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What if Preachers Never Got Paid?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by LegacyJB, Mar 14, 2014.

  1. BelCantoBaptist

    BelCantoBaptist Newbie

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    OK. If all you say is true then please let the public examine the LDS church's financial records. Heck, why not get your deacon to post his up here. Also, can you please explain why the manual instructs these people to act shadily towards the IRS?
     
  2. Phantasman

    Phantasman Newbie

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    Oh shoot. I'm the first to do that. Sorry.(post 22)
     
  3. Norah63

    Norah63 Newbie

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    What if preachers never got paid? Just couldn't have a thread that wasent lds being the only preachers examined by orthodox. How many churches actually have only unpaid preachers? any guesses?
     
  4. Der Alter

    Der Alter This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    You have not been my anything! You simply makes assertions without any evidence. I ask for evidence not opinion. I have been in Federal court several times, the courts require evidence not my unsupported opinion. When I was in grad school I had to document everything, I wrote, my unsupported opinion was not relevant. I do my own research, I have more than a decade of research on a thumb drive including several language resources. I don't expect anyone to do anything for me but I do expect that if people are going to attack God, Jesus, the Christian faith that they do some research and provide some evidence. Opinions are not relevant.
     
  5. A New Dawn

    A New Dawn God is bigger than the boogeyman!

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    Why don't they offer their services for free like you believe a minister would? Doesn't a minister deserve to eat and have a roof over his head?

    And how is that any different from a Catholic or Protestant minister who is on the job 24/7? Or is it your assumption that Christian pastors only work on Sunday morning?
     
  6. Phantasman

    Phantasman Newbie

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    Hey look. I am not coming down on you for the things you have done in your life. I am sure you have benefited many lost souls.

    I am just saying that the Orthodox idea of church has become mixed with the very thing Jesus said to hate. Both masters are in the house.

    When Christianity becomes a profession, men gain physically. I don't believe Christ or any disciple or apostle gained physically, but spiritually. So reexamine what the church today has become.

    You either see it or you don't.
     
  7. A New Dawn

    A New Dawn God is bigger than the boogeyman!

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    Unsupported statements are nothing but opinion. It is your responsibility to support your arguments.
     
  8. A New Dawn

    A New Dawn God is bigger than the boogeyman!

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    There is a difference between "gaining" and being able to live. I'm surprised that there are so many here who would allow ministers of God to starve to death and freeze in the winter. Sheesh.
     
  9. Norah63

    Norah63 Newbie

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    It's clear to all who desire to see it, those who will not to, haven't yet.
    How many do we think would still preach as much as they do now, if it was free will, as in communist countries.
    I would and do consider it an honor to share the things of faith that have been revealed to me, and would feel insulted if money was offered.
     
  10. Phantasman

    Phantasman Newbie

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    The ECF are evidence to you. The NHL is evidence as well. Well documented, and studied. You just simply don't believe it. I question the ECF. Because I read them. Study them. Do you read and study the NHL. Do you allow prayer and study be your spiritual guide? Or do you simply accept what has been common for 1800 years?

    You have already made the comment that WIKI is like "bathroom wall scribblings". But the references for these "scribblings" are documented at the bottom of the page. Many religious articles pointing to the Catholic Encyclopedia as well as other historical references. If I quote WIKI, it "starts" someone on the further search. But you simply deny the name WIKI yet uphold the CE as all truth.

    Surely the catholics are not going to stab themselves. They tried to destroy everything they didn't agree with. Now we get a chance to see if what they did was justified. And many won't even look.

    A seeker seeks truth.
     
  11. Phantasman

    Phantasman Newbie

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    If they starved to death, would they have been ministers of God?

    Matthew
    25 Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?
    26 Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?


    I guess they had no faith.
     
  12. Ironhold

    Ironhold Member

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    What would you do if I told you that I've known ministers who were pretty much Sunday-only?

    I can think of two just off the top of my head whose anti-Mormon ministries were - by their own admission - secondary to their day jobs.
     
  13. Der Alter

    Der Alter This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    No I do not "study" anonymous writings. The same faults you find with the Bible and the ECF exists within the NHL. How have the NHL been documented?

    There may be some factual information on Wiki, but there is also garbage. As I said I have changed "articles" in the past to show people, who criticize my view of wiki, that it can be done. If one wishes to find a source at Wiki and consult the primary source, I don't have a problem.

    That cuts both ways. Surely the NHL are not going to stab themselves. I think the operative word is "tried." The RCC "tried" to destroy many things but the existence of the NHL, etc. proves they could not do it. There was no RCC until 1375. I refuse to believe that the 300+ bishops, at Nicaea, all of whom had survived years of persecution, were all corrupt. And if i am going to accept the NHL, I want to see some solid gold evidence. You got any of that? Or just your subjective opinion?
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2014
  14. Norah63

    Norah63 Newbie

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    Two more scriptures that come to mind Acts 3:1.... Peter and John going to pray and a lame man asked for alms, Peter said I do not possess silver and gold, but what I do have I give to you: In the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene--walk!
    Also acts 8;18 Simon saw that the Spirit was bestowed, he offered money to receive, and Peter said, May your silver perish with you, to think you could obtain the gift of God with money.
    These make it pretty clear that the early church didn't lean on the dollar.
     
  15. ~Anastasia~

    ~Anastasia~ † Servant of God † Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    For myself, not arguing mind you, but I simply answered the question whether *I* would preach if I were called and not paid?

    That does not mean I don't think preachers should be paid. Those pastors/preachers/priests/whatever that are full-time ministers should indeed have a way to live. And while I don't have a church atm, if I did, I would prefer one with a ministering leader who did that as his full time job, and I believe he should be paid for that.

    I wasn't advocating anyone starving and freezing. Merely saying (as the question asked) that I will still do it without pay, if that were the case (and if I were called).

    The question is kind of loaded that way. But ... you do have a point that several are voicing an opinion that ministers should not be paid. I just wanted to clarify my position, since I had posted here. :)
     
  16. Lollerskates

    Lollerskates Junior Member

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    I wouldn't want a minister to starve, but I don't think they should get a salary. The tithe was for the minister precisely so that s/he would not starve - because the tithe is 10% of the increase given by God. Not mammon/dollars/money. This way, it didn't matter what happened to the economy, or inflation rates. The increase was given by God directly - like with crops, cattle, trees (for wood,) medicine, etc.

    Then, the people would use their trades to provide and present 10% of their increase given by God. This could be using the 10% to make a house, or a week's supply of meat pies for the family. The people were responsible for giving their tithe from God to the preacher in a presentable way (i.e. actually using/giving all of the 10%.) The preacher had no reason to make a salary because God was literally his boss, and made sure the preacher got what s/he and the family needed. It was humbling.

    Today, preachers make salaries, receive tax-exempt donations, and tithes in the form of money (in addition to some Church fees and even erections being drastically discounted or free.) Preachers should be able to live at least megarly (depending on if you are single or family.) But, preaching was humbling. Having 200,000 members because you preach feel-good and/or non-offensive messages, buying a 400 sqft house and three cars, a gulfstream airplane, and a boat is not what preaching is about. I have heard the excuse, "Well, I need to reach my flock, so I need a plane/boat/etc." Nah, that is oppulance; leave that to the people. The preacher is supposed to be a humbled, holy man that does not indulge in worldly pleasures no matter how minute.

    This is especially the case when many in modern church pues are struggling and suffering financially, and the preacher/minister has all of his toys and dream houses telling his flock, "God wants you to be rich" or something of the sort. Culturally, morally and spiritually. that should be unacceptable to everyone who sees it. There are modern ways of spreading your ministry across the world. Missions are a prime example - ministers don't need gulfstreams. Your flock should help you get there, and the minister can even encourage some of them to come. You don't need a gulfstream 6 of your own.

    So, nope I don't think a preacher should get a salary. Plus, it weeds out people who want to be a rockstar: "Will you spread the gospel because you can gain 10,000,000 people worldwide + money + trips... or will you spread the gospel because you want to and love God and people - no matter what is on your back or in your pocket?" What the real preachers should do is ask their a member of their flock to build them a house if they want it. I know several people who have said, should they be preachers, would be perfectly fine sleeping at the church (usually even small churches have a little room for the minister to sleep.) Your reward/salary should be being honored to be charged to be a minister for God to His children. Do you think prophets deserve a salary at all (per prophecy or rolling salary)? I'm serious.
     
  17. drstevej

    drstevej Light Attracts Bugs Staff Member Chaplain Supporter

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    Lollerskates, this is very much stereotype. Do you hang around only prosperity preachers?
     
  18. Lollerskates

    Lollerskates Junior Member

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    No, it was an example, and you know who I am talking about (or at least have an idea.) I am familiar with all types of preachers - fear mongers, 1-verse-a-sermen, overly charasmatic, temperate, psychotic, predator, verse by verse, racist, sexist, small town, big city, Catholic, Pentacost, non-denominational, etc. All categories have their own brand of extravagance and greed - even in poor churches. I used the hyperbolic example because more people will resonate with the [insert G5 flying preachers here] that categorically fit my description (all of it.)

    I haven't "hung around" any preachers in a while because of experience, context of teaching and mainly location. Oh, and sometimes stereotypes are true, though still offensive. However, I did not say all ministers - rich or poor - are flagrant. But, there should be no qualms about calling out the ones that are flagrant in their ministry. A great majority of the Church is not learning the Truth about God, His word, the history of His word, prophecy, and how to recognize and prepare for spiritual warfare. As I said before (maybe in another thread,) people have hard enough trouble with angel-human sexual interaction. Yet, Cain is not the son of Adam in his listed geneology.
     
  19. LegacyJB

    LegacyJB Soldier in God's Army

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    Elder Nelson spoke to my mission and explained how he got the call. It was right before he was going to perform surgery. He received a phone call and was asked to be in Salt Lake the next day. He gave up a lot to be an apostle.
     
  20. LegacyJB

    LegacyJB Soldier in God's Army

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    I recall something about "Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you." You don't call yourself. Going to college doesn't make you qualified to teach the gospel.
     
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