What Is Catholic, But Not Catholic?

[nanookadenord]

And further more, it just means that my previous statement is true, "I am more wise and compassionate then God." Which is also, not true obviously. So again, what is God's real reason for punishment if that's false?

Because, God has a standard that he expects. Anything that deviates from that standard is sin.

Albion's use of a parent was spot on.

 

[Sarah1972]

And that still doesn't answer my question/s. You both are either intentionally over looking the question, or you're avoiding it. That still implies God has an ego. Your answer actually implies that God has a very demanding and hard to satisfy ego which is worse. Which still doesn't make sense to me. This makes me challenge my Faith! This means he's not perfect, or unconditionally loving! And does God's ego differ from a humans as far as needs go? And why? I'm not trying to be difficult here. I have gay freinds who I try to understand and care about, knowing them, makes see God's laws very differently than I was raised. They're not being "evil" gays on purpose. They were definitely born that way. If God has a set of standards, then God judges. Then the bible is misleading and so is his scripture. And I have more compassion then he does, and wisdom. How does that even work???

 

[Sarah1972]

The truth has to be something else. Either God is not infinitely wise and loving, or the guys who "translated" the bible from his words didn't do it correctly or fairly.

 

[nanookadenord]

And that still doesn't answer my question/s. You both are either intentionally over looking the question, or you're avoiding it. That still implies God has an ego. Your answer actually implies that God has a very demanding and hard to satisfy ego which is worse. Which still doesn't make sense to me. This makes me challenge my Faith! This means he's not perfect, or unconditionally loving! And does God's ego differ from a humans as far as needs go? And why? I'm not trying to be difficult here. I have gay freinds who I try to understand and care about, knowing them, makes see God's laws very differently than I was raised. They're not being "evil" gays on purpose. They were definitely born that way. If God has a set of standards, then God judges. Then the bible is misleading and so is his scripture. And I have more compassion then he does, and wisdom. How does that even work???

You are looking at it from a human perspective and not God's.

God doesn't have an ego, that is you saying that he has an ego, when in reality it is His standard. As parents we have standards that we believe our children should live by, if they don't live by them, they get grounded. If we as humans have a standard that our children must live by, why wouldn't God when we are his children? Unless you think that parent's should not have standards for their children to live by and that is just a parent's ego?

I love my children unconditionally, but in order for them to learn how to be productive, respectful and law abiding citizens of the world, I must have a standard for them to follow so that they can be all that and more. It's the same with God.

 

[Sarah1972]

See, no. To choose to have a standard to live by, is to have the ability and free will to judge. You can't set a standard unless you first have a negative to judge it by in order to avoid it. Do you understand what Ego Is? It's not simply a mind set, or Identity. It's the thing that makes you choose to judge or reward. And last I checked God didn't judge. This defeats the purpose of free will. This is why I'm comparing to a parent. Parents get it wrong sometimes. So if God creates standards too, then he gets it wrong too. My gay freinds need underdtanding. Not judgement.

 

[Sarah1972]

Also I keep feeling like people's perception of what God really is, is probably distorted by thier own perception of themselves as they relate to God and thier own views of perfection.

 

[nanookadenord]

See, no. To choose to have a standard to live by, is to have the ability and free will to judge. You can't set a standard unless you first have a negative to judge it by in order to avoid it. Do you understand what Ego Is? It's not simply a mind set, or Identity. It's the thing that makes you choose to judge or reward. And last I checked God didn't judge. This defeats the purpose of free will. This is why I'm comparing to a parent. Parents get it wrong sometimes. So if God creates standards too, then he gets it wrong too. My gay freinds need underdtanding. Not judgement.

You are still thinking with a human's understanding.

God is indeed perfect, and his law is perfect. He, being our creator is able to establish standards that we must live by. Humans are not perfect, but God is. Humans are flawed and we do get it wrong, but God isn't and doesn't.

I'm not entirely sure you know what the definition of EGO is, so I am going to provide it for you.

e·go
ˈēɡō/
noun
noun: ego; plural noun: egos

1. a person's sense of self-esteem or self-importance.
   "a boost to my ego"
   synonyms: self-esteem, self-importance, self-worth, self-respect, self-image, self-confidence
   "the defeat was a bruise to his ego"
   • Psychoanalysis
     the part of the mind that mediates between the conscious and the unconscious and is responsible for reality testing and a sense of personal identity.
   • Philosophy
     (in metaphysics) a conscious thinking subject

 

[nanookadenord]

Also I keep feeling like people's perception of what God really is, is probably distorted by thier own perception of themselves as they relate to God and thier own views of perfection.

That can indeed be the case for many Christians.

My view of perfection is not God's view, but His is the absolute perfection. His perfection is without spot or blemish. We can see what God's perfection is within the Bible.

His ways are not our ways and His thoughts are not our thoughts.

 

[Sarah1972]

Yed. It's the self. But that is where this conversation seems to stick. You view God as a self with needs. In fact the notion that God has a self esteem is illogical. I was always taught to see God as a source of divine love and light. Only. This is why I having a problem with the topic. If you god as a self with standards then you see him as a human being.

 

[Sarah1972]

My question probably won't get answered. "Why it's necessary for God to judge." Because of how i see him. But what it boils down to, is what does God personally gave against Gays? How does it alter God's day to know there are Gays in a world he created, where he should have no need for sex, or reproduction, or gratification from punishment given to reach a lesson to a sinner. I wanted something more profound to take to my freinds. But I guess that's not a possibility here.

 

[nanookadenord]

Yed. It's the self. But that is where this conversation seems to stick. You view God as a self with needs. In fact the notion that God has a self esteem is illogical. I was always taught to see God as a source of divine love and light. Only. This is why I having a problem with the topic. If you god as a self with standards then you see him as a human being.

Actually, I do not view God as having needs. I believe that is coming from your understanding of God. I know that God needs nothing from us. He is all and needs nothing from any of His creation.

Therefore, I do not see God as a human being. I was merely showing you what the true definition of ego is, as it definitely does not apply to God in anyway.

 

[nanookadenord]

My question probably won't get answered. "Why it's necessary for God to judge." Because of how i see him. But what it boils down to, is what does God personally gave against Gays? How does it alter God's day to know there are Gays in a world he created, where he should have no need for sex, or reproduction, or gratification from punishment given to reach a lesson to a sinner. I wanted something more profound to take to my freinds. But I guess that's not a possibility here.

I actually answered your question, but I'm not sure that you are seeing the forest for the trees so to speak.

God alone has righteous judgement. He is the only one that can judge perfectly as He is perfect. Christians are called to judge their own, but not the world. Do some Christians judge the world? Yes, they do, but Christians are human and humans are flawed. God is allowed to judge as our creator. He has that right as He is God. As far as gay people go, it is in His Bible that being homosexual is a sin. That is not my judgement, but what the Bible says. Why? It goes against the natural order of things. I am merely stating what the Bible says and nothing more.

You are correct that God has no need of sex, gratification or reproduction, but the human race as a whole does need at the very least sex and reproduction or there is no more human race. Gay people, by the very nature of their relationship unless they step outside of that relationship are unable to reproduce as you need both a man and a woman for that process to occur. The natural order of things.

 

[Sarah1972]

Well, I was basing my responses on the conclusion that you saw my previous posts. I already attempted to point that out. Maybe I got confused by your wording. Because that's why I'm bothered when people tell my freinds they're going to be punished for being gay. And I don't believe that's true.

 

[nanookadenord]

And I don't believe that's true.

That is your belief. Is that what the Bible says?

BTW, you do know there is good news right? That Jesus came to bring us salvation?

 

[Albion]

It may be that what the sinner gets is estrangement from God and that the colorful language in Scripture about fire and brimstone is an analogy to the pain of realization that the lost souls will experience.

 

[Sarah1972]

I stopped putting too much credit into the bible because of all the passages that instruct the devout to stone to death any one who wears mixed threads, refuses to Mary her husband's brother if he dies, or plants mixed crops side by side. Also, a God that attempts to destroy all of humanity with 40 day flood only to realize that it was a mistake, also denotes a human mind capable of error instead of a god that has a plan for his children but is waiting for us to have faith in his work rather then judge. I actually feel like the bible is very misleading.

 

[nanookadenord]

I stopped putting too much credit into the bible because of all the passages that instruct the devout to stone to death any one who wears mixed threads, refuses to Mary her husband's brother if he dies, or plants mixed crops side by side. Also, a God that attempts to destroy all of humanity with 40 day flood only to realize that it was a mistake, also denotes a human mind capable of error instead of a god that has a plan for his children but is waiting for us to have faith in his work rather then judge. I actually feel like the bible is very misleading.

You are using your thoughts to decide these things and as I keep saying your thoughts are not God's thoughts.

Much of what you are writing are Old Testament things. No one gets stoned to death anymore, there is no law against mixed crops side by side and the marriage thing wasn't just God's instruction, but was a custom of the day in all nations I believe, but that doesn't happen either anymore. I am talking of Christianity and not other religions.

There are many things in the Bible which seem confusing. We are to ask the Holy Spirit for guidance and/or our pastors or priests.

 

[Sarah1972]

But see that's just it. That's when I asked the question in my first threads about whether or not God had an ego. Or if God's ego is the same as a human being's ego, which shouldn't even be a question. Because if God is unconditionally loving and infinitely wise, then it should be a no-brainer about how my friends should be viewed and not judged. But the way that you were saying that implies that God has has an opinion against gays. I don't need the Bible to explain or teach what it means to have compassion and mercy for a human being that is different from myself. I highly doubt there's that technical of a difference between my compassion and mercy as a simple human vs God's opinion of compassion and mercy. This is where I have a problem identifying as Christian. I feel like so many people who call themselves Christians cannot wrap their heads around what unconditionally loving really means. Or infinitely wise for that matter. Nearly every person I ask or whom ever strikes up a conversation with me about it always adds conditions to his forgiveness. Adding a condition to unconditional love is a contradiction. And again if God is perfect, all loving, then there should be no question about acceptance. Otherwise he's not perfect. And not God. If my son grows up to be a bank robber and I promise him I'll love him all my life, then I will even if he's in prison. It wouldn't change just because he made a mistake. If I said he can have my car one day as long as he has a job and pays his bills, but I take it away if he doesn't do what I asked, I put a condition on my gift. That's just basic logic.

 

[Sarah1972]

If God loves me or my freinds no matter what, gay or not, had an abortion or not, that should not change. Punishment is anger. Anger is judgement. Judgement is human.

 

[Sarah1972]

It may be that what the sinner gets is estrangement from God and that the colorful language in Scripture about fire and brimstone is an analogy to the pain of realization that the lost souls will experience.

I was taught something similar to this, but as of lately I have been questioning it because of how fiercely angry people seem to get when some taboos come up. Was hoping for a more positive take on the subject.