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What is faith?

Discussion in 'Questions by Non-Christians (Archived)' started by Chris†opher Paul, Jul 15, 2002.

  1. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

    +59
    Christian
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    "We should not want great faith, we should want great knowledge."

    I think that Christ was pointing out that we lack faith and thus anything more then nothing is a lot. The comparision with the mustard seed was to show how little faith we have in God. Faith in this context implies trust faith. Not a lack of knowledge faith. I have faith that the sun will rise tomorrow, but that doesn't mean I don't have any knowledge of the sun at all.
     
  2. LightBearer

    LightBearer Veteran

    +19
    Jehovahs Witness
    How wrong you are.

    Hebrews 11:1-2
    Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities though not beheld. 2 For by means of this the men of old times had witness borne to them.

    True faith, according to scripture is based on evidence and facts. For example. If a person claimed he could predict the lottery numbers for next week, would I have faith in that claim, no. If he provided evidence and proved that he had correctly predicted the numbers for the last ten weeks would I put faith in his claim now, I would. To have believed in the first claim would have been credulity, to have beleived in the second would have been faith, because it would have been based on hard evidence.

    God does not want us to believe simply because he tells us.  He has provided solid, hard evidence of his existence and of the trufulness of his word the Bible.  Christains who build their faith on on this solid foundation will will never be dissapointed.
     
  3. Pastor N.B.

    Pastor N.B. Member

    434
    +0
    *******

    That is worth repeating!
    Yet, all men have a measure of Faith, to start with.
    The 'ernest of the spirit'! (perhaps gifts & talents are meant here also)
    It seems that home buying was started of this scriptual primitive, even with having a time of closure.

    And then, another question stands out in the professed Christian's
    life. That of presumption or faith, is what I claim, Faith! (Maybe & maybe not) An example: Such as asking the Lord's watchcare over me driving at a high rate of speed needlessly. In the Psalms, chapter 19:13 we see this contrasted. This Word 'also' also, has a much deeper meaning.

    And what about a faith that eats everything & anything? Or uses tobacco?
    Perhaps that is what the Lady (?) meant about Wisdom & faith ? :scratch:

    And another thought on 'Faith' in some places it should state FOLD or denominational beliefs perhaps. I am thinking of John 10:16 & Eph. 4:5 or Rev. 18:4.

    Anyhow, so far, you reply sounds worth re/reading! :)
    P/N/B
     
  4. Thunderchild

    Thunderchild Sheep in Wolf's clothing

    +1
    Non-Denom
    Ah now... When Jesus referred to "faith as a grain as mustard seed" he was demonstrated how very little faith really is needed to achieve miracles...observe...
    Matthew 17:20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
     
  5. Thunderchild

    Thunderchild Sheep in Wolf's clothing

    +1
    Non-Denom
    You got it, LightBearer. Exactly right.
     
  6. Duane Morse

    Duane Morse Well-Known Member

    +7
    assured expectation of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities though not beheld.

    Things hoped for and realities not beheld.
    And you term this facts and evidence? It is belief in the lack of facts and evidence.
    Hard evidence nullifies faith in what it proves. With hard evidence you would not have the condition of a reality not beheld, you would be beholding the reality through the hard evidence. You would no longer be hoping because you would KNOW with a certainty that requires no faith for the believing.
    The Shroud of Turin is one such piece of hard evidence. It is hard physical evidence of the resurrection from the dead of Jesus Christ. So if you accept the hard evidence that God left of the resurrection, you no longer need faith in the resurrection because you have have hard evidence for proof.
     
  7. Pastor N.B.

    Pastor N.B. Member

    434
    +0
    Dear friend:
    My 'spiritual' Faith comes from [the] "IT is written". Otherwise it might well be 'presumption'! Try Psalms 19:13 in the King James or even the Douay version is good. It is Psalms 18:13-14
    P/N/B
     
  8. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

    +59
    Christian
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    "Hard evidence nullifies faith in what it proves. "

    No...hard evidence affirms the faith. I believe and have faith in God and his personal relationship with me based on the hard evidence of how many times he has helped me in my need.

    I believe and have faith that the sun will come up tomorrow based on the hard evidience that it has come up every day of my physical life.
     
  9. Pastor N.B.

    Pastor N.B. Member

    434
    +0
    **************
    Good Post: Very true!
    And the [BEST] 'hard evidence' is a personal one on one Changed Heart! :clap: See 2 Cor. 3:3. Yet 'this one' can be "HARD EVDENCE" only by a 'Born Again' one, huh! John 3:3.
    P/N/B/
     
  10. LightBearer

    LightBearer Veteran

    +19
    Jehovahs Witness
    You left out "Evident demonstration of".  Only three words I know, but they mean a lot.
     
  11. Thunderchild

    Thunderchild Sheep in Wolf's clothing

    +1
    Non-Denom
    Ah now... there is the rub (as the saying goes). It takes faith to believe that the hard evidence is what it is.

    Examples:
    Did Judas have faith at the end? An apostle, he had not only seen but exercised the apostle's authorities. But did he have faith?
    What of the unrighteous scribes, pharisees and saducees? Did they see Jesus perform signs and wonders? certainly. If they had faith, they would have acknowledged Jesus as being a man of God. Instead, they declared him to be a sorceror, claiming that his works were from Satan. Did they have faith?
    The apostles, when Jesus was arrested, went into hiding (all but one) - and even he denied knowing Jesus at the last. Did they have (at the time) faith?

    Perhaps a re-examination of the concept involved with faith is in order. Start with the extensions of the word faith, so as to gain a clearer understanding. (that is: the consider the meanings of the terms "keeping faith with," "being faithful")
     
  12. Job_38

    Job_38 <font size="1"> In perfect orbit they have circled

    +1
    &nbsp;

    &nbsp;At first I was "engraged!";) by this, but I thought about it, long and hard. It is ignorance. Its trusting God, not having evidence that he will pull through, but trusting still.
     
  13. Othniel

    Othniel Cup Overflowing

    151
    +0
    Faith is unavoidable. We all believe in something. Even those who purport to believe in nothing are staking faith in their own reading of "hard facts". This is no less ignorant than any other kind of faith. There is more than meets the eye to this universe, no matter what you believe.

    Faith in God is a gift. If you don't want it, you can discard it.' As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.

    Peace to all who seek it,
     
  14. Duane Morse

    Duane Morse Well-Known Member

    +7
    Actually, I do not discount personal experience with God. But in the act of affirming your faith through that evidence, that faith is actually lessening. You have more evidence, so less faith is necessary. In fact, in doing so you are whittling down your faith to be what Jesus called the faith of a mustard seed.
    You only look at the one aspect of faith, but I look at both. Faith is and always will be necessary. But it is a two edged sword. You only need as much faith as is necessary to bridge the gap between what you know and understand and what you are in ignorance of. And since we can never know and understand everything (only God Almighty has that knowledge and understanding) faith is always necessary on our journey in order to come ever closer to God.
    I have great faith and little faith.
    Great faith because of what I do not understand but know in my heart to be true.
    Little faith because of the evidence I have found both in my personal life and in the world of nature and science.

    I have less faith than you because I understand more, but at the same time I have greater faith than you because I also understand less due to my greater knowledge of God. The more you understand of God, the more that you realize that there is SO much more that you do not understand.
     
  15. Thunderchild

    Thunderchild Sheep in Wolf's clothing

    +1
    Non-Denom
    Less faith perhaps (and looking at your post, I find that it has a certain elegance) - but that "less" is far more stable than the more extensive faith... Yes, it does make an elegant argument indeed.
     
  16. Duane Morse

    Duane Morse Well-Known Member

    +7
    The Truth IS out there.
    The Truth is the kingdom of God.
    Seek ye first the kingdom of God, and His righteousness.
    Seek ye first, Truth.
    The kingdom of God is within you.
    This above all else, to thine own self be True, and be Truthfull in all things.
     
  17. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

    +59
    Christian
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    "I have less faith than you because I understand more, but at the same time I have greater faith than you because I also understand less due to my greater knowledge of God. "

    if that's how it works, then Paul is flat out wrong in romans 14 and 15, which can't be so ;) Again, faith is a good thing. You should strive for faith, not knowledge.
     
  18. Pastor N.B.

    Pastor N.B. Member

    434
    +0
    Hi,
    Faith is beliving God, regardless! That is called 'character building'. Morality
    built on His Words, not educated man's foolishness! It seem that, that are His Words of wisdom? 'The wisdom of man is foolishness with God'.

    Lucifer never reached this statis it seems. Nor did Adam or Eve at first, even though these created ones were created perfect! Except for this 'faith' that you are all talking about?? In simple words, true Faith will develope ones character, that neither hell or high waters will nullify!

    (TESTING in other words!!) Try Na. 1:9 Yet, only by the ones that are born again, & which use the Master's provisions. That is also still 'freedom' of choice! "IF", always stands as the condition. It is always along the whole way ones free choice. Try Phil. 4:13 & 2 Cor. 12:9 & then Eccl. 12:13-14.
    P/N/B/
     
  19. Duane Morse

    Duane Morse Well-Known Member

    +7
    Hosea 4:6 - My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

    No not cast aside the need for knowledge. Faith will be necessary no matter how much knowledge you attain, but no amount of faith can replace true knowledge.
     
  20. Pastor N.B.

    Pastor N.B. Member

    434
    +0
    Hi,
    VERY very True! That of Hosea 4:6. "Because thou hast rejected knowledge [I will reject thee], .." Who are these ones?? ['MY PEOPLE!']

    More knowledge? Christ said that in the [LAST] days knowkledge would be increased! Scripture [pluss] huh? In other words, knowledge other that Scripture! And if we reject this 'other knowledge' He will reject us! Interesting!

    Very true, yet ALL, or ANY Knowledge will [still not 'EVER' violate the Word!]
    Try 1 Corinthians 14:32 with 2 Timothy 3:16. Nor will it violate these two, the [Everlasting Covenant & the Everlasting Gospel].
    P/N/B/
     
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