what is actually the meaning of sexual immorality?

[Plodzilla]

' pretty soon though thats not enough cause the demon will withhold some of the joy they were experiencing doing that, then the demon will suggest something else. like mutulation, then next maybe a little branding, then next maybe a little ear stretching, then next rings in your tounge and nose and chin an d navel and nipples, then next hanging upside dwwon in a basement dungenon. then next maybe sacrifice to the demon, then next death.
its the same ole story , just like first its cigarettes , and alcohol, then marijauana, then hashish, then LSD, Then crack, then whatever is next and then you wind up on a morgue table.'

I'm sorry, this is ********. This one of the most stupid things I've ever heard. Not everybody who likes a drink or a bit of kinky sex ends up making human sacrifices or dead. Most people grow out of using drugs, with those that don't it's symptomatic of some other problem. I used to take drugs all the time (my friends called me 'The Dustbin' because they could put anything in to me) and now I just don't feel the need to. I've never killed a baby in the name of the devil, or do I know anyone that has

 

[jessedance]

plodzilla;

I'm sorry, this is ********. This one of the most stupid things I've ever heard. Not everybody who likes a drink or a bit of kinky sex ends up making human sacrifices or dead

Didn't say they do. but there is that drawing there from demons, fortunately most people have enoguh common sense to stop at some point. but more and more people arent stoping. more and more people are going deeper and deeper down that road.
i don't smoke cigarettes, but I use to and i knew how to roll my own. one time after I had quite smoking i rolled some cigarettes for a girl. it was wrong and the demon jumped on me and all of a sudden i had a desire for smoking. so i quit. I knew whatwas happening. most people don't know its demons. then i would have smoked and ok how bout marijanaa? yea cool, how bout hash ? i dunno yea cool. How bout lsd? give it to me. how bout crack? more more..
see how it goes. if you don't stop somewhere along the line and put your foot down thats where the devil or demons will lead you. i say nip it in the bud. stop it for it sstarts,. dont smoke , dont drink, dont cuss, (cussing leads to abusive language to people , that leads to altercations, that leads to fights, that leads to stabbings, that leads to gun batttles, that leads to death. the devil has a plan to take you down the road to death and he always starts of with something easy. something not to bad for you. be perfect dont give the devil even an inch.

 

[Plodzilla]

Ok, fair point. If you want to call temptations demons, fair enough. It meens the same thing. I must admit I have a real problem with a lot of devout Christian attitudes to drugs etc. This is not aimed at you, so if I word this badly, forgive me. A friend of mine was very troubled by an addiction to drugs that was brought on by the collapse of his family. He'd had severe mental problems for a while before this. He met someone in the institute that was treating him that was an evangelist. Within weeks, he'd disowned his friends and family and joined this church. Now, there is nothing wrong with this. I have no problem with people acknowleding their spiritual side. It's just that it gave him a comfort zone that stopped him dealing with the real problems he was going through. He's still a mess, but now he tries to justify it through God. It just hasn't helped him

 

[jessedance]

well plod; Jesus sets lots of people free from the desire for drugs. people in our church were at one time drug users. and they had been set free instantly when they got saved. happens a lot. Jesus can take that desire away. set you on the right road to salvation

 

[Plodzilla]

I don't think you've understood what I'm saying. In this case, it just hasn't helped him at all. He's still nuts. He's just replaced drugs with the church, which is not a good thing. It's still got the same problems, but now he won't even attempt to deal with them. To me, that's not right at all. Spirituality is not a crutch. It's not a safety net. If the guy was sane when he joined, fair enough. If he was insane, joined, and then became sane, also fine. But joining insane, remaining insane and now walking around teetering on the brink of a full mental breakdown at any given moment is not good. The church he's with (I wish I knew its name) has managed to convince him he's fine, but he is blatantly not, and i think this is wrong.

 

[Rocinante]

The similarities between the drug culture and the Charismatic religious subculture are well-documented by science.

Twenty minutes to a half-hour of praise and worship music has been shown to produce marked changes in the brain activity of the subjects. Morphine-like substances called endorphins are released in the brain, producing a drug-induced high just like the high that other drug addicts get.

That's why there are so many ex drug addicts among the Charismatics and FundaGelicals.......they have simply switched one medicating subculture for another.

 

[Plodzilla]

Cheers for putting it like that. He'd have the same experience joining an aerobics class.

 

[Karl - Liberal Backslider]

Plod's right.

Mrs Backslider works in mental health. Mental health professionals often have very uneasy feelings towards the more - erm - enthusiastic churches because of exactly this sort of phenomenon. For some reason they attract very screwed up people like moths to a flame; when these people's problems are wrongly put down to demons and unconfessed sin and a hundred and one other spiritual paranoid misdiagnoses their treatment can often become far harder.

She (like me) spends much time saying "Yes, I'm a Christian; yes, I go to church; no I'm not like that..."

 

[Rocinante]

Cheers for putting it like that. He'd have the same experience joining an aerobics class.

Roz sez:

Or running. I run, and runner's high is also a well-documented result of endorphins.

However, aerobics classes and runners are not blasted with emotional spiritual propaganda while high.

The music at aerobics classes does not have a powerful message that you must stay loyal to the aerobics class or burn in hell forever like those "other" people who don't do the aerobics.

Aerobics classes and runners are not brainwashed with Religious Right propaganda while high.

And most aerobics classes (I hope) and runners are not part of an aggressive Religious Right agenda..........are they?

Naw.

 

[jessedance]

.

Twenty minutes to a half-hour of praise and worship music has been shown to produce marked changes in the brain activity of the subjects. Morphine-like substances called endorphins are released in the brain, producing a drug-induced high just like the high that other drug addicts get.

.

man i do like getting high in the spirit.its fantastic. i don't get withdrawls or ever overdose. but I feel like i get just as high as drug addicts do. getting high is spiritual i think. so with drugs you get high with demonic spirits, with god you get high with angelic spirits. thats just a guess on my part though.

 

[Rocinante]

I guess I can safely rest my case.

 

[Plodzilla]

What about Peyoteism or other shamanic religions where they use drugs in ritual worship? Is it the same thing?

 

[artybloke]

Probably, Plod.

Anyway, I was wondering what was immoral about drinking urine? (jessedance brought this up) Disgusting, maybe. Some strange people even think it's healthy ( ) but immoral?

 

[Plodzilla]

If drinking urine isn't immoral, does that make eating turds okay too? Just so I know, for future referance. I'd hate to be caught out one day.

 

[jessedance]

soemthings should be obvious, they use to be anyway. ive been around for a few years < I know.

 

[Rocinante]

One thing that should be obvious is that exchanging one addiction for another does not solve the problem.

Thus...... moving addicts from alcohol to Charismatic/FundaGelical worship leaves them with serious issues that never get dealt with.

And as JesseDance has pointed out so well, the endorphines from raucous "Praise and Worship" bring an incredible high for some people.

And I have myself seen the pervasive family problems in these religious groups, the frequent divorce, employment problems, the abuses of spouse and children, the obesity, self-hate, smoking, shopping, working to excess, the obsession with controlling others........all things that go hand in hand with the untreated and progressively deteriorating addictive personality.

The sad and concealed story of the Charismatic and FundaGelical religious sub-culture.

 

[jessedance]

And as JesseDance has pointed out so well, the endorphines from raucous "Praise and Worship" bring an incredible high for some people.

And I have myself seen the pervasive family problems in these religious groups, the frequent divorce, employment problems, the abuses of spouse and children, the obesity, self-hate, smoking, shopping, working to excess, the obsession with controlling others........all things that go hand in hand with the untreated and progressively deteriorating addictive personality.

The sad and concealed story of the Charismatic and FundaGelical religious sub-culture.

well, I get high in the spirit but I'm not addicted to it perse.i mean i look forward to getting experienceing God's love and experiencing gods pressence at worship time ,and this results in an ecstasy, extreme sensations of enibriation frequently.. there have been times when i have done without if for a few months at a time , I've been getting high in the spirit since 1985, and I never felt withdrawl symptoms. i've been married for 8 wonderfull years, i dont have any employment problems (i'm disabled since2001) but worked steadlly prior to that time., I don't abuse my wife, I love here. I have to admidt I was a little bit of a work aholic when I worked but not eccessively, I have no children, i'm not obese (all that dancing vigoursly keeps it off) i don't hate myself, I quite smoking in 1976 and havent smoked since, shopping is my wifes domain, and I have no obsession in controlling others so listen to what i say.'
I can say I have seen a number of divorces in our church, but divorce is rampant all across america. I only know a couple people in our church that smoke, I don';t know of anyone whho abuses their mate, most everyone has good employment practices in our church, theres a few that don't but very fewand the ones i'm think ing of are young adults . like 20. our pastor never has to ask for more money. he always gets enoguh without having to ask for it. except one time he did a couple years ago ., he remonstrated people for not tithing that time. but he didn't mention any names. and later he said things improved greatly . but that was the only time in the 20 years ive been going there that he ever said anything about the givinig at the church.
perhaps you know of a church that fits the description but mine don't.

 

[jessedance]

artbloke' yes drinking urine is immoral. if your human that is. i have a bucket in my work shed I urinate in, im 55 and you have to urinate more frequently at my age, anyway yesterday morning i went out and found a mouse had fallen in it and drown. now that wasn't immoral cause he was a mouse, but a human , come on thats gotta be sicko.
gag gag gag barf barf

 

[artybloke]

come on thats gotta be sicko

Couldn't agree more personally; however, just because you or I find something disgusting doesn't make it a sin. As I said, some strange people say it's good for your health. I don't see it myself. I mean, ugh! But if they believe in it, who am I to stop them.

You shouldn't make the mistake of making everything you personally don't like or find disgusting into a moral issue. I don't like the music of Brittany Spears (I mean the music, by the way, not her look-at-me-aren't-I-naughty behaviour), I think it's disgustingly commercialised pap; but I don't think it's immoral.

On the other hand, the Osmonds - those teeth are surely the Devil's gravestones!

 

[jessedance]

arty ; when i was a kid I had a play mate whos mother use to make him pee in a teaspoon and she would pour it in his ear if he had an ear acke.. no kidding . we use to tease him about it. I guess that would qualify as healthfull, if it works. people in america use to burn buffalo chips for fire fuel. bodily waste have theraputic and healthy values. I can't imagine though what possitive benift could come from reinjesting through your mouth that which your body has rejected and eliminated either as deffication or urine. seems to me the only motive would be some kind of sexual perverted motive, and therefore imoral. perversion is immorality.