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What is distinct from Judaism?

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Interplanner, Sep 9, 2014.

  1. ebedmelech

    ebedmelech My dog Micah in the pic Supporter

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    That's about as misguided an understanding of what those chapters teach as your "Mid Acts Perspective" Danoh.

    Scripture is a cohesive whole Danoh. When you can get an understanding of Romans 4...you might start to understand what the real message is.
     
  2. Danoh

    Danoh Newbie

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    Nonsense, Rev, we assert what we assert, we're not the one's continually piping "prove it," and only to claim others have not danced as we have asked.

    It was God Who put the Earth, the Land, IN Earth AS IT IS in Heaven in their frame of reference.

    Your kind have concluded otherwise and now hold to it because doing so fits your error.

    But, I'm only going to have to repeat myself - your kind only pipes "prove" - your kind have no intention of laying aside your disbelief on this issue.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2014
  3. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    When I wrote the Jews of today - I was referring to the Jews who's religion is Judaism. They are looking for the messiah to be the promised great King of Israel.
     
  4. Danoh

    Danoh Newbie

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    Agreed. Its why Paul related Romans 9-11's delay of Daniel 9's 70th week to the Thessalonian Jews in Acts 17, per 2 Thessalonians 2.

    That's for those with ears to hear; they'll understand.
     
  5. Interplanner

    Interplanner Newbie

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    Both of these quotes show the mistake of 2P2P at work. Danoh thinks it is in the NT on purpose. Doug has taken the position of modern pre-Christian Judaism.

    Why does the latter need to happen all over again Doug, if there already was a major catastrophic event in Israel in which they tried to realize a messianic victory over an earthly oppressor, a divine war of 'light' (Judaism) vs 'darkness', at complete odds with what the NT Gospel and mission was about?

    You think that is setting up all over again, but it already happened. You break the 70th week off and insert X000 years, but it already happened.
     
  6. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Nothing happened in 70AD or first century that was fulfillment of the end times prophecies.

    The Jews and Israel will become Christians. That is part of the end times prophecies, Inter.

    Preterism - the Jews rejected the gospel, and God has abandoned His promises to the Jews and Israel, and is only going to judge them.

    Futurism - the Jews rejected the gospel, and God is going to make good on His promises to the Jews and Israel, and they are going to become Christians and be saved.

    A better question is why does Preterism "need" to deny that Israel over there is not Israel, and those Jews are not Jews, but another people?

    The Hebrew Isaelites do the same thing.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvhdLz9ro3s
     
  7. Interplanner

    Interplanner Newbie

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    Doug,
    God did not abandone promises to Israel. They never were about the land anyway, heb 11. They were about the mission. This is not only clear from the NT reading of things (Gal 3), it is what happened. "Decree" ('epitagen') in Rom 16:26 has that force to it: it is not just God declaring it, but God enacting, materializing it. The Gentiles are in as promised; cp 15:8.
     
  8. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    I guess that's why in the bible God did not promise the land to Israel. :doh:


    1. The Lord appeared to Abram and said, “To your offspring I will give this land.”~ Genesis 12:7
    2. “All the land that you see I will give to you and your offspring forever~ Genesis 13:15
    3. “Go, walk through the length and breadth of the land, for I am giving it to you.”~ Genesis 13:17
    4. He also said to him: “I am the Lord, who brought you out of Ur of the Chaldeans to give you this land to take possession of it.”~ Genesis 15:7
    5. On that day the Lord made a covenant with Abram and said, “To your descendants I give this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the Euphrates ...”~ Genesis 15:18
    6. “The whole land of Canaan, where you are now an alien, I will give as an everlasting possession to you and your descendants after you; and I will be their God.”~ Genesis 17:8
    7. “The Lord ... spoke to me (Abraham) and promised me on oath, saying, ‘To your offspring I will give this land ...’”~ Genesis 24:7
    8. “... to you (Isaac) and your descendants I will give all these lands and will confirm the oath I swore to your father Abraham.”~ Genesis 26:3
    9. “May He give you and your descendants the blessing given to Abraham, so that you may take possession of the land where you now live as an alien, the land God gave to Abraham.”~ Genesis 28:4
    10. ... “I am the Lord, the God of your father Abraham and the God of Isaac. I will give you (Jacob) and your descendants the land on which you are lying.”~ Genesis 28:13
    11. “The land I gave to Abraham and Isaac I also give to you (Jacob), and I will give this land to your descendants after you.”~ Genesis 35:12
    12. Jacob said to Joseph, “God Almighty ... said to me ... ‘I will give this land as an everlasting possession to your descendants after you.’”~ Genesis 48:3-4
    13. ... Joseph said ... “God will ... take you up ... to the land He promised on oath to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.”~ Genesis 50:24
    14. “I also established My covenant with them to give them the land of Canaan, where they lived as aliens.”~ Exodus 6:4
    15. “And I will bring you to the land I swore with uplifted hand to give to Abraham, to Isaac and to Jacob. I will give it to you as a possession ...”~ Exodus 6:8
    16. “When you enter the land that the Lord will give you as He promised ...”~ Exodus 12:25
    17. “When the Lord brings you into ... the land He swore to your forefathers to give you ...”~ Exodus 13:5
    18. “After the Lord brings you into the land of the Canaanites and gives it to you, as He promised on oath to you and your forefathers ...”~ Exodus 13:11
    19. “Honour your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the Lord your God is giving you.”~ Exodus 20:12
    20. “Remember your servants Abraham, Isaac and Israel, to whom You swore by Your own self: ‘... I will give your descendants all this land I promised them, and it will be their inheritance forever.’”~ Exodus 32:13
    21. ... the Lord said to Moses, “Leave this place, you and the people you brought up out of Egypt, and go up to the land I promised on oath to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, saying, ‘I will give it to your descendants.’”~ Exodus 33:1
    22. “When you enter the land of Canaan, which I am giving you as your possession ...”~ Leviticus 14:34
    23. “You will possess their land; I will give it to you as an inheritance, a land flowing with milk and honey. I am the Lord your God ...”~ Leviticus 20:24
    24. “When you enter the land I am going to give you ...”~ Leviticus 23:10
    25. “When you enter the land I am going to give you ...”~ Leviticus 25:2
    26. “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt to give you the land of Canaan and to be your God.”~ Leviticus 25:38
    27. “... Why do you tell me to carry them ... to the land You promised on oath to their forefathers?”~ Numbers 11:12
    28. “Send some men to explore the land of Canaan, which I am giving to the Israelites ...”~ Numbers 13:2
    29. ... the nations ... will say ... “The Lord was not able to bring these people into the land He promised them on oath ...”~ Numbers 14:15-16
    30. “... not one of them will ever see the land I promised on oath to their forefathers ...”~ Numbers 14:23
    31. “Not one of you will enter the land I swore with uplifted hand to make your home ...”~ Numbers 14:30
    32. “... After you enter the land I am giving you as a home ...”~ Numbers 15:2
    33. But the Lord said to Moses and Aaron, “... you will not bring this community into the land I give them.”~ Numbers 20:12
    34. “Aaron ... will not enter the land I give the Israelites ...”~ Numbers 20:24
    35. “... see the land I have given the Israelites.”~ Numbers 27:12
    36. “Why do you discourage the Israelites from going over into the land the Lord has given them?”~ Numbers 32:7
    37. ... they (the spies) discouraged the Israelites from entering the land the Lord had given them.~ Numbers 32:9
    38. “... not one of the men ... who came up out of Egypt will see the land I promised on oath to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob ...”~ Numbers 32:11
    39. “Take possession of the land and settle in it, for I have given you the land to possess.”~ Numbers 33:53
    40. “Command the Israelites and say to them: ‘... the land that will be allotted to you as an inheritance ...’”~ Numbers 34:2
    41. “See, I have given you this land. Go in and take possession of the land that the Lord swore He would give to your fathers – to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob – and to their descendants after them.”~ Deuteronomy 1:8
    42. “See, the Lord your God has given you the land. Go up and take possession of it as the Lord, the God of your fathers, told you. Do not be afraid; do not be discouraged.”~ Deuteronomy 1:21
    43. ... they ... reported, “It is a good land that the Lord our God is giving us.”~ Deuteronomy 1:25
    44. “Not a man of this evil generation shall see the good land I swore to give your forefathers ...”~ Deuteronomy 1:35
    45. “... your children ... will enter the land. I will give it to them and they will take possession of it.”~ Deuteronomy 1:39
    46. “... the descendants of Esau ... destroyed the Horites ... and settled in their place, just as Israel did in the land the Lord gave them as their possession.”~ Deuteronomy 2:12
    47. “... until we cross the Jordan into the land the Lord our God is giving us.”~ Deuteronomy 2:29
    48. “The Lord your God has given you this land to take possession of it ...”~ Deuteronomy 3:18
    49. “... until the Lord gives rest to your brothers ... and they too have taken over the land that the Lord your God is giving them, across the Jordan ...”~ Deuteronomy 3:20
    50. “... Joshua ... will lead this people across and will cause them to inherit the land that you will see.”~ Deuteronomy 3:28
    51. “... Follow (the decrees and laws) so that you may live and may go in and take possession of the land that the Lord, the God of your fathers, is giving you.”~ Deuteronomy 4:1
    52. “See, I have taught you decrees and laws ... so that you may follow them in the land you are entering to take possession of it.”~ Deuteronomy 4:5
    53. “The Lord was angry with me (Moses) because of you, and He solemnly swore that I would not cross the Jordan and enter the good land the Lord your God is giving you as your inheritance.”~ Deuteronomy 4:21
    54. “Because He loved your forefathers and chose their descendants after them, He brought you out of Egypt by His Presence and His great strength, to drive out before you nations greater and stronger than you and to bring you into their land to give it to you for your inheritance, as it is today.”~ Deuteronomy 4:37-38
    55. “Keep His decrees and commands ... so that ... you may live long in the land the Lord your God gives you for all time~ Deuteronomy 4:40
    56. “Honour your father and your mother ... so that ... it may go well with you in the land the Lord your God is giving you.”~ Deuteronomy 5:16
    57. “... you are to teach them to follow (all the commands, decrees and laws) in the land I am giving them to possess.”~ Deuteronomy 5:31
    58. “Walk in all the way that the Lord your God has commanded you, so that you may live and prosper and prolong your days in the land that you will possess.”~ Deuteronomy 5:33
    59. “When the Lord ... brings you into the land He swore to ... Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, to give you ...”~ Deuteronomy 6:10
    60. “Do what is right and good in the Lord’s sight, so that it may go well with you and you may go in and take over the good land that the Lord promised on oath to your forefathers ...”~ Deuteronomy 6:18
    61. “But He brought us out from there to ... give us the land that He promised on oath to our forefathers.”~ Deuteronomy 6:23
    62. “He will love you and bless you ... in the land that He swore to your forefathers to give you.”~ Deuteronomy 7:13
    63. “Be careful to follow every command I am giving you today, so that you may live and increase and may enter and possess the land that the Lord promised on oath to your forefathers.”~ Deuteronomy 8:1
    64. “... praise the Lord your God for the good land He has given you.”~ Deuteronomy 8:10
    65. “It is not because of your righteousness or your integrity that you are going in to take possession of their land; but on account of the wickedness of these nations, the Lord your God will drive them out before you, to accomplish what He swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.”~ Deuteronomy 9:5
    66. “Understand, then, that it is not because of your righteousness that the Lord your God is giving you this good land to possess, for you are a stiff-necked people.”~ Deuteronomy 9:6
    67. “... the Lord ... said, ‘Go up and take possession of the land I have given you.’ But you rebelled against the command of the Lord your God. You did not trust Him or obey Him.”~ Deuteronomy 9:23
    68. “Otherwise (the Egyptians) ... will say, ‘... the Lord was not able to take them into the land He had promised them ...’”~ Deuteronomy 9:28
    69. “Go,” the Lord said to me, “... enter and possess the land that I swore to their fathers to give them.”~ Deuteronomy 10:11
    70. “... so that you may live long in the land that the Lord swore to your forefathers to give to them and their descendants ...”~ Deuteronomy 11:9
     
  9. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    And here are the next group of verses....

    1. “... the Lord’s anger will burn against you ... and you will soon perish from the good land the Lord is giving you.”~ Deuteronomy 11:17
    2. “... so that your days ... may be many in the land that the Lord swore to give your forefathers ...”~ Deuteronomy 11:21
    3. “You are about to cross the Jordan to enter and take possession of the land the Lord your God is giving you ...”~ Deuteronomy 11:31
    4. “These are the decrees and laws you must be careful to follow in the land that the Lord, the God of your fathers, has given you to possess ...”~ Deuteronomy 12:1
    5. “But you will cross the Jordan and settle in the land the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, and He will give you rest from all your enemies around you ...”~ Deuteronomy 12:10
    6. “... there should be no poor among you, for in the land the Lord your God is giving you to possess as your inheritance, He will richly bless you ...”~ Deuteronomy 15:4
    7. “... in any of the towns of the land that the Lord your God is giving you, do not be hardhearted or tightfisted toward your poor brother.”~ Deuteronomy 15:7
    8. “Follow justice and justice alone, so that you may live and possess the land the Lord your God is giving you.”~ Deuteronomy 16:20
    9. “When you enter the land the Lord your God is giving you and have taken possession of it ...”~ Deuteronomy 17:14
    10. “When you enter the land the Lord your God is giving you ...”~ Deuteronomy 18:9
    11. “When the Lord your God has destroyed the nations whose land He is giving you, and when you have driven them out and settled in their towns and houses, then set aside for yourselves three cities centrally located in the land the Lord your God is giving you to possess ... divide into three parts the land the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance ...”~ Deuteronomy 19:1-3
    12. “If the Lord your God enlarges your territory, as He promised on oath to your forefathers, and gives you the whole land He promised them ...”~ Deuteronomy 19:8
    13. “Do this so that innocent blood will not be shed in your land, which the Lord your God is giving you as your inheritance ...”~ Deuteronomy 19:10
    14. “Do not move your neighbour’s boundary stone set up by your predecessors in the inheritance you receive in the land the Lord your God is giving you to possess.”~ Deuteronomy 19:14
    15. “If a man is found slain, lying in a field in the land the Lord your God is giving you to possess ...”~ Deuteronomy 21:1
    16. “... You must not desecrate the land the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance.”~ Deuteronomy 21:23
    17. “... Do not bring sin upon the land the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance.”~ Deuteronomy 24:4
    18. “You must have accurate and honest weights and measures, so that you may live long in the land the Lord your God is giving you.”~ Deuteronomy 25:15
     
  10. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    and the next group of verses:


    1. “When the Lord your God gives you rest from all the enemies around you in the land He is giving you to possess as an inheritance ...”~ Deuteronomy 25:19
    2. “When you have entered the land the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance and have taken possession of it and settled in it, take some of the firstfruits of all that you produce from the soil of the land the Lord your God is giving you ...”~ Deuteronomy 26:1-2
    3. “... I declare today to the Lord ... that I have come to the land the Lord swore to our forefathers to give us.”~ Deuteronomy 26:3
    4. “He brought us to this place and gave us this land, a land flowing with milk and honey ...”~ Deuteronomy 26:9
    5. “Look down from heaven ... and bless Your people Israel and the land You have given us as You promised on oath to our forefathers ...”~ Deuteronomy 26:15
    6. “When you have crossed the Jordan into the land the Lord your God is giving you ...”~ Deuteronomy 27:2
    7. “... when you have crossed over to enter the land the Lord your God is giving you, a land flowing with milk and honey, just as the Lord, the God of your fathers, promised you.”~ Deuteronomy 27:3
    8. “... The Lord your God will bless you in the land He is giving you.”~ Deuteronomy 28:8
    9. “The Lord will grant you abundant prosperity ... in the land He swore to your forefathers to give you.”~ Deuteronomy 28:11
    10. “... They will besiege all the cities throughout the land the Lord your God is giving you.”~ Deuteronomy 28:52
    11. “... For the Lord is your life, and He will give you many years in the land He swore to give to your fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.”~ Deuteronomy 30:20
    12. “... you must go with this people into the land that the Lord swore to their forefathers to give them, and you must divide it among them as their inheritance.”~ Deuteronomy 31:7
    13. “When I have brought them into the land ... I promised on oath to their forefathers ...”~ Deuteronomy 31:20
    14. “... I know what they are disposed to do, even before I bring them into the land I promised them on oath.”~ Deuteronomy 31:21
    15. The Lord gave this command to Joshua ... “... you will bring the Israelites into the land I promised them on oath ...”~ Deuteronomy 31:23
    16. “Go up ... and view Canaan, the land I am giving the Israelites as their own possession.”~ Deuteronomy 32:49
    17. “... you (Moses) will see the land only from a distance; you will not enter the land I am giving to the people of Israel.”~ Deuteronomy 32:52
    18. Then the Lord said to him, “This is the land I promised on oath to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob ...”~ Deuteronomy 34:4
    19. “... get ready to cross the Jordan River into the land I am about to give to them – to the Israelites.”~ Joshua 1:2
    20. “... you will lead these people to inherit the land I swore to their forefathers to give them.”~ Joshua 1:6
    21. “... you will cross the Jordan here to go in and take possession of the land the Lord your God is giving you for your own.”~ Joshua 1:11
     
  11. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    and the next group of verses, there are 170 in all.


    1. “... until they too have taken possession of the land that the Lord your God is giving them ...”~ Joshua 1:15
    2. “... I know that the Lord has given this land to you ...”~ Joshua 2:9
    3. “... the Lord had sworn to them that they would not see the land that He had solemnly promised their fathers to give us ...”~ Joshua 5:6
    4. “Your servants were clearly told how the Lord your God had commanded His servant Moses to give you the whole land and to wipe out all its inhabitants from before you ...”~ Joshua 9:24
    5. “... Be sure to allocate this land to Israel for an inheritance, as I have instructed you ...”~ Joshua 13:6
    6. So Joshua said to the Israelites: “How long will you wait before you begin to take possession of the land that the Lord, the God of your fathers, has given you?”~ Joshua 18:3
    7. “So the Lord gave Israel all the land He had sworn to give their forefathers, and they took possession of it ...”~ Joshua 21:43
    8. “The Lord your God Himself will drive them out of your way ... you will take possession of their land, as the Lord your God promised you.”~ Joshua 23:5
    9. “... then ... the Lord your God will no longer drive out these nations before you. Instead, they will become snares and traps for you ... until you perish from this good land, which the Lord your God has given you.”~ Joshua 23:13
    10. “But just as every good promise of the Lord your God has come true, so the Lord will bring on you all the evil He has threatened, until He has destroyed you from this good land He has given you.”~ Joshua 23:15
    11. “If you violate the covenant of the Lord your God ... you will quickly perish from the good land He has given you.”~ Joshua 23:16
    12. “... I brought you up out of Egypt and led you into the land that I swore to give to your forefathers. I said, ‘I will never break My covenant with you ...”~ Judges 2:1
    13. “I snatched you from the power of Egypt and from the hand of all your oppressors. I drove them from before you and gave you their land.”~ Judges 6:9
    14. “... then hear from heaven and forgive the sin of Your people Israel and bring them back to the land You gave to their fathers.”~ 1 Kings 8:34
    15. “... then hear from heaven and forgive the sin of Your servants, Your people Israel. Teach them the right way to live, and send rain on the land You gave Your people for an inheritance.”~ 1 Kings 8:36
    16. “... so that they will fear You all the time they live in the land You gave our fathers.”~ 1 Kings 8:40
    17. “But if you or your sons turn away from Me ... then I will cut off Israel from the land I have given them ... Israel will then become a byword and an object of ridicule among all peoples.”~ 1 Kings 9:6-7
    18. “And the Lord will strike Israel ... He will uproot Israel from this good land that He gave to their forefathers and scatter them ... because they provoked the Lord to anger ...”~ 1 Kings 14:15
    19. “I will not again make the feet of the Israelites wander from the land I gave their forefathers, if only they will be careful to do everything I commanded them and will keep the whole Law ...”~ 2 Kings 21:8
    20. “He remembers His covenant forever, the word He commanded, for a thousand generations, the covenant He made with Abraham, the oath He swore to Isaac. He confirmed it to Jacob as a decree, to Israel as an everlasting covenant: ‘To you I will give the land of Canaan as the portion you will inherit.’”~ 1 Chronicles 16:15-18
    21. “... then hear from heaven and forgive the sin of Your people Israel and bring them back to the land You gave to them and their fathers.”~ 2 Chronicles 6:25
    22. “... then hear from heaven and forgive the sin of Your servants, Your people Israel. Teach them the right way to live, and send rain on the land You gave Your people for an inheritance.”~ 2 Chronicles 6:27
    23. “... then hear from heaven ... Forgive ... so that they will fear You and walk in Your ways all the time they live in the land You gave our fathers.”~ 2 Chronicles 6:30-31
    24. “But if you turn away and forsake the decrees and commands I have given you ... then I will uproot Israel from My land, which I have given them ...”~ 2 Chronicles 7:19-20
    25. “O our God, did You not drive out the inhabitants of this land before Your people Israel and give it forever to the descendants of Abraham Your friend?”~ 2 Chronicles 7:19-20
    26. “I will not again make the feet of the Israelites leave the land I assigned to your forefathers, if only they will be careful to do everything I commanded them ...”~ 2 Chronicles 33:8
    27. “You found his heart faithful to You, and You made a covenant with him to give to his descendants the land of the Canaanites, Hittites, Amorites, Perizzites, Jebusites and Girgashites. You have kept Your promise because You are righteous.”~ Nehemiah 9:8
    28. “... You told them to go in and take possession of the land You had sworn with uplifted hand to give them.”~ Nehemiah 9:15
    29. “You brought them into the land that You told their fathers to enter and possess.”~ Nehemiah 9:23
    30. “... we are slaves today, slaves in the land You gave our forefathers ...”~ Nehemiah 9:36
    31. “Thus He brought them to the border of His holy land ... He drove out nations before them and allotted their lands to them as an inheritance; He settled the tribes of Israel in their homes.”~ Psalms 78:54-55
    32. “He remembers His covenant forever, the word He commanded, for a thousand generations, the covenant He made with Abraham, the oath He swore to Isaac. He confirmed it to Jacob as a decree, to Israel as an everlasting covenant: ‘To you I will give the land of Canaan as the portion you will inherit.’”~ Psalms 105:8-11
    33. “... Sihon king of the Amorites, Og king of Bashan and all the kings of Canaan – and He gave their land as an inheritance, an inheritance to His people Israel.”~ Psalms 135:11-12
    34. “... and gave their land as an inheritance ... an inheritance to His servant Israel ...”~ Psalms 136:21-22
    35. “The Lord will have compassion on Jacob; once again He will choose Israel and will settle them in their own land.”~ Isaiah 14:1
    36. “Then will all Your people be righteous and they will possess the land forever ...”~ Isaiah 60:21
    37. “... they will come from a northern land to the land I gave your forefathers as an inheritance.”~ Jeremiah 3:18
    38. “... if you do not oppress the alien, the fatherless or the widow and do not shed innocent blood in this place, and if you do not follow other gods to your own harm, then I will let you live in this place, in the land I gave your forefathers for ever and ever.”~ Jeremiah 7:6-7
    39. “Then I will fulfill the oath I swore to your forefathers, to give them a land flowing with milk and honey ...”~ Jeremiah 11:5
    40. “I will send the sword, famine and plague against them until they are destroyed from the land I gave to them and their fathers.”~ Jeremiah 24:10
    41. They said, “Turn now, each of you, from your evil ways ... and you can stay in the land the Lord gave to you and your fathers for ever and ever.”~ Jeremiah 25:5
    42. “The days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will bring My people Israel and Judah back from captivity and restore them to the land I gave their forefathers to possess,” says the Lord.~ Jeremiah 30:3
    43. “You gave them this land You had sworn to give their forefathers, a land flowing with milk and honey.”~ Jeremiah 32:22
    44. “... Each of you must turn from your wicked ways ... Then you will live in the land I have given to you and your fathers ...”~ Jeremiah 35:15
    45. “This is what the Sovereign Lord says: I will gather you from the nations and bring you back from the countries where you have been scattered, and I will give you back the land of Israel again.”~ Ezekiel 11:17
    46. “On that day I swore to them that I would bring them out of Egypt into a land I had searched out for them, a land flowing with milk and honey, the most beautiful of all lands.”~ Ezekiel 20:6
    47. “... I swore to them (the rebellious generation) in the desert that I would not bring them into the land I had given them – a land flowing with milk and honey, most beautiful of all lands ...”~ Ezekiel 20:15
    48. “When I brought them into the land I had sworn to give them and they saw any high hill or any leafy tree, there they offered their sacrifices ...”~ Ezekiel 20:28
    49. “Then you will know that I am the Lord, when I bring you into the land of Israel, the land I had sworn with uplifted hand to give to your fathers.”~ Ezekiel 20:42
    50. “... the Sovereign Lord says: When I gather the people of Israel from the nations where they have been scattered, I will show Myself holy among them in the sight of the nations. Then they will live in their own land, which I gave to My servant Jacob.”~ Ezekiel 28:25
    51. “I will bring them out from the nations and gather them from the countries, and I will bring them into their own land ...”~ Ezekiel 34:13
    52. “I will provide for them a land renowned for its crops, and they will no longer be victims of famine in the land or bear the scorn of the nations.”~ Ezekiel 34:29
    53. “You will live in the land I gave your forefathers; you will be My people, and I will be your God.”~ Ezekiel 36:28
    54. “... the Sovereign Lord says: O My people, I am going to open your graves and bring you up from them; I will bring you back to the land of Israel. Then you, My people, will know that I am the Lord ... I will put My Spirit in you and you will live, and I will settle you in your own land. Then you will know that I the Lord have spoken, and I have done it, declares the Lord.”~ Ezekiel 37:12-14
    55. “... the Sovereign Lord says: I will take the Israelites out of the nations where they have gone. I will gather them from all around and bring them back into their own land.”~ Ezekiel 37:21
    56. “They will live in the land I gave to My servant Jacob, the land where your fathers lived. They and their children and their children’s children will live there forever ...”~ Ezekiel 37:25
    57. “This land will be his possession in Israel. And My princes will no longer oppress My people but will allow the house of Israel to possess the land ...”~ Ezekiel 45:8
    58. “... Because I swore with uplifted hand to give it to your forefathers, this land will become your inheritance.”~ Ezekiel 47:14
    59. “I will plant Israel in their own land, never again to be uprooted from the land I have given them,” says the Lord your God.~ Amos 9:15
    60. “He gave him no inheritance here, not even a foot of ground. But God promised him that he and his descendants after him would possess the land, even though at that time Abraham had no child.”~ Acts 7:5
    61. “... He overthrew seven nations in Canaan and gave their land to His people as their inheritance.”~ Acts 13:19
     
  12. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    But according to you Inter, God did not make any promises regarding the land to the Israelites. :doh:
     
  13. Danoh

    Danoh Newbie

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    According, to Inter's reading into other's words, including HIS reading into GOD'S Promise TO HIMSELF on this issue, the land promise is Israel's delusion, and the Antichrist will snare them by that delusion.

    The "Historicist" view = "Yea hath God said?"
     
  14. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Inter is preterist view, not historist. The historist view came out of the reformation, mainly by a group called the Waldensians, who thought because of the persecution by the Pope on them breaking away, as the office of Pope being the Antichrist. The view is flawed, but it is not the preterist view. I think the Presbyterians and maybe the Methodists (not sure about them) hold the historist view.

    The preterist view is that the majority of bible prophecy has been fulfilled already. They do not hold that the Pope is the Antichrist. The SDA teachings are also that the Pope is the Antichrist, btw.
     
  15. Danoh

    Danoh Newbie

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    Dougg, as I don't subscribe to any view that views as fulfilled what is yet to be, they are all the sane.

    I distinguish between them when I read them, but after that they are all the same "historicist"replacement" error regardless of their offshoot distinctions.
     
  16. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    While both the preterist view and the historist view contain replacement theology, they are more different than alike. Inter is not a historist. I would not say that preterism is an offshoot of historistism, nor vice versa.
     
  17. Danoh

    Danoh Newbie

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    What I mean is that they are all an offshoot of what came about with the mishandling of Romans 2 and 3 and 9-11.

    Just as, the recovery of truth begun by the Reformers gradually gave way to reasoning that in many ways stopped that recovery dead in its tracks as to further recovery, and that, in turn, gave way to many of the various schools of thought out there now.

    I say many, rather than all, because some are older than that.

    But feel free to correct me on this, as there's nothing I love more than further refinement where I find it warranted.

    I have nothing personal against any of these people. I just don't agree with their views, nor with their assertion that they are really that different from one another where what really matters is the issue - objective Bible study, as determined by principles of objectivity common to all endeavours.
     
  18. ebedmelech

    ebedmelech My dog Micah in the pic Supporter

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    Doug just pasted enough verses to show his inability to allow scripture to interpret itself....:thumbsup:
     
  19. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    [​IMG]

    ....Those are the scriptures, not my interpretation. All you got to do is read them.
     
  20. Interplanner

    Interplanner Newbie

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    doug,
    I know your remark is the comfortable understanding of things in futurist circles, but I'm hear to rattle the cage: the real replacement theology problem is what is implied by Paul in Gal 3:17. In Judaism is the replacement of the promise by the law. And voiding. That is the problem that needs to be cleared up. As Paul explained it, the promised Gospel always was going to the nations, because Abraham was one of the nations before believing, wasn't he?
     
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