What if the civil war had not happened

[Terminal_Marxicity]

1927 -- African refugees begin to flood to America

Lulz. That wouldn't even be popular today, much less back then with Jim Crow still present and in full force. Back in the Klan's heyday.

 

[Radagast]

1927 -- African refugees begin to flood to America

I was going to speculate further on that, but decided it would be safer not to.

Lulz. That wouldn't even be popular today, much less back then with Jim Crow still present and in full force. Back in the Klan's heyday.

Of course, had the South won the Civil War, there would have been no Klan and no Jim Crow. Instead, there would have been a continuation of slavery, and probably an eventual demise of slavery under pressure both internally and from overseas.

 

[RDKirk]

A friend of mine got the wrong impression of me months ago, when I told him that the North should have left the South leave the Union. Now don't misunderstand, I am against slavery as much as anyone. However, I firmly believe that Christians go to war far too easily and that they usually do not even think about Augustine's Just War doctrine. I do not know how long slavery would have lasted if the South had gone off on it's own, but I suspect it could not have lasted very long into the 1900's. The North might have been able to force the South to give up slavery through some form of economic pressure? Regardless, it just seems to me that the Civil War could have been avoided. It was not really a last resort and necessary action, as referred to by the Just War doctrine. However, I will admit that a decent case can be made for the necessity of the Civil War, as compared to what I believe was the absolute least justifiable war in U.S. history, the Revolutionary War.

Of course slavery would still exist in the US if there had been a civil war...genuine slavery still exists now in the US.

Everything done by illegal immigrants would be done by slaves.

 

[RDKirk]

However, a split America would likely see Teddy Roosevelt get re-elected as the President of the United States, and Woodrow Wilson would have been elected as President of the Confederate States. Roosevelt would have gone to war in 1914 if he had the Congressional support. So while the US wouldn't have had as much clout at once as it did in 1917, it would have been sending support for 3 more years had that happened.

<ahem?> Turtledove <ahem>

 

[RDKirk]

Of course, had the South won the Civil War, there would have been no Klan and no Jim Crow. Instead, there would have been a continuation of slavery, and probably an eventual demise of slavery under pressure both internally and from overseas.

There is barely such pressure now. There certainly would not be any sufficient pressure if the slave-holding nation was one of the most powerful in the world.

 

[Terminal_Marxicity]

I was going to speculate further on that, but decided it would be safer not to.

Self censorship is the worst kind.

 

[Radagast]

There certainly would not be any sufficient pressure if the slave-holding nation was one of the most powerful in the world.

The Confederacy, as an independent nation, would not have been particularly powerful by world standards. It would have had Britain as a major trading partner, and Britain was strongly anti-slavery (this was the main reason Britain didn't back the South in the Civil War). There were also religious leaders in the South who thought that slavery should be abolished eventually.

My guess is that somewhere between the 1860s and the year 2000, slavery in an independent Confederacy would have been abolished. One scenario is that increasing conflict between states in the Confederacy would have led to slaves being freed so that they could serve as soldiers.

But alternate history is about 99% speculation and 1% logic. History is what it is.

 

[RDKirk]

The Confederacy, as an independent nation, would not have been particularly powerful by world standards. It would have had Britain as a major trading partner, and Britain was strongly anti-slavery (this was the main reason Britain didn't back the South in the Civil War). There were also religious leaders in the South who thought that slavery should be abolished eventually.

My guess is that somewhere between the 1860s and the year 2000, slavery in an independent Confederacy would have been abolished. One scenario is that increasing conflict between states in the Confederacy would have led to slaves being freed so that they could serve as soldiers.

But alternate history is about 99% speculation and 1% logic. History is what it is.

As I pointed out, there is still slavery in the US.

So there is zero speculation...slavery would still exist because it still exists.

 

[Radagast]

Self censorship is the worst kind.

CF gets pretty savage.

 

[Radagast]

As I pointed out, there is still slavery in the US.

You're going to have to explain that.

 

[RDKirk]

You're going to have to explain that.

Contemporary slavery in the United States - Wikipedia

If it were not illegal, economic forces would not have extinguished it because the market for slaves still exists.

 

[Radagast]

Contemporary slavery in the United States - Wikipedia

If it were not illegal, economic forces would not have extinguished it because the market for slaves still exists.

I'm going to have to bow out of this conversation, because in the past I've been called a racist for suggesting that some of those things were slavery.