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What if Trump wins?

Discussion in 'The Kitchen Sink' started by Oompa Loompa, Nov 20, 2020.

  1. Oompa Loompa

    Oompa Loompa Against both police brutality and cop killing.

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    Seriously. The Trump legal team has made some very serious accusations regarding the 2020 election. From small abnormalities to national systemic voter fraud. Their argument is simply to provide enough evidence to convince the court that the election results are "irredemebly compromised" to the point that the whole election is tossed out altogether and is then left to the individual state legislatures to decide as outlined in Article I section 2 of the Constitution. If this happens (and this is a big "IF") and it is determined by the court that Biden's victory was a result of fraud, and through the legal and Constitutional process it is determined that Trump wins reelection. What would be your honest response? Keep in mind that Trump would be legally and constitutionally elected.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2020
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  2. dzheremi

    dzheremi Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian

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    It doesn't matter what they claim; it matters what they can prove.

    If Trump were to 'win' in this circumstance it would basically signal the end of evidence-based legal challenges, and then we would have a much bigger problem on our hands than one election.
     
  3. Der Alte

    Der Alte This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    The supporters of the other side has already shown what they will do if they don't get their way more rioting, burning, looting etc.
    If some fraud, irregularities have been found it almost a given that there is more not so readily found.
     
  4. NerdGirl

    NerdGirl The untamed daughter

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    I'd be thrilled to see our President given a chance to continue leading us back towards American exceptionalism and values.

    I'd also be more anxious than ever about future elections, since my faith in the voting system would be pretty much wrecked. I'd hope that new measures, policies, and procedures would be put in place to ensure that such a thing never happens again.
     
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  5. Der Alte

    Der Alte This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    If fraud/irregularities are proven to the satisfaction of the courts how is that an end to evidence-based challenges?
     
  6. Oompa Loompa

    Oompa Loompa Against both police brutality and cop killing.

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    Of course, as explained in the op, the situation assumes that the claims are proven in a court of law. The question then becomes how you would respond if Trump is legally and constitunally reelected as a result of the election being "irredeemably compromised".
     
  7. dzheremi

    dzheremi Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian

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    Why would it follow that he is then president? That makes no sense. If the election is irredeemably compromised, then it follows that it cannot be used to make positive claims concerning Trump's having won it. If it's fraudulent and not to be trusted, you don't start trusting it just because it now yields a different result...unless this really isn't about election integrity at all...

    I'm aware that you've written in the OP that in this scenario Trump would somehow be shown to have been the winner, but I don't see how you get there using the results of the same election you just successfully argued (as per your OP) is fraudulent.
     
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  8. Oompa Loompa

    Oompa Loompa Against both police brutality and cop killing.

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    Because the president will be elected by the states via a nominated representative from their respective legislation. Because the majority of states have a Republican majority in their state legislators, it is possible that Trump could be elected.
     
  9. Strathos

    Strathos No one important

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    I'd move before he somehow gets himself a third term and becomes dictator for life.
     
  10. dzheremi

    dzheremi Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian

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    I don't know what "a nominated representative from their respective legislation" means, but this is not how the electoral college works. The electors are chosen by the parties in each state, and the popular vote of each state is supposed to inform the electors who they are to cast their vote for. Since not all legislators are electors, it technically does not matter what the partisan makeup of a state's legislature is.

    Also, as you can read at the link (in the sidebar, under the question "Who are my electors and how can I contact them?"), the electors are appointed after the general election result is certified, so by that point it is presumably already known who the party in question will have on their list, making the possibility of faithless electors (e.g., a Democratic elector voting for Trump against his or her state's popular vote, or a Republican elector doing the same by voting for Biden) very remote.
     
  11. Pavel Mosko

    Pavel Mosko Arch-Dude of the Apostolic Supporter

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    Yeah I was actually thinking of posting something like this simply because if we get our legal hail mary within the right deadline, the other side pretty much has their heart set on this being a done deal in their favor, and most likely their will be 3 months of rioting in the major cities of the country. But with winter quickly approaching, maybe that wouldn't happen in the cold parts of the country...
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2020
  12. Greengardener

    Greengardener for love is of God Supporter

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    I'm a little put off by the political banter. On the one hand, does Biden really have an answer for a pandemic? Why hasn't he shared it before being elected so the thousands of people would have been spared? On the other hand, does Trump have evidence of voter manipulation/fraud to the extend that it would change the outcome of the popular vote? Let's weigh that evidence and find out what is really happening and get this thing settled. I applaud all that both President Trump and potential President-elect Biden have done for the good of the nation in the course of their respective political careers (and whether what I think they did good for the nation matches what you think they did good for the nation is another topic altogether so we won't go there here and now), for the moment, while we have a pandemic-based social shut down going on during all this election sorting, this seems more like a stage show than real life with real people who care about Americans. I'll admit, I think there's something to praying "YHWH, YOUR kingdom come and YOUR will be done on earth." My heart yearns for the truth. There is so much hype on both sides.
     
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  13. GOD Shines Forth!

    GOD Shines Forth! My Weakness for His Strength Supporter

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    D9A0DCB9-B7AC-4D65-BF0E-43E2C93D7758.jpeg
    Sometimes you just have to go there. (I may do same if he loses!)
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2020
  14. nonaeroterraqueous

    nonaeroterraqueous Nonexistent Member

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    That much fraud? One side will never believe it, and the other side will never accept it.

    Doom.
     
  15. Oompa Loompa

    Oompa Loompa Against both police brutality and cop killing.

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    It wouldn't be the electoral college. I don't think you understand the implications if the popular vote is irredeemably compromised. It means that the process that normally delegates electors to the electoral college would be compromised as well. Thus, there wouldn't be an electoral college. It would be a situation in which every state will have exactly one vote. California will have one vote. South Dakota will have one vote. All the states will have one vote. Furthermore, it would be the state legislator who will nominate the individual.
     
  16. Oompa Loompa

    Oompa Loompa Against both police brutality and cop killing.

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    He still refuses to answer the question as to whether or not he is going to pack the supreme court. He did promise to answer the question before the election. He also said he wouldn't declare victory until after the votes are all validated. He hasn't even been sworn in and he has already broken 2 promises.
     
  17. Oompa Loompa

    Oompa Loompa Against both police brutality and cop killing.

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    Some may go for something a little harder.
     
  18. chevyontheriver

    chevyontheriver Well-Known Member Supporter

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    If Trump is declared the winner by some legal and constitutional process there will inevitably come riots and arson and four more years of rabid hatred induced by the media. So my response might be to find a bunker somewhere out on the high plains and try to wait it all out.
     
  19. GoldenBoy89

    GoldenBoy89 We're Still Here

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    Has any presidential election ever been settled in this way?
     
  20. dzheremi

    dzheremi Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian

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    Where are you getting this out of section 1 of article 2, which you reference in your OP? It specifies representatives (it does not specify state legislators) from each state having one vote in the choice for president in the event of there being no clear majority, but nothing about this being the case when an election result is invalidated, which is what you are actually suggesting in the OP (a tie is not an irredeemably compromised election). Section 1 reads as follows:

    The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America. He shall hold his Office during the Term of four Years, and, together with the Vice President, chosen for the same Term, be elected, as follows:

    Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or Person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States, shall be appointed an Elector.

    The Electors shall meet in their respective States, and vote by Ballot for two Persons, of whom one at least shall not be an Inhabitant of the same State with themselves. And they shall make a List of all the Persons voted for, and of the Number of Votes for each; which List they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the Seat of the Government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate. The President of the Senate shall, in the Presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the Certificates, and the Votes shall then be counted. The Person having the greatest Number of Votes shall be the President, if such Number be a Majority of the whole Number of Electors appointed; and if there be more than one who have such Majority, and have an equal Number of Votes, then the House of Representatives shall immediately chuse by Ballot one of them for President; and if no Person have a Majority, then from the five highest on the List the said House shall in like Manner chuse the President. But in chusing the President, the Votes shall be taken by States, the Representatives from each State having one Vote; a quorum for this Purpose shall consist of a Member or Members from two thirds of the States, and a Majority of all the States shall be necessary to a Choice. In every Case, after the Choice of the President, the Person having the greatest Number of Votes of the Electors shall be the Vice President. But if there should remain two or more who have equal Votes, the Senate shall chuse from them by Ballot the Vice-President.

    The Congress may determine the Time of chusing the Electors, and the Day on which they shall give their Votes; which Day shall be the same throughout the United States.

    No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

    In Case of the Removal of the President from Office, or of his Death, Resignation, or Inability to discharge the Powers and Duties of the said Office, the Same shall devolve on the Vice President, and the Congress may by Law provide for the Case of Removal, Death, Resignation or Inability, both of the President and Vice President, declaring what Officer shall then act as President, and such Officer shall act accordingly, until the Disability be removed, or a President shall be elected.

    The President shall, at stated Times, receive for his Services, a Compensation, which shall neither be encreased nor diminished during the Period for which he shall have been elected, and he shall not receive within that Period any other Emolument from the United States, or any of them.

    Before he enter on the Execution of his Office, he shall take the following Oath or Affirmation:-"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."
     
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