What if Trump wins?

[Oompa Loompa]

It’s a form of democracy, despite what you may believe.

I stated the fact the our government isn't a pure democracy. It is a representative republic. Although a representative republic is democratic in a sense that representatives are elected via popular vote, the representatives who nominate and elect the president are constitutionally by design, not. This is why there is an electoral college. The president is elected by representatives who vote on behalf of the people who elected them. Not the people themselves. However, in a situation where the election has been irredeemably compromised, the only means by which the "will of the people" can be guaranteed is by state legislatures voting on party lines. This, of course, it not a democracy at all because democracy has failed at this point.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

Ah, but that is exactly my point. The onus would be on me to connect you to a murder. I’m the one making the allegation, I’m the one that has to prove guilt. Likewise, Trump is the one claiming fraud and a rigged election. Trump and his team are the ones who have to prove it.

And again, they don't need to prove that there was enough fraud to sway the results of the election. They only need to prove that fraudulent ballots have made the results irredeemably compromised because it is now impossible to distinguish a valid vote from a fraudulent one. Again, this could have been completely avoided if the constitutional process was not bypassed or ignored out of fear of COVID19. In this situation, it isn't hard for the Trump legal team to do. But we still wait for the evidence to be presented in a court of law.

 

[dzheremi]

And again, they don't need to prove that there was enough fraud to sway the results of the election. They only need to prove that fraudulent ballots have made the results irredeemably compromised because it is now impossible to distinguish a valid vote from a fraudulent one. Again, this could have been completely avoided if the constitutional process was not bypassed or ignored out of fear of COVID19. In this situation, it isn't hard for the Trump legal team to do. But we still wait for the evidence to be presented in a court of law.

If it isn't hard to do, then why are their legal challenges consistently failing? You'd think they'd want to present all this great evidence they supposedly have so as to seriously challenge the election results, rather than being told they're failing to meet the standard of evidence required to substantiate their claims. Instead we get these completely unfounded, joke accusations that lead even judges to ask the legal team "What is your problem?" So it certainly doesn't look like it's very easy to prove, and the traditional 'October surprise' is probably not coming in December, let alone January.

 

[Sparagmos]

I stated the fact the our government isn't a pure democracy. It is a representative republic. Although a representative republic is democratic in a sense that representatives are elected via popular vote, the representatives who nominate and elect the president are constitutionally by design, not. This is why there is an electoral college. The president is elected by representatives who vote on behalf of the people who elected them. Not the people themselves. However, in a situation where the election has been irredeemably compromised, the only means by which the "will of the people" can be guaranteed is by state legislatures voting on party lines. This, of course, it not a democracy at all because democracy has failed at this point.

Nah, you said:

Like it or not, this country is not a democracy.

And once you realized you were wrong you changed your wording.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

Nah, you said:


And once you realized you were wrong you changed your wording.

Okay. I just don't want to hear about how Trump "stole the election from the people" and that he is "undermining our democracy" because he is reelected as the constitution designed. I concede that our system of government is democratic in a sense. But it is far from being a pure democracy. If Trump is reelected, this will show to be the case. Now, is there anything else you would like to argue? Of not, would you like to get back on topic and explain how you would handle a Trump reelection under these constitutional circumstances?

 

[A_Thinker]

Okay. I just don't want to hear about how Trump "stole the election from the people" and that he is "undermining our democracy" because he is reelected as the constitution designed.

From a federal standpoint, perhaps.

But from the standpoint of the states, ... assigning electors in a way other than that which was established and thus expected by those who elected state officials would be, in effect, ... changing the rules after the election.

 

[TexFire316]

I'd move before he somehow gets himself a third term and becomes dictator for life.

Now see. I heard all of those threats and promises from people when he won in 2016. Yet, they are all still here and living freely and prosperously. I truly doubt you will go anywhere.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

From a federal standpoint, perhaps.

But from the standpoint of the states, ... assigning electors in a way other than that which was established and thus expected by those who elected state officials would be, in effect, ... changing the rules after the election.

But what has been established in the constitution is that should the election become compromised, it is left the the state legislation, not the electoral college, to decide the president. Because the "will of the people" cannot be determined.

 

[A_Thinker]

But what has been established in the constitution is that should the election become compromised, it is left the the state legislation, not the electoral college, to decide the president. Because the "will of the people" cannot be determined.

The Constitution doesn't say anything about HOW the states select their presidential electors. That is left to the states.

The states have currently established a pattern and expectation that they will hold viable popular elections in the states ... and select the presidential electors for their states according to the results of the state popular elections.

To do counter to that ... is to betray the expectations of the people in their states, ... ultimatly risking their own elected positions ... and risking lawsuits for changing the election rules ... after the election is complete.

That is why the only recourse open to Trump is challenge individual states' assertions that they held a fair and equitable election ... which, when complete, will reflect the majority will of their populations.

Trump cannot challenge the legitimacy of the entire nation's balloting. He can only do it state by state ... charging that they haven't fulfilled what they have each said that they will do ...

 

[Strathos]

Now see. I heard all of those threats and promises from people when he won in 2016. Yet, they are all still here and living freely and prosperously. I truly doubt you will go anywhere.

Tell that to the 260,000+ dead of coronavirus.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

Trump did win. It is time for the left to just stop all these frivolous lawsuits trying to overturn the will of the American people. They failed with Hillary, they failed with impeachment, and they failed with Biden. The coup will not succeed.

 

[tulc]

Trump did win. It is time for the left to just stop all these frivolous lawsuits trying to overturn the will of the American people. They failed with Hillary, they failed with impeachment, and they failed with Biden. The coup will not succeed.

Well...this post convinced me...
tulc(is going to stare moodily into his coffee and think about life now...)

 

[Belk]

Seriously. The Trump legal team has made some very serious accusations regarding the 2020 election. From small abnormalities to national systemic voter fraud. Their argument is simply to provide enough evidence to convince the court that the election results are "irredemebly compromised" to the point that the whole election is tossed out altogether and is then left to the individual state legislatures to decide as outlined in Article I section 2 of the Constitution. If this happens (and this is a big "IF") and it is determined by the court that Biden's victory was a result of fraud, and through the legal and Constitutional process it is determined that Trump wins reelection. What would be your honest response? Keep in mind that Trump would be legally and constitutionally elected.

My response would be to wonder why there is only a response on the executive side. If there was such widespread fraud why are we not looking at the house and senate races? Why is it always assumed the presidential race is the only one affected?

 

[Oompa Loompa]

My response would be to wonder why there is only a response on the executive side. If there was such widespread fraud why are we not looking at the house and senate races? Why is it always assumed the presidential race is the only one affected?

Excellent point. That issue is being looked at in Georgia for their Senate seats.

 

[Belk]

Excellent point. That issue is being looked at in Georgia for their Senate seats.

It is? How? I thought they were simply looking into who won, not fraud.

 

[Speedwell]

would you like to get back on topic and explain how you would handle a Trump reelection under these constitutional circumstances?

Not a problem. I'm a white, straight, English-speaking native born American Christian male.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

Not a problem. I'm a white, straight, English-speaking native born American Christian male.

That is great. Don't ever be ashamed of that.

 

[Speedwell]

That is great. Don't ever be ashamed of that.

And it grants me relative safety from the Trump crowd.

 

[GOD Shines Forth!]

And it grants me relative safety from the Trump crowd.

So, what danger--that relative lack of safety your statement insinuates--have you ever been in from "the Trump crowd"?

 

[Speedwell]

So, what danger--that relative lack of safety your statement insinuates--have you ever been in from "the Trump crowd"?

Not me, as I pointed out. I'm even registered as an Independent, so I won't be on any lists right away. But, for my sins, I lived in the Bible Belt and have seen for myself what to expect if Trump manages to hold in to his office and the "Jesus hates gun control and thinks global warming is a hoax" mob winds up running the whole country.