What is Faith?

timewerx

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I believe Jesus told the rich man to do your opening statement. That is because he was wealthy and that is where his heart was, and Jesus was right there with him.

A respectable, multinational company offers a Christian a very nice job, no strings attached, he took it right away.

Some stranger who claims to be guided by the Holy Spirit tells this Christian to go live and settle permanently in a foreign country far away together with his family. The country is war torn, dominated by Muslims and desperately needing the Gospel for no other Christian/family is brave enough to live and settle there. He had serious doubts, he even dismiss the stranger for thinking he/she's of the devil.

Where do you think this Christian's heart is??

The second paragraph is clearly God's Will and what Jesus commands - go make disciples of all nations, preach the Gospel to the ends of the Earth. It obviously includes places that are extremely dangerous but sadly, starving of the Gospel for no Christian is brave enough to preach the Gospel to them??

Do you think it's God's will for his people to starve from the Gospel?? It's because very few Christians only wants to do God's Will, God's work! If it's hard, if it's dangerous, most would never think it's God's Will for them!

For they love their lives and their families more than God. They are not worthy of Him.. They will lose everything!

Would you think Jesus would never ask you something radical and really hard, I bet he would!

For the rich man loved his possessions, and Jesus demanded him to sell those...

Do you think that is easy, do you think that is not radical?? Try selling your house, everything inside, empty your bank, give all the money to the poor. Do you think that is easy?

Most Christians assume God will never ask them anything too hard and too dangerous. But look at the rich man, he went home sad and broken in the spirit!

We all can't roam the Earth without a home and poor just to follow Christ.
That is why we need to build our faith. It's also useless to have a home when Christ commanded to go to all nations, to the ends of the Earth to find the Lost Sheep.

Jesus came to turn the world upside down! Guess what? It never gonna happen, unless more Christians do something really crazy (from a secular perspective)

Do you think we could ever catch the attention of the world, doing and running after the things even the unbelievers run after?? Never!!

Have you ever read of real heroes?? Men and women who sacrificed their everything, lived as poor even sacrificed their own lives just for the welfare of the many! They made it to the history books.. They impacted the world significantly. They may not say the name of Jesus but I tell you what, they are closer to God than many who profess to know him!

He tells us not to build our treasures in this world (physical) but in Heaven (spirit) which is to not live beyond our means. And when we give to the least of these (poor) we have given unto him (tithe).
Beyond our means according to Prophet John, is having more than one set of clothes and food for daily survival.

According to Jesus, in addition to Prophet John, a bag, purse, a boat. But note there.. The bag and purse is being used solely as a tool for the Gospel. All the money and goods they receive, either were used for basic needs - food and for the Gospel. The boat they use to get food - fish and for transport. None were used for personal things like recreation, hobbies, saving in the bank (non-Gospel). Only one disciple who did that is Judas.

Today, "beyond our means" is contextually twisted. Today, it simply means living outside of debt... Meaning, it's still good to get rich first, so you can spend on more without going to debt.

Jesus is no longer wanting your 10% He wants your 90 or even 99%!

Of course the church doesn't agree, and they want 10% of your hard earned money for themselves, and they'll give some to the poor.
It's not the churches' problem, it's your problem. Jesus never advocated physical buildings and big congregations in the first place.

We are ALL called to be peddlers of the Gospel, not be Sunday bench warmers. Not only peddling the Gospel where it suits us, in our workplace, most popularly.

But get to those who are hardly hearing the Gospel. Who will reach them?? No Christian is brave enough?? Cowards will not be allowed in God's Kingdom!
 
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strangertoo

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Did you not profess to live without sin?

how many times my friend? ... it is up to God whom He forgives past sins by looking on the heart to see who still wants to sin, who has truly stopped even desiring to sin... men can all lie , even to themselves and do, so it is God who decides, not us... by looking on the heart... one cannot fool God even if one fools oneself that one has stopped sinning and is this worthy of grace...

thus it is a sin to presume on God's judgement and claim to be saved by grace as many do... it would indeed be tempting God and ill advised one is to lsiten to any sinner tempting one to do so...
 
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x141

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And how much of it do we have to have?

I have been pondering this all of my life. I have always asked God to allow me to keep what faith I have and to give me more of it..........daily.

Faith, to me is believing that Jesus and his message of eternal life is real to the best of our ability.

But there is always going to be a doubt, as there is never a 100% faith factor. Even Jesus said if we had the faith the size of a mustard seed........

So I'm trying to think how much faith is needed? We all sin.

Faith is not a substance but the person of God. It is neither gained or lost or something to be added to or taken away from. The smallness of this seed is as the thought that could add a cubit to your stature. Doubt in this sense is a seed of a serpent.

Jer_23:24 ... Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the LORD.
 
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strangertoo

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Consider an alternative. Right now, this very century, the "Y" Chromosome is disappearing from the human genome with every generation. This means that with each succeeding birth, there will be more females, and fewer males born, till there are none at all.
... there is a guy, so dedicated that it is his determination alone which eliminated smallpox ...and expert in population decline ... and he states categorically that mankind will not see the next century ... there are many reasons he cites and all are listed by Jesus and the prophets some prophecies thousands of years ago ... only now can we see how they come true and watch it happen ... it's just incredible that so many things are going wrong all at once ,but most amazing is the denial ...

Technologically, women could keep going by splicing egg cells....which would make every birth a "virgin" birth. Of a female. If they chose not to just let the race die out.
besides that attempts to do that failed abysmally , the offspring not viable because genetic material, whilst required ,isn't enough ... we really aren't gonna be here that long ...the great tribulations starts in earnest after Jesus leaves with a few tens of thousands of [resurrected as necessary] translated saints and that is only three and a half years after world power by the final antichrist ...who fools all mass religion that he is God and Christ with a few rigged 'miracles' and the fact he rules the whole earth , the declared aim of the NWO , 'neo-Zionists, already in charge of the core of all major governments and religions worldwide... under intense pressure to unite the four sectors of the world individually first and then into one , before capitalism busts itself[as theory proves it must]...

There has been the Time of the Father, and the time of the Son. Perhaps to complete the circle there will be a time of the Mother and the Daughter.
Nay, the time of Jesus is scarcely begun in THIS world , he does not rule more that a few tens of thousands of saints until the new earth where they rule the gentile masses under him [and death , a second death, is the legal penalty for sin]

but Jesus is not just the beginning [John1:1] but the end too , so his government expands until including those killed for sin in the kingdom come too :-

Isaiah 9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgement and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

its better then for saints , next time around , righteousness to Love is normal in the new earth... all folks have been baptised of the spirit to kow all Truth of God and the future... and there is only thus any need for baptism of fire [trial of Love to perfect it, for those freed from sin a second time who seek mercy in turning to love in the Lake of fire, realising they cannot live by sin amongst the most evil of men with no 'easy prey' left to them as God has already saved the many -Rev 7:9-10]

"Prophesies" have a strange way of being fulfilled in unexpected ways. When everybody was looking right, Jesus came in from the left.
yes, folks rarely understand prophecies because Satan has the grip of mass religion already... cannot afford the Truth not to be drowned out by thousands of lies for every shred of Truth...
As for the rest, I don't have to disprove anything. I've had my own revelation. I've come to terms with it in the only way it is possible. For me.
it's a 'problem' though , Satan does fool almost everyone in this life... no way around that because God doesn't bother creating the kingdom for the billions until they are all dead...[and Satan too, dead , to prove he is no god, for he does not want to die, unlike Jesus who chooses to obey Love and die to show everyone, in particular the few saints, that there is absolutely nothing to be afraid of in death... it has no sting whatever, just queues folks up for teh kingdom come and frees them from sin ready for spirit baptism]

One does not choose to become a Gnostic. No one one of any intelligence would--- and they say mine is off the charts.
oops ...I don't think there are any charts ... there is flattery though by sinners... enlisters... like the new covenant says, God teaches all who are His Himself , no saint ever teaches a saint because God does so to keep the teaching pure ... sinners teach sinners religious nonsense [soothsayings and fear myths] and saints teach sinners because it is the only way to find the next generation of saints... but no saints ever taught a saint...no need...they all know from God, ONE absolute Truth... of Love , of the great Plan of Love for all [because rather obviously it would not be Love of God if God did not Love all enough to save everyone from the lies ... but it takes a time, men are stubborn about acquired beliefs , things they call faith which are only belief in their favourite sinner , not from God Himself

Consider how many times we get spit on---how many of us were burned at the stake, locked up and tortured. By people we still call "brother". When two Gnostics get together, even if we have never met....we have the same teaching. We didn't get it from books. We didn't choose it. It chose us.
well it matters not in the end, but the whole world unites behind a lie in this earth... and somehow they come to believe in Satan as God ... so I'm thinking if one is resisting this mass belief because of what is revealed to one then likely one is part of Jesus' movement of saints, not Satan's movement of almost all men to sin... and there is conscience to help verify what is good, what is not.... but in simple probability [not that it is chance] it is about three million to one against one becoming a saint in this life... and no great shakes if one fails , almost all do and countless many are saved in the kingdom come ,it's a lot easier to Love when everyone who doesn't Love gets killed... [but only after one has seen that death is no threat to anyone, just a way of freeing those reluctant to love from their sin to try again]

So back to the question, "what is faith?". Again I say, it is trust. I have trust in the God of Love.
trust in Love is indeed faith in God, but requires one does not fool oneself with words , Love is doing God's Plan and that does have extreme demands in this life, demands only one in three million alive today will fulfil... it is not an easy yoke except on one's conscience and happiness... almost all saints die young for sake of the Truth of God... as Jesus did ...it entails doing what Jesus commands and few are prepared to do that , few even know who the House of Israel were let alone spending all their money and time looking for them amongst the poor of the world, half-starved because of sharing with all they meet [50,000 a day starve to death in misery in this world already, a number increasing rapidly... saints are unable to stem this tide caused by the abuses of capitalism - but so doing what they can leaves them weak with hunger , suffering with the suffering poor most want to forget are only caused by their 'lifestyle'

I do not have trust in the "prophets". Nor do I believe there really were, or are such men.
I think Jesus is a prophet... and it's quite uncanny how all supposed prophets of God agree down the ages on the future... some events of which we can check have already happened.... but God does not require anyone to believe the prophets, only to believe Him in spirit baptism once one has stopped sinning, stopped desiring to sin [because sin is abuse and involves lying to oneself, one's conscience, one's spirit, one's heart of Love]

The God of Love may have fulfilled the part about sending a Son, taking the wind out of the false god, but being God, and a LOVING God, that gives Him the right. So no, I don't put faith in writings, even for a second. I have faith, or trust, that God, the TRUE God, will work things out in a loving peaceful manner, even if the end appears anything but.
me too, I changed my belief to belief based upon faith in Love a long time ago [realising we start life with such faith, then lose it] ... and indeed when one stops desiring to sin God does help, but first one must face God's Truth about oneself... from God ... that almost killed me [not that I have any great desire to live in this world], I was almost dead , barely able to move for three days, all because I wasn't ready to repent all that God said is wrong with me... I had no idea ,it overwhelmed me how far I had lost sight of Love in life... in effect I had tempted God without being fully aware I was doing so... another 'inch' and it would have been the kingdom, not this earth... for my trial [baptism of fire] ... I scarcely care, I had ashed God if I could stay to make sure others make it , he said no, then spares my life and I scarce know why, not because I love it anyway.... I hate this world, it is almost unbearable to just be here as men destroy each other daily and call it 'progress', 'growth'... just Satan's lies... and we have scarce begun his rule here although one can see the power building toward one man owning the world through deceit of all mankind,the NWO is no longer as covert as it once was, men are already dependent upon institutionalised sin for life... to be a saint one has to put up with what very few have any will to put up with... the longsuffering is as intense as that which made Jesus sweat blood, few are prepared to do that for Love of God as Jesus and the saints have done...

as for Gnosticism, it clearly has many connections with secret societies and their blood oaths, and indeed the NWO and its blatant Satanism but one cannot judge individuals by the movements they get involved in... even one as close to Satan's power as these... God can and will save now whom He sees will fit His role as kings and priests of the kingdom, and God has PROVEN quite deliberately that Love can save anyone, will save everyone...so anyone would be foolish indeed to judge anything before God does... there are for instance hundreds of Jews who currently deny Jesus is their Messiah who will be priests of his kingdom come ... it is nowhere near the time to judge... we know from prophecy [!] by most prophets of God that we have at least three and a half years before Jesus returns... since the antichrist is not in power ... we have some clues that the next pope could we be the final antichrist ... if he be a Jew of the tribe of Judah it will be true to prophecy ... and well the current pope is none too sturdy ... but anyway , our problem really is ourselves, are we ready to stop sinning and Love enough to follow Jesus in almost unbearable trial of Love... most are not,but then God requires so very few and has most of them already...
 
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Phantasman

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Faith is not a substance but the person of God. It is neither gained or lost or something to be added to or taken away from. The smallness of this seed is as the thought that could add a cubit to your stature. Doubt in this sense is a seed of a serpent.

Jer_23:24 ... Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the LORD.

I do not believe this. Faith in itself can exist without God. It is what we have faith in, is what makes us different. And Jesus (and Paul) uses orations that utilize measures of faith ("oh ye of little faith", "though I have all faith").
 
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Soulgazer

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as for Gnosticism, it clearly has many connections with secret societies and their blood oaths, and indeed the NWO and its blatant Satanism but one cannot judge individuals by the movements they get involved in... even one as close to Satan's power as these... God can and will save now whom He sees will fit His role as kings and priests of the kingdom, and God has PROVEN quite deliberately that Love can save anyone, will save
Whoa...slow down. I'm an acting bishop, with nobody but Christ and my congregation above me in the pecking order. There is NO, I repeat No, capital "N" capital "O" connection with anything but Christ. NO "NWO", no "Satanism" no "Occultism", no "Blood Oath" or any "Oath" of any kind. Most Gnostics I know are Libertarian, if they get involved with politics at all. Let your ayes be ayes and your nays be nays. Just the spirit of Truth. That means knowing what you know and knowing what you believe and never confusing the two.

Will the whole world be fooled? Absolutely. They are already. Do I control that? No. I just try not to let myself get fooled---but if I get fooled so what? I'd be the victim not the perpetrator.

God is Love. If one is a loving person, caring for everyone they meet regardless of station or disposition, then one is doing God's will. If not then "The foolish - thinking in their heart that if they confess, "We are Christians," in word only (but) not with power, while giving themselves over to ignorance, to a human death, not knowing where they are going nor who Christ is, thinking that they will live, when they are (really) in error - hasten towards the principalities and authorities. They fall into their clutches because of the ignorance that is in them. For (if) only words which bear testimony were effecting salvation, the whole world would endure this thing and would be saved.".(Testimony of Truth)

Want to know what God isn't? Unloving, unmerciful, a liar, a killer, a land grabber. Sure, you can go in the various scriptures from all the various religions and find written examples where a man said He was those things, or a man said He commanded those things. The man condemns himself and anyone who believes him. "all that ever came before me are as thieves and robbers", said Jesus, yet who believes Him, even when the examples are written down for the whole world to see?

So no, I don't worry about what was written by thieves and robbers. If you knew that an apple on a tree had been injected with cyanide, but not which one, would you let your grand kids eat off from it? No, of course not. So if there are 99 verses that are from God, and one from a "Satan".....but you don't know which one....and Jesus pointed out some so we know they are there........you going to let them eat from that tree?

Not me. The whole world is fooled.
 
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TasteForTruth

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And how much of it do we have to have?

I have been pondering this all of my life. I have always asked God to allow me to keep what faith I have and to give me more of it..........daily.

Faith, to me is believing that Jesus and his message of eternal life is real to the best of our ability.

But there is always going to be a doubt, as there is never a 100% faith factor. Even Jesus said if we had the faith the size of a mustard seed........

So I'm trying to think how much faith is needed? We all sin.
This is what I understand the scriptures teach about faith... "NOW faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." (Hebrews 11:1) According to Paul, faith is not belief. It is knowledge—evidence of things not seen. Some statements which we might craft from what Paul said:

Faith is knowledge of truths which cannot be proven using temporal means but which will be made known to us in absoluteness at a future time. Example: God exists. Christ is our Savior. If you "know" either of these things it is by faith (unless God has manifested Himself to you!) that you know it.

Faith is knowledge of events which have not yet occurred, but which assuredly will occur. It is also knowledge of events which have already occurred, but which we neither witnessed nor whose occurrence we have any way to prove with absoluteness. Examples: Christ was born. Christ died. Christ was resurrected. Christ will come again. If you "know" any of these things it is by faith that you know them.

Faith is knowledge that you will obtain a promised thing, although the fulfillment of that promise (aka, the obtaining the promised thing) is in the future, and therefore unseen. Example: Eternal life. If you "know" that you will receive eternal life, it is by faith that you know it.

So faith is not mere belief; it is much more than that. It is knowledge of things which are true, but which are not yet seen. For example, the man who has faith and who exercises that faith will unequivocally see his faith realized at some future time. The man who merely believes something may or may not see his belief realized at some future time. Two totally different things. It's not common, I admit, to speak of faith as knowledge, but knowledge it is.

That's my understanding, for whatever it's worth to you. :)
 
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x141

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I do not believe this. Faith in itself can exist without God. It is what we have faith in, is what makes us different. And Jesus (and Paul) uses orations that utilize measures of faith ("oh ye of little faith", "though I have all faith").

Faith is the gift of God and works by Love who God Himself is, and this faith he gives to every man ... If it existed and works without God then all of creation itself came to be without faith and without God as well. Our faith becomes measured by our thoughts or soul which is why every thought is to be brought into the obedience of Christ, or we are to lose our soul/life, a death, that the Life that is in us might be revealed.

It's good to note that the words substance and person in these verses are the same word.

Heb 11:1Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

If faith works by love, and you have all faith, you would have all love, and therefore could not have all faith without firstly having all love.


 
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Phantasman

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I don't think he gets it Phantasman.

We all have the free will to choose our beliefs and there are no right or wrongs as long as we all follow Christ in our hearts the best we can. We won't be judged on what we compile in our minds, but how the love in our hearts are shown to our neighbors by our deeds and our continued love for God above all.

He is still my brother whom I am proud of, because he professes Jesus as Lord above all Lords and God above all, and speaks his heart. The battle ground is against evil, not against other Christians.
 
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Phantasman

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This is what I understand the scriptures teach about faith... "NOW faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." (Hebrews 11:1) According to Paul, faith is not belief. It is knowledge—evidence of things not seen. Some statements which we might craft from what Paul said:

Faith is knowledge of truths which cannot be proven using temporal means but which will be made known to us in absoluteness at a future time. Example: God exists. Christ is our Savior. If you "know" either of these things it is by faith (unless God has manifested Himself to you!) that you know it.

Faith is knowledge of events which have not yet occurred, but which assuredly will occur. It is also knowledge of events which have already occurred, but which we neither witnessed nor whose occurrence we have any way to prove with absoluteness. Examples: Christ was born. Christ died. Christ was resurrected. Christ will come again. If you "know" any of these things it is by faith that you know them.

Faith is knowledge that you will obtain a promised thing, although the fulfillment of that promise (aka, the obtaining the promised thing) is in the future, and therefore unseen. Example: Eternal life. If you "know" that you will receive eternal life, it is by faith that you know it.

So faith is not mere belief; it is much more than that. It is knowledge of things which are true, but which are not yet seen. For example, the man who has faith and who exercises that faith will unequivocally see his faith realized at some future time. The man who merely believes something may or may not see his belief realized at some future time. Two totally different things. It's not common, I admit, to speak of faith as knowledge, but knowledge it is.

That's my understanding, for whatever it's worth to you. :)

Yes. I believe this.

For a Christian, when one prays and asks for something that usually goes beyond the normal expectations of physical explanations (ie, healing) and these prayers are answered, then the person experiences an escalation of faith. For Christians, this should be an accelerated experience. But not all prayers are probably answered, and one should understand that there are reasons.

But then:

By the same view, someone can give a vision of prophesy to a group of people for the same edification?

I don't know. I haven't heard one. The Bible said the Holy Spirit could, but Paul said they would be done away. To be honest, my view is I wouldn't say it cannot happen, but have never experienced it to happen. My wife believes it though. :D
 
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Phantasman

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Faith is the gift of God and works by Love who God Himself is, and this faith he gives to every man ... If it existed and works without God then all of creation itself came to be without faith and without God as well. Our faith becomes measured by our thoughts or soul which is why every thought is to be brought into the obedience of Christ, or we are to lose our soul/life, a death, that the Life that is in us might be revealed.

It's good to note that the words substance and person in these verses are the same word.

Heb 11:1Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

If faith works by love, and you have all faith, you would have all love, and therefore could not have all faith without firstly having all love.



Hmm. Making sense.:thumbsup:
 
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seeingeyes

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Yes. I believe this.

For a Christian, when one prays and asks for something that usually goes beyond the normal expectations of physical explanations (ie, healing) and these prayers are answered, then the person experiences an escalation of faith. For Christians, this should be an accelerated experience. But not all prayers are probably answered, and one should understand that there are reasons.

But then:

By the same view, someone can give a vision of prophesy to a group of people for the same edification?

I don't know. I haven't heard one. The Bible said the Holy Spirit could, but Paul said they would be done away. To be honest, my view is I wouldn't say it cannot happen, but have never experienced it to happen. My wife believes it though. :D

Then your wife will see it and you won't. Might wanna listen to her. ;)

For the more cynical among us (I myself have made a specific decision to be less cynical, but I haven't graduated to expecting a room full of people to get hit by future prophecy at the same time), we have faith based not on promises for the future, but actions of the past.

The scriptures old and new are chock full of God saying, "Remember what I did! Remember how I saved your bacon? Don't forget! I did it before and I'll do it again!"

Our faith in God is not based on some nebulous salesman's optimism, it's based on God's actions in this world. If you trust your wife to not clear out the bank account and run off to Vegas with Pedro, it isn't because you randomly hope that she will be a good wife, it's because she has shown herself to be trustworthy over the years.

Likewise with God. If He has shown Himself to be trustworthy, we will trust Him. If not, then we won't.

This is, I believe, where the children of God enter into His work. We trust God, so we make ourselves trustworthy to others. Then we ourselves become evidence of God's goodness and trustworthiness. Those new children, in turn, rely on God and do good for others, and they become evidence for God as well. And so on and so forth.
 
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he-man

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Yes. I believe this.

For a Christian, when one prays and asks for something that usually goes beyond the normal expectations of physical explanations (ie, healing) and these prayers are answered, then the person experiences an escalation of faith. For Christians, this should be an accelerated experience. But not all prayers are probably answered, and one should understand that there are reasons.

But then:

By the same view, someone can give a vision of prophesy to a group of people for the same edification?

I don't know. I haven't heard one. The Bible said the Holy Spirit could, but Paul said they would be done away. To be honest, my view is I wouldn't say it cannot happen, but have never experienced it to happen. My wife believes it though. :D
First, you must be called by God (John 6:44)

Secondly, you must accept His invitation to be called. 45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me

Finally you must you believe in Him whom He sent and realize For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
"Jesus answered and said to them, 'This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent'" (Ephesians 2:8)(John 6:29)
 
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TasteForTruth

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Yes. I believe this.

For a Christian, when one prays and asks for something that usually goes beyond the normal expectations of physical explanations (ie, healing) and these prayers are answered, then the person experiences an escalation of faith. For Christians, this should be an accelerated experience. But not all prayers are probably answered, and one should understand that there are reasons.
Interesting example. My experience is that most people do not pray for healing because they have faith that they will be healed, but because they have faith in God (in His power, judgment, mercy, etc.) and hope that they will be healed.

In the former, the person is praying for something which has already been promised—that he will be healed. In the latter, the person is praying for something which has not been promised. I think we'll find that when people start griping about God not hearing and answering their prayers to be healed (or for their loved ones to be healed), it is because they had no promise of healing but prayed as though they did. And when their prayers were not answered as expected, God was to blame and faith took a hit. A common challenge among those who believe in God, I believe.

But then:

By the same view, someone can give a vision of prophesy to a group of people for the same edification?

I don't know. I haven't heard one. The Bible said the Holy Spirit could, but Paul said they would be done away. To be honest, my view is I wouldn't say it cannot happen, but have never experienced it to happen. My wife believes it though. :D
Aren't the scriptures such a vision of prophecy? We were not there and did not hear or see what the writers heard and saw, but through their records we share the same visions of prophecy and are given faith on their account.
 
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nhisname

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Great question!

I think 'faith' is one of those words that loses meaning by becoming Christian jargon. (Not that there is anything wrong with jargon, per se, but we end up with one 'regular' meaning and one 'Christian' meaning. Which is confusing to those who aren't fluent in Christianese. :))

Faith is not mere mental assent. It isn't just convincing ourselves that something is real (whether it is or not.) Faith is trust.

So how much faith do we need? Let's bring it down to an earthly analogy:

Let's say your wife says, "I trust you." And then she follows you around everywhere you go to make sure that you aren't stepping out on her. Does she have faith in you? Nope. It doesn't matter how vehemently she claims to trust you if her actions show otherwise.

Now if we have faith (trust) in Jesus, how exactly would that change our behavior? What exactly is it that we expect him to do, or not do?

Faith grows as you mature in your relationship with the Lord. Just like a marriage it takes work. There will be a lot of tears and trials but you will get through it and your faith will only get stronger because of it. Communication is very important, pray, read and study this is how he talks to you. He may ask you to give up some things that at the time may seem painful but always remember he's always got your best interest at heart. After awhile you become so dependent on him it becomes your lifestyle.
 
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Hmm. Making sense.:thumbsup:


To me … faith can not be separated from God no more than the son can from the Father and of whom we are, as Jesus was, by this same faith. Our perception of, or the process (casting of the leaves) of the revealing of the wisdom, knowledge and understanding of this Faith is as far as east is from west. One is as a seed of a serpent the other seed of the woman. These are as two fruits of one tree. The third is the one, that the two cause to be a or TheTruth of One Glory, One Son to be cast down in (spiritually called Sodom, that great city) just as it is the third that is coming through the fire. A desolation that reveals that which has always been before the world was … by the Faith of God or the Word of God who is God.
Faith to me is an absolute that was before all things that we are being turned to see.
 
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strangertoo

sin is diabolical abuse of fellow humans-1John 3:8
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And how much of it do we have to have?

I have been pondering this all of my life. I have always asked God to allow me to keep what faith I have and to give me more of it..........daily.

Faith, to me is believing that Jesus and his message of eternal life is real to the best of our ability.

But there is always going to be a doubt, as there is never a 100% faith factor. Even Jesus said if we had the faith the size of a mustard seed........

So I'm trying to think how much faith is needed? We all sin.

... to quote it more accurately we all have sinned and the foundation of God is to stop abusing others with sin altogether... Jesus led the way showing that man can live with no sin at all... tens of thousands of saints have already followed him, stopped sinning so as to have PAST sin forgiven...

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Romans 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
but obviously one has not repented if one continues to sin after water baptism, and so will never receive spirit baptism until after death and resurrection frees one from sin one does not even desire to give up enough to stop abusing others and oneself with sin.

the scripture is clear :-

1 John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not:
whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him
...
1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil;


1 John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

grace does NOT cover continued sin in the least :-

Romans 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
 
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strangertoo

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Whoa...slow down. I'm an acting bishop, with nobody but Christ and my congregation above me in the pecking order.

there is no 'pecking order' in Jesus' scattered 'church' of saints ... all are taught by God directly in spirit baptism... none taught by one another as the new covenant states none is in charge except Jesus and he simply serves all [unlike most who set themselves 'in charge' of others ]

There is NO, I repeat No, capital "N" capital "O" connection with anything but Christ. NO "NWO", no "Satanism" no "Occultism", no "Blood Oath" or any "Oath" of any kind.

How then is it connected with world Gnosticism ? ... and perhaps more significantly why would anyone decide in belief/faith before spirit baptism in a mass religion with conglomerating when Jesus' following is so small and scattered ...

Do you know what the 'Christ' is ? Do you teach of the anointing of the Christ to the lost House of Israel worldwide? Do you know who they are, what they will be?

Mark 14:9 Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this gospel shall be preached throughout the whole world, this also that she hath done shall be spoken of for a memorial of her.

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Matthew 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

it does not matter to me of course , but without these things one is serving the wrong image of Christ of covert Satanism called Christianity [but of the one in place of Christ who must come first ]
Most Gnostics I know are Libertarian, if they get involved with politics at all. Let your ayes be ayes and your nays be nays. Just the spirit of Truth. That means knowing what you know and knowing what you believe and never confusing the two.

Satan won't unite world states and world mass religion of sinners for a few years yet ... and I've noticed that all groups in the loosely woven bundle are headed by a single men who thinks he is in charge and free of outside influence, it is subtle and clever and progressive entanglement with denial, not that it is of any concern of mine as I know how it fails too ... but any congregation by nature becomes dependent upon the NWO eventually, one of rather many reasons why the saints of God don't congregate in more than occasional groups of two or three any longer

Will the whole world be fooled? Absolutely. They are already. Do I control that? No. I just try not to let myself get fooled---but if I get fooled so what? I'd be the victim not the perpetrator.

just so... but there is a small difference which seems large to a few already, that if one doesn't get fooled then one gets to be with God sooner... [that's really what has been my main concern all my life though , from first consciousness even, whilst making offers to God to stay longer if so He requires of me ... but frankly to even watch the world now is almost unbearable pain to me,it isn't 'where' I want to be in myself]

God is Love. If one is a loving person, caring for everyone they meet regardless of station or disposition, then one is doing God's will.

Indeed, but one's 'concept of Love' changes at spirit baptism to hard meat of the truth about mankind and how God resolves all men to freely try Love by choice of it over sin ... as I found out almost lethally, we most scarcely know the depth of our sin to be able to Love, the first Truth that God reveals is the truth about oneself , just when one thinks one has mastered one's sin, the WHOLE picture , or at least as much as one can handle at once and stay alive [or not , if one tries in the least to hold on to any of it]

If not then "The foolish - thinking in their heart that if they confess, "We are Christians," in word only (but) not with power, while giving themselves over to ignorance, to a human death, not knowing where they are going nor who Christ is, thinking that they will live, when they are (really) in error - hasten towards the principalities and authorities. They fall into their clutches because of the ignorance that is in them. For (if) only words which bear testimony were effecting salvation, the whole world would endure this thing and would be saved.".(Testimony of Truth)

Yes, we surely both know that widespread nature of that subtle way of deluding many folks... and I often feel it is merciful that the many do not have the faintest idea of what following Jesus entails, they do not need to know and so the end comes without the trial God knows they do not want , would fail ... one must Love the Truth to find it , most think they love their beliefs until they fail ... if one wants lies there is a whole machine to provide support for that belief system and it even makes life 'comfortable' for some for a while [aside from the conflict inside] before utter catastropic failure... which only is escaped by saints or i death of sinners [who thus lost the opportunity to Love in this life and know the real God [of Love]

Want to know what God isn't? Unloving, unmerciful, a liar, a killer, a land grabber. Sure, you can go in the various scriptures from all the various religions and find written examples where a man said He was those things, or a man said He commanded those things. The man condemns himself and anyone who believes him. "all that ever came before me are as thieves and robbers", said Jesus, yet who believes Him, even when the examples are written down for the whole world to see?

if one considers endlessness of 'being' which creates [what to it are virtual] realities , endlessly creates worlds [ which are separate from it , hence it is 'holy', inviolate, perfect, unchanging, time-less] , then each world could be said to be essential , but one against as 'infinity' is perhaps not as important as we , some, may imagine we are... lol? ... whatever begins and ends is almost nothing, however essential... so is it at all surprising how pathetic the ways of getting a living [etc] of almost all men is to God... I mean it's pathetic to me, unbearable shame for so many living by lies of every kind and calling it 'civilised' or to some 'Libertarian' [as if men were free of Satan as liars, sinners... but denial , which is integral to lying, means almost none know their sin in this life, since it is integral to the rate of development of men and consequently to the masterpiece Plan of God that they are not going to ...

I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot:
I would thou wert cold or hot.
So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot,
I will spue thee out of my mouth.
Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods,
and have need of nothing;
and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable,
and poor, and blind, and naked:
I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire,
that thou mayest be rich;
and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed,
and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear;
and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten:
be zealous therefore, and repent.
Behold, I stand at the door, and knock:
if any man hear my voice, and open the door,
I will come in to him,
and will sup with him,
and he with me...
Revelation of Jesus the Christ of Israel 3:15-20

So no, I don't worry about what was written by thieves and robbers. If you knew that an apple on a tree had been injected with cyanide, but not which one, would you let your grand kids eat off from it? No, of course not. So if there are 99 verses that are from God, and one from a "Satan".....but you don't know which one....and Jesus pointed out some so we know they are there........you going to let them eat from that tree?
Not me.

well saints don't have grand-kids , but I see your point... but obviously it doesn't apply to saints or anyone they teach incidentally amongst the gentiles in their search for the house of Israel's descendants ... since God Himself teaches all saints of God... the scriptures are only a bonus to be able to read the words of other saints and how sinners mangle the Truth in bizarre claims that they can be saved without ceasing to abuse others with their sins.... endless arguments it seems about which sinner is the true founder [in place of Jesus!,as if we needed someone else's words who if they were a saint would never even try to found a mass religion , just as Jesus did not because they know God requires but a few, as kings and priests to the kingdom come, from this world]

The whole world is fooled.

indeed -Rev 13:3-4 - Jesus prophecy of just that...many implications
 
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dollarsbill

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how many times my friend? ... it is up to God whom He forgives past sins by looking on the heart to see who still wants to sin, who has truly stopped even desiring to sin... men can all lie , even to themselves and do, so it is God who decides, not us... by looking on the heart... one cannot fool God even if one fools oneself that one has stopped sinning and is this worthy of grace...

thus it is a sin to presume on God's judgement and claim to be saved by grace as many do... it would indeed be tempting God and ill advised one is to lsiten to any sinner tempting one to do so...
It's just that those who profess to live without sin expose themselves. Nobody in this life lives without sin.
 
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strangertoo

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our sins testify against us
for our transgressions are with us
and as for our iniquities, we know them...
Isaiah 59:4-12

because we know our sin , our abuse of others, from conscience, from heart of Love, from mind, from spirit.... thus we are GUILTY when we sin, but men deny their shame...

when we CHOOSE to stop abusing others, CHOOSE to obey Jesus and Love , not abuse, then and only then will God baptise of His spirit to KNOW all our sins we deny and so give us means to REPENT all sins, stop sinning AS God sees our sin, even those sins which are just desires in our hearts...

it is frankly absurd to say Jesus did not live without sin, inspiring already tens of thousands of saints to STOP SINNING and so receive unmerited forgiveness of PAST sins

Romans 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

thus indeed it would be a sin to profess one is without sin, it is NOT our call, but that is NOT a reason to keep sinning.... if one stops all sins one knows then God willhelp by showing one FIRST all sins one denies...

again it is absurd to deny what the saint says if one claims tobelieve scripture and Jesus :-

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

tens of thousands of saints already stopped sinning, so it is rather absurd to say men cannot stop sinning... Jesus proved one can live without abusing anyone... why claim he and the saints are lying , as if one really did need to abuse others to live...?

SHAME:
http://www.gspoetry.com/shame-reality-poems-545307.html
tainted distaste
this human race
hidden disgrace
at such a pace
tongues stung with haste
just such a waste
lies men can't face...

...none calleth for justice
nor any pleadeth for truth
they trust in vanity
and speak lies
they conceive mischief and bring forth iniquity
...their feet run to evil
and they make haste to shed innocent blood
their thoughts are thoughts of iniquity
wasting and destruction are in their paths
the way of peace they know not
and there is no judgement in their goings
they have made them crooked paths
whosoever goeth therein shall not know peace
therefore is judgement far from us
neither doth justice overtake us
we wait for light but behold obscurity
for brightness, but we walk in darkness
we grope for the wall like the blind
and we grope as if we had no eyes
we stumble at noonday as in the night
we are in desolate places as dead men
we roar all like bears
and mourn sore like doves
we look for judgement but there is none
for salvation
but it is far off from us
for our transgressions are multiplied before thee
and our sins testify against us
for our transgressions are with us
and as for our iniquities, we know them...
Isaiah 59:4-12
 
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