What if we aren't in the End?

[adderbolt]

We must apply a wisdom in our daily life.

Sometimes, to say a social lie is not a sin and sometimes to say truth in a wrong situation can be a sin or to cause a violence or return painful memories.

There is only one Judge. And wisdom is not every man, and by himself, judging his own sins.

 

[trophy33]

There is only one Judge. And wisdom is not every man, and by himself, judging his own sins.

If there is no accuser, there is also no judge.

 

[renniks]

Suppose for a moment that the End is not near, at least not as near as we consider the term.

Would that at all affect our roles as Christians?

Why would it?

 

[Timtofly]

This definition does not work for spiritual beings who can also sin.

There are no spiritual beings who can sin. Show one mentioned in Scripture.

 

[Douggg]

There are no spiritual beings who can sin. Show one mentioned in Scripture.

Satan and his angels.

Ezekiel 28:

15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

 

[trophy33]

There are no spiritual beings who can sin. Show one mentioned in Scripture.

Satan.

 

[adderbolt]

If there is no accuser, there is also no judge.

That might be true in human courts but Almighty but

“I know their works and their thoughts, and the time is coming to gather all nations and tongues. And they shall come and shall see my glory” - Isaiah 66.

Almighty God is both accuser and Judge.

-

 

[trophy33]

That might be true in human courts but Almighty but

“I know their works and their thoughts, and the time is coming to gather all nations and tongues. And they shall come and shall see my glory” - Isaiah 66.

Almighty God is both accuser and Judge.

-

Not anymore.

 

[adderbolt]

Not anymore.

Yes, evermore.

 

[trophy33]

Yes, evermore.

"The one believing in Him is not judged"
J 3:18

 

[adderbolt]

Sin is an act of aggression against the Holy God.

"The one believing in Him is not judged"
J 3:18

We (human creatures) all sin. And all sins are accounted for either (!) through God's justice or (2) by and through God's mercy.

So we are talking about number (2) here or "The one believing in Him is not judged" (John 3:13). He or (The one believing in Him) is granted mercy (grace) by Almighty God. But his sins are still judged and accounted for through Jesus Christ's work of atonement on the Cross.

 

[trophy33]

We (human creatures) all sin. And all sins are accounted for either (!) through God's justice or (2) by and through God's mercy.

Who believes in Jesus does not sin.

But his sins are still judged and accounted for through Jesus Christ's work of atonement on the Cross.

The cross already happened.

 

[adderbolt]

The cross already happened.

Yes the cross already happened: one perfect unblemished sacrifice for all of God's sons and daughters, past, present and future.

Now - please take the last word - have at it.

 

[Timtofly]

Satan and his angels.

Ezekiel 28:

15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

"yet you are a man, not God"

Only in the likeness of a human. Not in the spiritual sense.

 

[Douggg]

"yet you are a man, not God"

Only in the likeness of a human. Not in the spiritual sense.

You are quoting from Ezekiel 28:1-10 which is about the little horn>Antichrist>beast person.

The person is a human being, who magnifies himself in his heart that he has achieved God-hood.
2 Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:

Back in Daniel 8, about the little horn person...

25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

Remember Daniel and Ezekiel lived about the same time, but in different places. Some of the
information came to Daniel and some to Ezekiel.

___________________________________________________________________

Differently from Ezekiel 28:1-10, Ezekiel 28:16-19 is about Satan.

The little horn/Antichrist/beast is a different person than Satan.

 

[Jipsah]

Suppose for a moment that the End is not near, at least not as near as we consider the term. Would that at all affect our roles as Christians?

Not in the least. We're all in our End Times, aren't we?

 

[Timtofly]

You are quoting from Ezekiel 28:1-10 which is about the little horn>Antichrist>beast person.

The person is a human being, who magnifies himself in his heart that he has achieved God-hood.
2 Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:

Back in Daniel 8, about the little horn person...

25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

Remember Daniel and Ezekiel lived about the same time, but in different places. Some of the
information came to Daniel and some to Ezekiel.

___________________________________________________________________

Differently from Ezekiel 28:1-10, Ezekiel 28:16-19 is about Satan.

The little horn/Antichrist/beast is a different person than Satan.

God is applying human traits to Satan.

 

[Douggg]

God is applying human traits to Satan.

Ezekiel 28:1-10 is to the prince of Tyre
Ezekiel 28:16-19 is to the king of Tyre.

A prince is the son of a king.

 

[Timtofly]

Ezekiel 28:1-10 is to the prince of Tyre
Ezekiel 28:16-19 is to the king of Tyre.

A prince is the son of a king.

The point was Satan and angels do not sin. You are the one using Ezekiel to claim Satan and angels sin. If you claim these verses are not about Satan, then my point still stands. Sin is only a condition of humans and cannot be applied to spiritual beings. This chapter does not say spiritual beings sin or can sin. They apply human attributes, yes, but that does not make Satan any more a human than making one's pet a human or sinner by applying human attributes. Angels cannot have genetic offspring. If you claim the son and father relationship, they both are still men. They are not spiritual beings. None of the verses can be used to literally apply to Satan or any angel. When angels are in human form, they can have human attributes. But sin is and remains a human attribute, and has nothing to do with spiritual beings as spiritual beings.

 

[Douggg]

The point was Satan and angels do not sin. You are the one using Ezekiel to claim Satan and angels sin. If you claim these verses are not about Satan, then my point still stands. Sin is only a condition of humans and cannot be applied to spiritual beings. This chapter does not say spiritual beings sin or can sin. They apply human attributes, yes, but that does not make Satan any more a human than making one's pet a human or sinner by applying human attributes. Angels cannot have genetic offspring. If you claim the son and father relationship, they both are still men. They are not spiritual beings. None of the verses can be used to literally apply to Satan or any angel. When angels are in human form, they can have human attributes. But sin is and remains a human attribute, and has nothing to do with spiritual beings as spiritual beings.

It has nothing to do with being in human form or not. Sin originated from Satan.

Is murder a sin? Not only does Satan sin, he was the first, and is the worst. All of the suffering of the world can be laid at his doorstep.

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.