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What is biblical authority...?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Saint Steven, Mar 22, 2021.

  1. GDL

    GDL Well-Known Member

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    It seems you have many concerns, many of which I have also dealt with personally along the way.

    At this point I do want to judge, but only with righteous judgment, and thus I am cautious in my desire and judgment. Again, Paul had to push strongly to get a congregation to judge one of its own as it should. To not desire to be able to do this is understandable, but seems youthful (please take this in the spirit it's being presented even if it does sound judgmental).

    Right and wrong, or good and bad, Biblically are not relative, but unchanging.

    I had a talk with a man from a European country recently who has some awareness of God, but is not a believer. As we worked through some topics, it seemed appropriate to and in line with the flow to discuss the topic of standards. Although he expressed that he thinks we should all get along, I asked him some things that I though might flush out the cultural differences between his culture and what has been the American culture, including some Biblical morals and ethics, some of which we share, and some of which we do not. He viewed me as being a bit overconcerned about a point or two. I wasn't, but I was pretty sure they would solicit some perspective of difference. I tried to make him see that this is his culture and that we think differently on these points and what problems this could very well cause us in certain circumstances.

    Ultimately, having and living only God's standards and under His rulership will be the lasting unity. They will be no different than they have ever been, because they are God's perfect character to which we shall all conform.

    There is certainly rudeness on some of these threads. I'm sure I've committed some of it. Some of what is said in the NT would certainly be considered rude and sarcastic, and some of it is. At times it's warranted.

    Yes, the agnostic and the atheist are denying God. Romans 1 makes it clear that God has made Himself clear to all and thus there is no one who is not liable to Him for denying Him. This does not mean we have to treat them harshly and I too at times try to understand why they say God is not clear to them. One thing about being labeled as arrogant for our views by some of such people, is that such an allegation can be expected against those who have our views. In truth, the arrogance is in the rejection, not in the belief or its confident expression. I do more than wonder at times how some Christians think they can irrefutably prove God's existence let alone to a mind that Romans 1 says has become worthless (some translations say reprobate or depraved (Rom1:28), but the word at its base has do do with being tested to prove no value) and turned over to itself by God in its rejection of the light and knowledge of certain things about Himself He has given to everyone.
     
  2. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    Particularly the teaching of being justified by the law (Galatians 5:4).

    Shortly after their conversion, Judaizers (Galatians 5:7) who were Jewish Christians who believed that a number of the ceremonial practices of the OT were still binding on the NT church, insisted that Gentile converts abide by certain OT rites, especially circumcision (Galatians 5:6). The Judaizers argued that Paul was not an authentic apostle and that out of a desire to make the message more appealing to Gentiles, he had removed from the gospel certain legal requirements (Acts 15:1-5).

    Paul's response was to substantiate the gospel he preached by establishing his apostolic authority (Galatians 1:10-22, Galatians 2:1-21),
    then address the issue of justification by faith and not by law keeping (Galatians 5:4-5),
    which is to fall from grace, back into law keeping (Galatians 3:1-5:12),
    exhorting them to freedom and life by the Spirit, not by the flesh (Galatians 5:13-26), and
    wrapping it up with exhortation to do good to all (Galatians 6:1-18).

    But the different gospel, the perverted gospel, the other gospel (Galatians 1:6-8) which he anathematized, which is the issue and purpose of Galatians, is a gospel of justification by law keeping.
    However, the theology in Galatians does save us.

    If the object of your faith is law keeping for forgiveness of sin and righteousness with God by Jesus Christ, you are not saved.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2021
  3. zoidar

    zoidar Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Good question. There must be a difference not knowing and denying. Most of the time people choose not to believe, because they don't want to believe. They rather stay unsure or sceptical, than "putting their money" on the saviour. A friend of mine said, who is as far as I know an atheist: "I would love to believe, it's just not possible for me." That's how he saw it. I believe the truth is that he doesn't want to believe. Otherwise he would be seeking God.
     
  4. GDL

    GDL Well-Known Member

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    I think your thinking here is off-base in some certain respects. I'll let another answer you and tag him to continue if he chooses:

    I'd also supplement by saying God exists and Jesus is His Christ to whom all knees shall bow. I'm not skeptical of this, nor were many that have died rather than renounce Him. I believe the Scriptures and do not believe them to be wrong. I think what they teach makes perfect sense and that they are historically cohesive to the point of not being from the minds of men. This accords with what I thought about the existence of God long before I read Scripture or came to believe in Jesus Christ. The way I see it from Scripture, this made me one of those whom God does not point out in Romans 1.

    There's somethings about Faith also. It is not blind as some will say, but clearly based per Scripture in some level of evaluating what we hear and learn along the way. Also, if I were to open up some discussion on the translation of Hebrews 11:1 and some things I've learned and considered about what it can be saying about Biblical Faith, we'd end up in a discussion about what I think could well have been aimed at Classical Greek philosophy and the Socratic method of reasoning by which they reasoned to find truth. John takes a shot at this when he discusses the logos. I don't think he was alone in dealing with the "brilliant" minds of the day.

    Bottom line: A young faith in a person can certainly deal with skepticism, but the Bible negatively calls this being double-minded and doubting. Over time, the Faith makes much more sense than the theories of the world as it pursues its concepts of immortality and utopian existence from one socio-political theory to the next. I've no doubt I will stand face-to-face with Jesus Christ and be evaluated by Him for all I've said and done here.
     
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  5. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Everything began with a voice, use yours Supporter

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    Mystery babylon, deifying man through his interpretation of a book that has been elevated to the status of God.

    It's selective re-interpretations like this that cause the unbelievers to dismiss us as hypocrites.
     
  6. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Everything began with a voice, use yours Supporter

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    Hmm, since the Truth of God sets us free, then denying it would to be putting on some chains?
     
  7. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    That saw cuts both ways.

    Are you able to allow that it is possible to understand the gospel, or the NT?

    Remove the beam from. . .
     
  8. Loversofjesus_2018

    Loversofjesus_2018 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks you for sharing this with me. I’m not talking about denying the creator but denying a certain religious view
     
  9. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    His revelation in the Scriptures, for starters.
     
  10. Loversofjesus_2018

    Loversofjesus_2018 Well-Known Member

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    But even in seeking and trying to understand we are in a place at some point and time a person must take that words or opinions of history. Which I’m not saying is a issue for everyone but I absolutely see how the mistrust of human beings causes people to question anything they read. For some maybe not. Some people may look at the attendees of the council of Nicaea and say why would I trust them? I can understand that stance and well as the person who decides to trust in the decisions made there.
     
  11. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    They are denying the testimony of Scripture, which does know and is truth.
     
  12. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    If you don believe their testimony, then you are in unbelief.

    Seek God and his Holy Spirit to show you his truth of the matter, that you may come out of unbelief.
     
  13. Loversofjesus_2018

    Loversofjesus_2018 Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely it’s is possible. I wouldn’t be so arrogant to say it is not.
     
  14. Loversofjesus_2018

    Loversofjesus_2018 Well-Known Member

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    But a person has to believe they are from God first before they are considered deniars of the truth right?
     
  15. Loversofjesus_2018

    Loversofjesus_2018 Well-Known Member

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    So if a person is like Thomas who refused to believe what the others had testified about.... Then what? Was God mad a Thomas for this?
     
  16. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    Word of God Eternal (John 1:1)
    Word of God Incarnate (John 1:14)
    Word of God written-- (Matthew 19:4-6), where creation account is God's words, although they are the writer's words; the whole "book" is the word of God
    Are you sure that's what causes it?
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2021
  17. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    2 + 2 = 4 whether, you believe it is true arithmetic or not.

    Those who are in doubt, whether it really is 3 or 5 or whatever, are in unbelief of arithmetic.

    You want proof that is not available to the disobedient (John 17:7) .
     
  18. Loversofjesus_2018

    Loversofjesus_2018 Well-Known Member

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    Lol yea you are correct but someone who doesn’t know how to do math can be blamed for not getting the correct answer in your eyes?
     
  19. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    Thomas was in unbelief regarding their testimony.

    Jesus gave him the proof he needed regarding their testimony.

    Seek God and his Spirit for the proof you need regarding the NT writers' testimony.
     
  20. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

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    No, not which denomination as a whole, but when doctrines are 180 degrees different and both claim biblical authority.

    Saint Steven said:
    So, is there authority in the differences? Can authority be in disagreement with itself?
     
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