what I like about wof

[Si_monfaith]

Yes!One does not give to get. But the principle in Father's economy is that if you give you will get. There is such a thin line there that most get it wrong in their thinking. But the Holy Spirit will unblurr the line for those He indwells.

Yes!One does not give to get.

in Father's economy is that if you give you will get.

Both the above statements contradict each other.

 

[Si_monfaith]

You know,I'm going to agree with you with the understanding there are differences among us,yet we are one in Christ.
There are far more things we can agree on when you consider this World we are in.
I'm sure we can be friends and not let Satan divide us.
God Bless You.

May I know the differences?

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

Both the above statements contradict each other.

No they don't. Respectfully you just don't understand. Here it is in parable (mine)
I come to your house to repair a door, but, I don't charge you any money. I just do it as a loving gesture, nor expecting money. Someone sees my gift to you and decides "that is nice. I will compensate her." and pays me more than I would have charged.
Luke 6:38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

 

[hhodgson]

May I know the differences?

Giving to Get (or) Getting to Give...

Here's mine... Either way, I give to give. The age old question... should we give expecting (something) in return? I believe so... but, the FOCUS... should (always) be on the giving. Motive, heart attitude. These are keys that make all the difference. Didn't God give the world His only Son... Why? Because He (planned) it... with the expectation to (receive) many Sons. As for Jesus... no one took His life when He died on that cross. Did He not... give up His life (without sin) as the sacrificial blood offering that was required as "payment" for sin of the whole world... Why? To receive mankind.

Didn't both God/Jesus give to receive? Think about that for a moment! Yes, we focus on the giving but... What did God focus on? Giving to Get/Getting to Give/Give to Give..? As I believe... All three! It depends how you look at it.

We, as Christians... should (always) be happier to give to others, especially to those in need, (even more so) than our receiving to meet our OWN needs. We don't need to give... to receive. The receiving is (already) God's provisional promise to us through His Word. Do you know how giving makes us more blessed than getting? We can get so much happiness when we see how God is glorified when we see Him bless others through our giving. We don't need to wait for the receiving, just "believe" ...and it will happen (Luke 6:38) "Give, and it shall be given unto you..."

Expecting something to happen doesn't have to mean someone is being greedy. Or that it's the motive for doing something. It's just believing what God said and doing what He said. Why must we assume greediness or selfishness in others when they do that? In the New Testament, Jesus said to His disciples, "... freely you have received, freely give" (Matthew 10:8). This is the biblical pattern. This is really what Christianity is all about. You receive, and then you give.

Another thought to think about. (Acts 20:35) ...It's more Blessed to give than receive..." ( Absolutely, no doubt about it!)

Consider this... You can't give without initially receiving... and you can't receive without giving. They work hand in hand but it's more Blessed to give than to receive.

Someone wrote... The principle of giving is an amazing ladder to SUCCESS. (Absolutely, "however"... this only works when you already have something to give.

Someone also wrote... Both giving and receiving are two sides of the same coin. Giving is a process that (will not work) without someone’s ability to receive. Those who give are also receivers for there is nothing one has that he/she has not (already) received. Giving is a sign of humility and a willingness to promote the highest good and interest of others. When we give, we imitate God Himself, who is not only the giver... but the originator of it.

Check this out. God even supplies the seed.

2 Corinthians 9:10 NET
"Now God who provides seed for the sower and bread for food will provide and multiply your supply of seed and will cause the harvest of your righteousness to grow."

Luke 8:11
"Now the parable means this: The seed is the Word of God.​

 

[now faith]

May I know the differences?

Well ok I will try.
Nothing in the old testament has been made void.
The Law or law of Moses Christ redeemed us from.
No person could keep the law,if you broke one jot of it you were guilty of breaking the whole Law.
Since breaking the law was sin the law required death.
The New Testament calls it the law of sin and death.
Here is the only change in the New Testament from the Old.
The New is a better covenant for our sins ,it is eternal and would only happen one time.

Hebrews 9: 13. For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: 14. How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? 15. And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressioer the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. 16. For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17. For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth. 18. Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood. 19. For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people, 20. Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you. 21. Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry. 22. And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission. 23. It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
Now when I mentioned there are common things in old and new testament, such as murder , rape stealing, these and other things are a abomination to God.
We are without excuse in knowing right from wrong.

Romans 2: 12. For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; 13. (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. 14. For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15. Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another -

The Law is written in our hearts to know right from wrong.



Hebrews 10: 15. Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, 16. This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; 17. And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. 18. Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. 19. Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20. By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

God does not change ,its his mercy that Christ was the lamb slain from the foundation of the world. The Old Testament is a for shadow of Christ all the way through.
There is much more about God in the old testament than the law of Moses.
Gods will for mankind is found in the Old Testament.

Hebrews 10: 15. Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, 16. This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; 17. And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. 18. Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. 19. Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20. By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

So now we know that Christ redeemed us from the law ,
We also understand He did not Change the will of God.
Tithing is the will of God , it was established with Abraham
And with Jacob,long before the law of Moses.

 

[now faith]

Si_monfaith her are examples of tithing in the New Testament.

Philippians 4: 14. Notwithstanding ye have well done, that ye did communicate with my affliction. 15. Now ye Philippians know also, that in the beginning of the gospel, when I departed from Macedonia, no church communicated with me as concerning giving and receiving, but ye only. 16. For even in Thessalonica ye sent once and again unto my necessity. 17. Not because I desire a gift: but I desire fruit that may abound to your account. 18. But I have all, and abound: I am full, having received of Epaphroditus the things which were sent from you, an odour of a sweet smell, a sacrifice acceptable, wellpleasing to God. 19. But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.

Here we find giving in the temple,and the widow gave far more than a tenth.
Mark 12: 41. And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much. 42. And there certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing. 43. And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury: 44. For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living.

As well in acts I mentioned before people sold what they had and gave it to the Ministery.

 

[Si_monfaith]

No they don't. Respectfully you just don't understand. Here it is in parable (mine)
I come to your house to repair a door, but, I don't charge you any money. I just do it as a loving gesture, nor expecting money. Someone sees my gift to you and decides "that is nice. I will compensate her." and pays me more than I would have charged.
Luke 6:38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

You have selected an example of man's response and projected it on to God's nature.

God does not compensate in that manner. If it is His will to compensate you based on your work of love, you will get lesser than if He wills to compensate you based on the work of love of His Son on the cross.

Hope you would suggest this truth to the ministries which claim, "Your compensation depends on your giving".

 

[Si_monfaith]

Giving to Get (or) Getting to Give...

Here's mine... Either way, I give to give. The age old question... should we give expecting (something) in return? I believe so... but, the FOCUS... should (always) be on the giving. Motive, heart attitude. These are keys that make all the difference. Didn't God give the world His only Son... Why? Because He (planned) it... with the expectation to (receive) many Sons. As for Jesus... no one took His life when He died on that cross. Did He not... give up His life (without sin) as the sacrificial blood offering that was required as "payment" for sin of the whole world... Why? To receive mankind.

Didn't both God/Jesus give to receive? Think about that for a moment! Yes, we focus on the giving but... What did God focus on? Giving to Get/Getting to Give/Give to Give..? As I believe... All three! It depends how you look at it.

We, as Christians... should (always) be happier to give to others, especially to those in need, (even more so) than our receiving to meet our OWN needs. We don't need to give... to receive. The receiving is (already) God's provisional promise to us through His Word. Do you know how giving makes us more blessed than getting? We can get so much happiness when we see how God is glorified when we see Him bless others through our giving. We don't need to wait for the receiving, just "believe" ...and it will happen (Luke 6:38) "Give, and it shall be given unto you..."

Expecting something to happen doesn't have to mean someone is being greedy. Or that it's the motive for doing something. It's just believing what God said and doing what He said. Why must we assume greediness or selfishness in others when they do that? In the New Testament, Jesus said to His disciples, "... freely you have received, freely give" (Matthew 10:8). This is the biblical pattern. This is really what Christianity is all about. You receive, and then you give.

Another thought to think about. (Acts 20:35) ...It's more Blessed to give than receive..." ( Absolutely, no doubt about it!)

Consider this... You can't give without initially receiving... and you can't receive without giving. They work hand in hand but it's more Blessed to give than to receive.

Someone wrote... The principle of giving is an amazing ladder to SUCCESS. (Absolutely, "however"... this only works when you already have something to give.

Someone also wrote... Both giving and receiving are two sides of the same coin. Giving is a process that (will not work) without someone’s ability to receive. Those who give are also receivers for there is nothing one has that he/she has not (already) received. Giving is a sign of humility and a willingness to promote the highest good and interest of others. When we give, we imitate God Himself, who is not only the giver... but the originator of it.

Check this out. God even supplies the seed.

2 Corinthians 9:10 NET
"Now God who provides seed for the sower and bread for food will provide and multiply your supply of seed and will cause the harvest of your righteousness to grow."

Luke 8:11
"Now the parable means this: The seed is the Word of God.​

Either way, I give to give

1 Corinthians 15:10 says it is not you but His grace which gives. So the "I give" could be reconsidered.

Didn't God give the world His only Son... Why? Because He (planned) it... with the expectation to (receive) many Sons.

God can expect to receive a repayment and thus trust in His work of love which He did through His Son. As He is God.

But man is exhorted to trust only in God and His works of love to be blessed with abundance and not trust and thus focus in their works of love.

IMO, the ministries also have yet not understood the above.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

You have selected an example of man's response and projected it on to God's nature.

God does not compensate in that manner. If it is His will to compensate you based on your work of love, you will get lesser than if He wills to compensate you based on the work of love of His Son on the cross.

Hope you would suggest this truth to the ministries which claim, "Your compensation depends on your giving".

You are right. I did, maybe poorly,use an example that I thought would help you to understand the verse I posted. I guess I failed at that. So you tell me what this verse of instruction says to you.

Luke 6:38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

I will look forward to your explanation.

 

[Si_monfaith]

Well ok I will try.
Nothing in the old testament has been made void.
The Law or law of Moses Christ redeemed us from.
No person could keep the law,if you broke one jot of it you were guilty of breaking the whole Law.
Since breaking the law was sin the law required death.
The New Testament calls it the law of sin and death.
Here is the only change in the New Testament from the Old.
The New is a better covenant for our sins ,it is eternal and would only happen one time.

Hebrews 9: 13. For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: 14. How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? 15. And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressioer the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. 16. For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17. For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth. 18. Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood. 19. For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people, 20. Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you. 21. Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry. 22. And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission. 23. It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
Now when I mentioned there are common things in old and new testament, such as murder , rape stealing, these and other things are a abomination to God.
We are without excuse in knowing right from wrong.

Romans 2: 12. For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; 13. (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. 14. For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15. Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another -

The Law is written in our hearts to know right from wrong.



Hebrews 10: 15. Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, 16. This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; 17. And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. 18. Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. 19. Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20. By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

God does not change ,its his mercy that Christ was the lamb slain from the foundation of the world. The Old Testament is a for shadow of Christ all the way through.
There is much more about God in the old testament than the law of Moses.
Gods will for mankind is found in the Old Testament.

Hebrews 10: 15. Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, 16. This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; 17. And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. 18. Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. 19. Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20. By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

So now we know that Christ redeemed us from the law ,
We also understand He did not Change the will of God.
Tithing is the will of God , it was established with Abraham
And with Jacob,long before the law of Moses.

The Law is written in our hearts to know right from wrong.

The principle of grace which is unconditional love is written in our hearts not the law of moses which is conditional love.

Tithing is the will of God , it was established with Abraham
And with Jacob,long before the law of Moses.

This is an inference or conclusion with no biblical premises.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

@Si_monfaith , reading your posts is very confusing.Methinks you may be one of those people who disagree for the sake of being disagreeable making circular arguments.

 

[now faith]

The principle of grace which is unconditional love is written in our hearts not the law of moses which is conditional love.

?

This is an inference or conclusion with no biblical premises.

Seriously the text has no biblical premises?
This is exactly why I tried not to banter,you refuse the schripture that clearly states that we are to bring in our tithe.
What premises do you use to pay the bills at your local Church?
What does your Church do for missions?
Do you pay your Pastor?

 

[now faith]

1 Corinthians 15:10 says it is not you but His grace which gives. So the "I give" could be reconsidered.



God can expect to receive a repayment and thus trust in His work of love which He did through His Son. As He is God.

But man is exhorted to trust only in God and His works of love to be blessed with abundance and not trust and thus focus in their works of love.

IMO, the ministries also have yet not understood the above.

Oh so you trust God to bless you but you don't Bless others?
It's not about what ministeries think ,it's about what God's word says.

 

[now faith]

The principle of grace which is unconditional love is written in our hearts not the law of moses which is conditional love.

Well that's not what the ,2 passages say,you have interpted
God's word of your. Own theology.


This is an inference or conclusion with no biblical premises.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

Oh so you trust God to bless you but you don't Bless others?
It's not about what ministeries think ,it's about what God's word says.

Amen!

 

[now faith]

.
Schripture please ?

 

[Si_monfaith]

You are right. I did, maybe poorly,use an example that I thought would help you to understand the verse I posted. I guess I failed at that. So you tell me what this verse of instruction says to you.

Luke 6:38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

I will look forward to your explanation.

Luke 6:38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

I will look forward to your explanation.

I think I already replied to the verse you quoted above as man's response to man's giving. Jesus is talking about how humans respond and not about God's response as His hearers weren't yet given sufficient revelation about Him and His Father, "John 16: 12: I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now".

 

[Si_monfaith]

Oh so you trust God to bless you but you don't Bless others?
It's not about what ministeries think ,it's about what God's word says.

Giving based on trust in God's works through His Son is different from giving based on trusting human works.

Just because someone trusts in God's works through His Son, it does not mean that that person doesn't give.

Imo, some ministries which fear people might not give, teach people to trust in their giving to persuade them to give.

 

[Si_monfaith]

Seriously the text has no biblical premises?
This is exactly why I tried not to banter,you refuse the schripture that clearly states that we are to bring in our tithe.
What premises do you use to pay the bills at your local Church?
What does your Church do for missions?
Do you pay your Pastor?

The issue is not about giving but giving by trusting in the works of giving. The latter has no scriptural basis under the new covenant.

 

[hhodgson]

1 Corinthians 15:10 says it is not you but His grace which gives. So the "I give" could be reconsidered.

Yes, and... Grace is "God's part" which is freely given to us and (only) received, by... "our part" of applying faith (in Him) as being a positive response to what He has already provided by grace. I give to give again and God constantly gives back so I continue to give again. It is grace through faith that work together, and they must be in balance.

God can expect to receive a repayment and thus trust in His work of love which He did through His Son. As He is God. But man is exhorted to trust only in God and His works of love to be blessed with abundance and not trust and thus focus in their works of love.

Absolutely... "and as He is, so are we ---> (in Him)."

IMO, the ministries also have yet not understood the above.

Your opinion on "the ministries" is very broad brushed (especially)... "for such a time as this." We ALL should be wearing signs that say, "He's still working on me." I do... and I have heard many of these ministries say exactly that, and I would hope you have also.

Your posts are appreciated Si_monfaith. Thought provoking, Yes!... for we ALL are to... "Study to show thyself approved" unto God, a workman who needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth" (2 Timothy 2:15).