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What if Preachers Never Got Paid?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by LegacyJB, Mar 14, 2014.

  1. LegacyJB

    LegacyJB Soldier in God's Army

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    Who said we think they should starve? All we're saying is drop the income from being a preacher, get a job, and you're good to go. That's all they need to do.

    Here's part of a conversation that took place between my dad and my cousin who's a baptist minister.
    Cousin: Do you know why preachers are the only ones who are suppose to work on Sunday?
    Dad: Payday?
    :) It's true.
     
  2. Der Alter

    Der Alter This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    I wonder why God commanded that the tribe of Levi were not to receive any land in Israel but were to serve in the temple and live off the tithe? Why didn't God tell them to just get a job. Here are a few NT scripture which supports a paid ministry.

    Deu 25:4 Thou shalt not muzzle the ox when he treadeth out the corn.

    1Co 9:7-11
    (7)
    Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof? or who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock?
    (8) Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also?
    (9) For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?
    (10) Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.
    (11) If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?

    1Ti 5:18 For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.​

    Anectdotal. Cannot be verified. Your Dad may have been joking. What one pastor says does not prove anything about other pastors.
     
  3. Moodshadow

    Moodshadow Veteran

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    Your dad doesn't believe in paying doctors and firemen and pharmacists and hospital personnel who work on Sundays? Or the airline pilots and hotel workers and rental car people who serve your general authorities when they travel?
     
  4. NYCGuy

    NYCGuy Newbie

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    This has already been addressed here, here, and here.

    Why on earth would someone called to the ministry need to "get a job"?

    Again, your General Authorities receive a living stipend. Pot meet kettle?
     
  5. NYCGuy

    NYCGuy Newbie

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    The Mormon argument against having a "paid ministry" holds no water. Firstly, the Bible, in both Old and New Testaments, supports supporting priests and others serving God (links to relevant scriptures and exegesis on the matter have already been given in this thread). Secondly, Mormon scripture (D&C 42) itself supports the remuneration of bishops for their services to the church. It is irrelevant whether the "law of consecration" was removed, since the point is that God in Mormonism clearly allowed for the compensation of bishops. Thirdly and finally, LDS General Authorities receive a living stipend for their work, which again goes against the "paid ministers are wrong!!!" argument.
     
  6. drstevej

    drstevej Light Attracts Bugs Staff Member Chaplain Supporter

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    I have been a pastor for almost 40 years and I assure you it is not a 1 day a week job. I probably averaged 60 hours+ per week and folks would have wanted more of my time. And crisis situations can come up any time that calls for your attention. It takes a lot of wisdom to manage the shepherding of the flock and give attention to your family. That was a constant struggle over the decades.

    The jokes are fine. I am not offended. But if anyone thinks they represent reality for the vast majority of Pastors, they are absolutely wrong.

    1 Timothy 5:17-18 sets the principle of compensation. That's good enough for me. If Joseph Smith or any theologically liberal professor thinks otherwise... so be it.

    My fraternity brother who graduated with me at Ga Tech in the same major just retired at CEO of WalMart. I would not trade places with him even if they tripled the CEO salary. BTW, he is a solid believer and uses his resources to honor the Lord. I do not look down on him a bit.
     
  7. NYCGuy

    NYCGuy Newbie

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    Thank you for sharing. That's what I thought. It's the same for Catholic priests and bishops. It's a 24/7, 365 calling. It's sad that the LDS must mock this, as we see Legacy do.
     
  8. BelCantoBaptist

    BelCantoBaptist Newbie

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    They can mock all they like. I wish my pastor could have a deal through the SBC that paid his housing expenses, food, car, insurance packages, etc. All while claiming he's not "paid."
     
  9. A New Dawn

    A New Dawn God is bigger than the boogeyman!

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    You might be surprised to learn that most Christians don't lead anti-Mormon ministries. I know that you have harked back to this idea through several threads, but the truth is, most Christians don't bother with Mormons. And I really hate to say it, but I don't believe that there are many, if any, ministers who are Sunday-only ministers.
     
  10. A New Dawn

    A New Dawn God is bigger than the boogeyman!

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    You are describing maybe 1/10th of 1% of preachers. Most preachers have much smaller groups that provide little in the way of support for the minister. I know preachers that do have to have second jobs in order to support themselves (my chiropractor is a Baptist minister). So, it is really hard to take this kind of commentary seriously when you are speaking only about a miniscule number of preachers. I assume that this discussion is about paid ministers across the board, not just the mega-millionaire ministers of mega churches.
     
  11. A New Dawn

    A New Dawn God is bigger than the boogeyman!

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    In case you haven't realized, there is a difference between a church with a lay ministry that each person is expected to donate a small amount of their time to the ministry, and a church that has one, maybe two, ministers to pastor the whole flock. In a church with only a couple of ministers, there is no time to pastor the flock and have a job.

    As an RLDS, I came from a church where everyone was expected to donate a small amount of time for the ministry, and it didn't work. In a congregation of 25, I had 4 positions. I was the worship commissioner, I was the young adult leader, I taught Sunday School and I was on the outreach team. I spent almost as much time as a full-time worker might on work for the church. And, again, that was in a group where the ministry was supposed to be spread out.

    But enough about others, when are you going to write to the general leaders of your church and tell them to drop the income and get a job? What you say is nothing but double-speak.
     
  12. Lollerskates

    Lollerskates Junior Member

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    I never said all preachers are swindlers, but many are. And, they come in the form of small and huge mega churches. As I said, I have been in shack churches and huge mega churches. Being rich isn't the problem, it is the oppulence and attitude of "I deserve/need these things." An ignorant flock nurses these types of swindlers. It is as much the Church's fault as it is the wolves in sheep's clothing.

    As for the salary issue, I think that is something the flock also shares blame for. The flock is supposed to give their tithes of increase to the preacher. That is his "salary." The church for a preacher is his house, or at least should be. I know plenty of churches - big and small, teaching and lacking - that housed the preacher, his wife, and/or childrenl. And, the flock were people who had trades - doctors, smiths, lawyers, scientists, etc. So, they built things, tended to medical emergencies, helped with gardens - all type of things that were primarily for the preacher, but shared by the flock. It is possible; being a preacher isn't about the biggest flock or most money. You should be able to go everywhere you need to go to minister with absolutely nothing. You don't have to, but if the flock helped modern preachers like the Hebrews treated Levite priests, they wouldn't need a salary.

    They certainly don't need a salary, non-profit non-taxables, non-taxable donations, etc. And, there are many preachers either too scared of losing their flock to teach the bible as it should be taught - with all of the controversial language, or they do not simply because of ignorance or conscious witholdal.
     
  13. drstevej

    drstevej Light Attracts Bugs Staff Member Chaplain Supporter

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    My salary would have been three times what it was under that scenario.

    How many? I know hundreds of pastors personally and I think you are skewing the data.
     
  14. A New Dawn

    A New Dawn God is bigger than the boogeyman!

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    I think that while this might be the ideal, it is a pretty naive way of thinking, especially in today's world where, especially in big cities, there are no farmers or carpenters or doctors in many congegations. And while many churches do provide a parish residence for the minister, there are other cost-of-living expenses that need to be seen to. In most instances it has nothing to do with the preacher not preaching what the Bible says, it has to do with the demographics of the congregants.

    I think you are absolutely wrong. I am sure there are some, definitely more than we see brought to light in the news, but I think "many" is going much too far. Some. A few. Maybe, but not many. I think that to question the integrity of most men of faith just because there are a few hacks out there is wrong.
     
  15. Lollerskates

    Lollerskates Junior Member

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    O.K...



    I don't know as many personally, but I have been to a few continents and traveled frequently, enough to see a trend globally based on many interactions. More than I have fingers and toes several times over. But, I don't think you have to come in contact with, or personally know any preacher to hear their message and discern that they are not right - or they are. In this age of google, you can background check any pastor.

    I could care less if you think I am skewing the data.
     
  16. Lollerskates

    Lollerskates Junior Member

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    Why are you living in cities? That isn't a requirement. Many "holy men," in fact, lived in villages, and abhored cities (for what should be obvious reasons.)


    I am talking about the entire church of corruption. That means preachers swindling for money, teaching false things, not teaching the Word of God, etc. That is a large percentage. You may think I am wrong, but we can go on a info dig on many of these pastors - poor/unknown and rich/known. I bet a majority would yield unsavory results in my favor. Of course, there are tens of thousands of pastors in the States, and hundreds of thousands worldwide. So, there is no logistical statistic that would vindicate you or me. We go by experience and extrapolate it. We can agree to disagree, no problem. But, I am not basing my opinion on a "few" hacks. As I said previously, I have been through a gauntlet of all types of ministers - internationally.
     
  17. LegacyJB

    LegacyJB Soldier in God's Army

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    The Levites were called of God. Last I checked, these paid ministers don't believe in having temples today.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2014
  18. LegacyJB

    LegacyJB Soldier in God's Army

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    Don't even try making shots at my family. Does Christ condone that? Is that another characteristic of "orthodoxy"? He was making a joke.
     
  19. LegacyJB

    LegacyJB Soldier in God's Army

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    Preachers aren't called by God. They go to school for their authority.

    As it was already addressed, the General Authorities do nothing but their callings. These "preachers" have time to get real jobs instead of mooching off members of their congregation.
     
  20. LegacyJB

    LegacyJB Soldier in God's Army

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    You, of all people, are crying mockery? What have you "good Christians" been doing this whole time? That's all you people do. I mocked nothing. All I said is ministers don't deserve payment for what they do and that they need real jobs.
     
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