our heart, soul and might, it is directly connected to obeying his law.

    And the #2 commandment is Leviticus 19:18 ESV
    So as you see, the 2 most important things are from the Law of God, also known as the Law of Moses.

    These are not the only commands that are to be obeyed.

    Do you really think that Christ preached and taught and lived a life contrary to God's law? NO!

    He showed us the proper way to obey God's law! Christ is our example. The way of life that the law teaches us to live, is personified and displayed in Christ. Surely you would agree with that?
     
  15. bbbbbbb

    bbbbbbb Well-Known Member

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    What is the purpose for you in keeping the Law?
     
  16. Dkh587

    Dkh587 David דויד Supporter

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    To be obedient to God & Christ
     
  17. bbbbbbb

    bbbbbbb Well-Known Member

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    Does anyone benefit from your obedience?
     
  18. Noxot

    Noxot OwO Supporter

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    I think a lot of things would be cleared up if we realized that doing good works because of God IS the kingdom of heaven. humans also have a problem with trying to force others to be part of their own tribe and what follows is the rejection of others who are not part of their tribe.

    it's in the biology of the flesh to be this way, they are survival mechanisms and they worked well enough to get us to where we now are. but spirit demands a higher and more integrated mode of being.

    I think that the modern world is to blame, at least it's part of the reason why things are how they are. humans probably lived in close-nit tribes for far longer than they have lived in modern worlds. being in a simple tribe helped out people because everyone for the most part had a good enough agreement one with another and they probably cooperated better and depended on one another more.

    now our modern world is far more complex and some people are trying to shape a stable thing to stand on in the midst of all the chaos. a lot of us are around so many other people that we don't even know very well at all. american individualism is a great thing but in some ways it helped to separate us even more.

    i'm sure books and books could be written about why things are how they are.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    the law is spiritual and that is the only way it is good. if you try to follow the law according to the letter you will stumble over your own folly. some of what is written in the law is outright immoral compared to the standards we have in the modern world. the law is for sinners and grace is for those who no longer wish to sin. the law is only fulfilled in Christ, the vail of moses is taken away in him to reveal the liberty of the Sons of God. Christ fulfills the law and transcends it and reveals a higher way of living than mere law could ever offer because we are living souls and even life giving spirits.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2017
  19. Aino

    Aino God's own

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    You've heard the gospel preached to you. You listen but don't hear. You only hear the law. You've taken a burden for yourself from the law, even though you'd only be righteous through God's mercy. You burden yourself and others with the law. It's a disgrace to God.

    The purpose of the law was to show people are sinful and thereby not worthy to enter the kingdom of heaven because of their actions. The purpose of the gospel, and of the coming of Jesus Christ is to show everyone how much God loves people. It is to save people from trying to enter heaven with their own deeds, that are dirty and sinful regardless of what you try to do or claim to do. People sin. You sin. Period. Making yourself follow commands that were not addressed to you won't make you any holier. They make your sins even worse.

    You only quote from the torah. Don't you understand that a christian lives in a world where the words of the prophets have already been fulfilled? The torah is part of jewish history, and our history too since Jesus was a jew. He fulfilled the law, and made us free from it. We are not under the law but under grace. The entire New Testament, gospels, acts and epistles scream to you: do not follow your law, follow Jesus.
     
  20. Biblicist

    Biblicist Full Gospel believer

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    Oh well, it's an age old thing in that when people begin to lose connection with the Father they seem to adopt numerous strange ways about them.
     
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