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What Holidays May I celebrate this upcoming Season?

Discussion in 'Messianic Judaism' started by teresa, Sep 5, 2017.

  1. gadar perets

    gadar perets Messianic Hebrew

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    Are you saying your church does not use the first Sunday after the first full moon occurring on or after the vernal equinox? If so, how do you calculate it?
     
  2. Yeshua HaDerekh

    Yeshua HaDerekh Men can dream of truth, but then cant live with it

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    the first day of the week is Sunday...
     
  3. Yeshua HaDerekh

    Yeshua HaDerekh Men can dream of truth, but then cant live with it

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    We use a different calendar (Julian Metonic from 45 BC) while the West uses the Gregorian (made in the 1500s). Sometimes the west celebrates "easter" prior to Passover.
     
  4. Zaan

    Zaan New Member

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    Oh, I know and definitely agree there! I wouldn't leave Yeshua out of the picture at all.
     
  5. Yeshua HaDerekh

    Yeshua HaDerekh Men can dream of truth, but then cant live with it

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    Are you serious?!?!? SMH...
    EVERY Gospel account says they do!
    John 20:1
    Mark 16:2
    Luke 24:1
     
  6. Yeshua HaDerekh

    Yeshua HaDerekh Men can dream of truth, but then cant live with it

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    I'm out guys! Shabbat Shalom! See ya on Sunday!
     
  7. CherubRam

    CherubRam Well-Known Member

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    Yes, the first day of the week is Sunday.

    The word DAY

    N.I.V. Exhaustive Concordance. Copyright, 1990.



    NIG = Not In Greek.



    The word “DAY” does not occur in these scriptures.

    Matthew 28:1. NIG

    Mark 16:2. NIG

    Luke 24:1. Reference number 1651. Greek word: HEIS / “First.”

    John 20:1. NIG





    Each of these verses should say: “first of the week.” Meaning, first part of the week.

    Matthew 28:1. NIV
    28 After the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb.



    Mark 16:2. NIV
    2 Very early on the first day of the week, just after sunrise, they were on their way to the tomb



    Luke 24:1. NIV

    24 On the first day of the week, very early in the morning, the women took the spices they had prepared and went to the tomb.



    John 20:1. NIV
    20 Early on the first day of the week, while it was still dark, Mary Magdalene went to the tomb and saw that the stone had been removed from the entrance.

     
  8. gadar perets

    gadar perets Messianic Hebrew

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    So, you say "day" is added unjustly and then you imply it means, "on the first part of the week"? Oy Vey! Even without the word day, "the first of the week" is Sunday.
     
  9. Zaan

    Zaan New Member

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    It's true that Pascha and Easter are not the same holiday at all.
    Pascha is Passover and Easter a much older and separate pagan festival that was celebrated through many different cultures.

    I think the confusion here is because there was an attempt to merge the two festivals, to bring pagans and followers of Christ together. It's not the question of are they different or not, it is a historical fact that they are and that this happened. The question here is whether it was right or wrong to do it.

    Biblically speaking we know that you can't merge pagan worship with that of YHWH. So if someone is celebrating on the same day as a pagan festival and following any of the pagan customs/practices then they are partaking in a festival that He told us not to be involved in, a festival that provokes Him to anger and themselves to confusion.

    The word Easter appears only once in the King James Version of the Bible (and not at all in most others). In that one place the King James translators mistranslated the Greek word for Passover as “Easter."

    Acts 12:4: “And when he [King Herod Agrippa I] had apprehended him [the apostle Peter], he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people.”

    The Greek word translated Easter here is pascha, properly translated everywhere else in the Bible as “Passover.”

    Nowhere in the Bible, and not in the book of Acts either which covers several decades of the history of the early Church, nor in any of the epistles of the New Testament, do we find the apostles or the early Christians celebrating anything that resembled the celebration of Easter.

    Vine’s Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words, in its entry “Easter,” states:

    “The term ‘Easter’ is not of Christian origin. It is another form of Astarte, one of the titles of the Chaldean goddess, the queen of heaven. The festival of Pasch [Passover] held by Christians in post-apostolic times was a continuation of the Jewish feast … From this Pasch the pagan festival of ‘Easter’ was quite distinct and was introduced into the apostate Western religion, as part of the attempt to adapt pagan festivals to Christianity” (W.E. Vine, 1985).

    Astarte, the Chaldean (Babylonian) spring goddess, also titled as “The Queen of Heaven" is the goddess mentioned by that title in the Jeremiah 7:18, Jeremiah 44:17-19; Jeremiah 44:25 and is also mentioned in 1 Kings 11:5; 1 Kings 5:33 and 2 Kings 23:13 in the Hebrew form of her name, Ashtoreth.
    She was adopted with her festivals throughout the years into other cultures, her name adapted into the different languages.
    Most people know the Romans adopted gods from the Greeks for their Pantheon but it was also from many others as well.
    Her other names are Semiramis, Ishtar, Eostre and Ostern. The English "Easter" comes from the Germanic version. The only time "Easter" is mentioned in the Bible is when YHWH was condemning the practice of worshiping her.

    “There is no indication of the observance of the Easter festival in the New Testament, or in the writings of the apostolic Fathers . . . The first Christians continued to observe the Jewish festivals, though in a new spirit, as commemorations of events which those festivals foreshadowed . . ."
    (The Encyclopaedia Britannica)

    "Neither the apostles, therefore, nor the Gospels, have any- where imposed... Easter... The Savior and His apostles have enjoined us by no law to keep this feast [Easter]... And that the observance originated not by legislation [of the apostles], but as a custom the facts themselves indicate”
    (fourth century scholar, Socrates Scholasticus, Ecclesiastical History, Book V, chapter 22).

    "The Apostle Paul confirms he maintained the customary observance of Passover, as was given to him by Christ Himself, when he said, “For I received of the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed [not Easter Sunday!] took bread” (1 Corinthians 11:23). Keep in mind Jesus Christ was betrayed during the night of Nisan 14 (Luke 22:15-22), which was considered the evening portion of the day of Passover (Exodus 12:6-13). Remember, God begins a new day at evening, commencing at sunset (Genesis 1:5). With this established fact and connection in mind, how then was it changed from the 14th of Nisan (Passover) to the Sunday following the first full moon after the vernal equinox, and then assigned the pagan name Easter (Ishtarte)? Unquestionably, this is no minor change from the original observance that Jesus Christ exemplified (especially since people died refusing to obey this change).

    “A final settlement of the dispute [over whether and when to keep Easter or Passover] was one among the other reasons which led [the Roman emperor] Constantine to summon the council of Nicaea in 325 . . . The decision of the council was unanimous that Easter was to be kept on Sunday, and on the same Sunday throughout the world, and ‘that none should hereafter follow the blindness of the Jews’ ” (The Encyclopaedia Britannica)

    Those who "followed the blindness of the Jews" and didn't accept the pagan practices were persecuted and put to death.

    The ancient religious practices and fertility symbols associated with Easter's cult existed looong before Yeshua lived as a man.
    The egg is a common pagan symbol of fertility and is used as a major symbol in Easter.
    Semiramis/Ishtar was supposed to have resurrected in the spring, coming from the moon in a large egg.

    "The Saternalia originated as the birth date of Tammuz, the bastard son of Semiramis, the widow of Nimrod of biblical evil fame. After Shem cut Nimrod in pieces, Babylonian legend insists that he ascended into the heavens and became the sun god himself. The rays of the sun implanted the seed into his widow and presto! The son of the sun god was miraculously conceived, as was the adoration of the mother and child evident in every culture on the earth. On the winter solstice Tammuz was born; as were most of the traditions surrounding “the child-mass” season. Tammuz, the reincarnation of the sun god – Nimrod, was killed in a hunting accident when he was gored to death by a wild boar in his 40th year. Those who worshipped the son of “the sun god” then set aside 40 days of weeping for Tammuz. They celebrated “Lent” one day for each year of his incarnation - in which they would deny a worldly pleasure for his pleasure in the afterworld (see Ezekiel 8).

    After many years, his mother Semiramis died. The gods looked favorably on “the mother of god” and sent her back to earth as the spring fertility goddess – always depicted as an exaggeratedly endowed bare breasted queen of sexual desire. Semiramis, the queen of heaven, was “born again” as the goddess Easter (Ashtarte) as she emerged from a giant egg that landed in the Euphrates river at sunrise on the “sun” day after the vernal equinox. To proclaim her divine authority, she changed a bird into an egg laying rabbit. As the cult developed, the priests of Easter would impregnate young virgins on the altar of the goddess of fertility at sunrise on Easter Sunday. A year later the priests of Easter would sacrifice those three-month-old babies on the altar at the front of the Sanctuary and dye Easter eggs in the blood of the sacrificed infants.

    The forty days of Lent - or weeping for Tammuz, starts the Easter fertility season. The festivities culminate on Easter Sunday, when the priests of Easter slaughtered the “wild boar that killed Tammuz” and the entire congregation would eat the “ham” on Easter Sunday. (John Michael Rood, The Mystery of Iniquity, Chapter 8)

    Remember the weeping of Tammuz I mentioned before in
    Ezekiel 8:13,14.

    Rabbits were also used as symbols of the fertility goddess, and that is why we have the Easter bunny in the role of giving out the eggs.

    None of these things have anything to do with Passover! And Passover should not be associated with it as YHWH said it is an abomination.

    " Assuredly, we must first understand the contention between the Western congregations led by Rome and the Eastern Asiatic congregations. This debate intensified during the second century, and is historically known as the Quartodeciman controversy.

    “Quartodeciman” is simply a Latin term indicating fourteenth. What the ecclesiastical record of the second century reveals is that there was a controversy over the fourteenth— specifically, it concerned the change from the fourteenth of Nisan (Passover) to Easter, with all of its pagan connections, associations, and typologies of fertility and fecundity. This was unequivocally contested and rejected by the congregations of the Asiatic East. It came to a head when Polycarp, the bishop of Smyrna (who was personally taught by John the apostle), faced off with Anicetus, the preeminent bishop of Rome, in about 95 A.D.

    Edited: All my typos/keyboard malfunctions (my bad!)
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2017
  10. Ignatius the Kiwi

    Ignatius the Kiwi Newbie

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    Again, where is the primary evidence for this Easter/Ishtar connection? I have already pointed out that the feast which in the world is known everywhere else as Pascha was called that first by the earliest Christians. Only English speakers call the feast Easter.

    Here is what I like to see. Primary sources describing a feast called Easter in the second century. Can anyone provide such evidence? Also you realise the early Greek speakers you are referring to called it pasha and not Easter? Can you explain why? Because without the etymological connection of Easter (which is tenuous) you have no case for a pagan origins of Pascha (easter).

    The encyclopedias you have quoted seem to be mistaken in their conclusions about the feast itself which is Christian. Namely they make the same mistake fundamentalists and Messianic make when they base their conclusion solely on the English term for the feast of the resurrection Easter.

    Read some of the earliest descriptions of the celebration like in Melito of Sardis' Peri Pascha. In that work we see that the book of Exodus was being read but we also see a deeply Christological reading of that text, a reorientation from the Old Passover which focused on a mere lamb to the new Passover which focuses on a New Lamb. The Christological emphasis and reading of the old Passover best explains where the Christian Pascha comes from, not from any pagan festival (which cannot be demonstrated to have existed from any primary source only loose etymological assumptions about the English name).

    In my Church the feast is called Pascha because that is what it is known in the Greek. Now is the feast derived from pagan practices or does it represent an Christological re-orientation of the old one? If you insist on making this connection, please show me where ancient pagans (from their sources, so primary sources) practised a feast called Easter on the Sunday following the vernal Equinox or the Sunday following the Jewish Passover? Why is it called Pascha by most of the Christian world?
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2017
  11. CherubRam

    CherubRam Well-Known Member

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    What is the week end? What is the week day? What is the first of the week, and what is the middle of the week, and what is the last of the week?

    An eight-day week was used in Ancient Rome and possibly in the pre-Christian Celtic calendar. Traces of a nine-day week are found in Baltic languages and in Welsh. The ancient Chinese calendar had a ten-day week, as did the ancient Egyptian calendar (and, incidentally, the French Republican Calendar, dividing its 30-day months into thirds).
     
  12. pat34lee

    pat34lee Messianic

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    You don't have to go any further than your bible.

    Pascha was translated as Passover every time it was used
    except for one. In Acts 12:4, it is translated as Easter.
    https://www.chick.com/reading/books/158/158_02.asp

    And Easter predated Christianity by many years.
    The Ancient Pagan Origins of Easter
     
  13. Ignatius the Kiwi

    Ignatius the Kiwi Newbie

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    The fact that the bible refers to the feast as Pascha is irrelevant and nor am I saying that the Christian Pascha is the same as the one practised by the Old covenant or the Apostles in the Apostolic era. The link you have provided does not provide any primary sources which demonstrate that the Christian pascha has pagan origins, it simply assumes the argument (yet to be proven) that Easter is derived from a Pagan feast. I've been over this several times but I don't mind repeating it once more, the early Church didn't call the feast of the resurrection Easter, but instead called it Pascha. It was a movable feast day whose day related to the Jewish Passover or the 14th of Nisan before having a formalised method set at the council of Nicaea. So the Easter/Ishtar/Eostre connection falls apart on the basis that we see in the second century Christian celebration of a feast called Pascha and that predates the earliest use of the term in English and German regions calling it Easter or Oster (5th or 6th century if I recall). The term Easter is an exception to the name of the feast rather than the rule, since as I have mentioned previously and yet few are taking seriously it is called Pascha or resurrection day every where else.

    So the argument falls apart. To assume and Ishtar Easter connection is to ignore that fact that you have entire continent of Christians between Babylon and England/Germany that do not call it by the name Easter. How do we reach the conclusion that a feast magically was inspired by a dead society and dead religious cult while skipping all the areas in between (Greece, Italy, Spain, France, Poland and etc? Why were the earliest mentions of the feast (Melito, Ireneaus, Eusebius and etc) calling it Pascha and not Easter? The entire case that Easter (pascha) is pagan is based on the English term for the feast and not the historical liturgical origins. No one here has provided any evidence for an ancient pagan celebration called Pascha, let alone have they produced evidence of an ancient celebration called Easter which can be shown to predate the earliest Christian celebrations of the feast itself.

    So if the origins of Pascha are not Pagan, what are they? Are they as I suggested before a Christian version of the Old Passover with those elements of the old directed more squarely at Christ rather than just a literal observation of the Torah? What makes more sense? That early Christians who despised their pagan roots willingly adopting a pagan festival which somehow revolved around the Jewish Passover and even shared the same name, or Christians adapting the Jewish celebration which they inherited from those before them to their own needs?

    Also Jack Chick is hardly someone I would use as a reference. A real reference is something like this:

    Passover and Easter

    An excellent book covering the development of the Christian and Jewish passovers and how each community adapted to the times and circumstances they encountered (such as how Jews had to rethink their Pascha celebrations after the destruction of the second temple).
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2017
  14. gadar perets

    gadar perets Messianic Hebrew

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    It sounds to me that you are saying the "early church" actually kept what Torah keepers call Passover today (referring to the actual feast of seven days). If so, when did the "early church" begin calling resurrection Sunday "Easter"?

    If you are keeping that feast for seven days and those days are not fixed on the same days each year, but are based on certain other variables including whether or not barley is available for the wave sheaf offering, then I have no problem with that. I have a big problem with those who fix Easter Sunday to the same day every year.

    Also, all the believers that I know who keep Torah today do not just keep "a literal observation of the Torah". Messiah Yeshua is the primary subject of our observance. Yet, we do not neglect to celebrate the great deliverance YHWH provided for Israel in Egypt, without which we would not be celebrating our own deliverance today. We don't just emphasize Yeshua, but we show by comparison of the shadow to the reality how Yeshua fulfills every aspect of Pascha/Passover.
     
  15. Ignatius the Kiwi

    Ignatius the Kiwi Newbie

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    I would argue that Christological elements began to enter the Paschal meal in the first century though it probably remained closer to the Passover of the Jews at that time (with the only distinction being that Christ would have been at the centre). I don't believe as I assume many here would believe, that the Apostles liturgy was not shaped by Christ to a significant degree, nor do i believe they mandated Judaism to believers. The shape of Pascha we see in Christendom today, it being almost solely focused on Christ was gradual. We see in Melito of Sardis a Liturgy a sermon on the Torah, which means that during the Pascha of Melito the Torah was still being read as the primary text, but we also see a shift in the homily away from a strict literal reading and into a deep Christological reading. Melito doesn't see the application of the Old law as the primary meaning, but a deep Christological reading as the significance of the Passover.

    Resurrection Sunday began fairly early, the second century specifically in the western Church of Rome. The exact date for when this practice began is impossible to determine though the Roman Church was convinced their practice was Apostolic (and i have no reason to doubt Pope Anicetus in that regard). Eusebius records the dispute between Pope Anicetus and the Eastern Church who observed Pascha on the 14th of Nissan each year. Iraneaus mediated the dispute and both agreed to respect each other's practice.

    In regards to your last post, i'm glad you put Christ before all things.
     
  16. visionary

    visionary Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I. Supporter

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    The "up coming season" is the fall feasts... keep them... I wish Messianic congregations presented to their communities the true story of Yeshua's birth this time of the year... Birth of Yeshua (Jesus) during Succoth
     
  17. AbbaLove

    AbbaLove Circumcision of the Heart is Messianic

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    Isn't it more likely that Messiah Yeshua was born during the Festival of Trumpets (Yom Teruah); then Messiah Yeshua became an Atonement (Yom Kippur) for the sins of fallen mankind; and subsequently Messiah Yeshua Tabernacling (Sukkot) with the first 120 Jewish Believers (Acts 2:1-4) via the indwelling presence of Ruach HaKodesh (Sukkot) . Would it be improper for a Messianic congregation(s) to present the probability that the fall Festivals had already become a reality [in meaningful measure] nearly 2,000 years ago?

    1 Corinthians 6:19-20 (CJB and AMPC)
    19 Or don’t you know that your body is a temple for the Ruach HaKodesh who lives inside you, whom you received from God? The fact is, you don’t belong to yourselves; [part
    20 for you were bought at a price. So use your bodies to glorify God. (CJB)
    and​
    19 Do you not know that your body is the temple (the very sanctuary) of the Holy Spirit Who lives within you, Whom you have received [as a Gift] from God? You are not your own,
    20 You were bought with a price [purchased with a preciousness and paid for, made His own]. So then, honor God and bring glory to Him in your body. (AMPC)
    Exodus 23:14, 17
    14 Three times a year you are to celebrate a Festival for me.
    17 Three times a year all your males shall appear in the presence of the L-rd G-D.​
    • Festival of Pesach / Unleavened Bread
    • Festival of Shavuot
    • Festival of Sukkot
    Jewish Males were not required to be in Jerusalem during the Festival of Trumpets, but they were required to be in Jerusalem during the Festival of Sukkot. Assuming Yeshua was born on the day Kings are coronated (Festival of Trumpets) as declared by the signs in the Heavens in accordance with Rev. 12, then the initial time of Mary's time of purification would have ended 7 days later and 2 days before the Day of Atonement, they would have been able to have baby Yeshua circumcised. Mary still had 33 days of purification remaining (Lev. 12:4). Only males were required to be in Jerusalem on the Festival of Sukkot.

    The final/great Trumpet (Shofar) blast by the L-ord Himself ...

    1 Corinthians 15:51-52 (CJB)
    51 Look, I will tell you a secret — not all of us will die! But we will all be changed!
    52 It will take but a moment, the blink of an eye, at the final shofar. For the shofar will sound, and the dead will be raised to live forever, and we too will be changed.​
     
  18. pat34lee

    pat34lee Messianic

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    Starting over with this part, then. Herod was a Jew by birth,
    but a practicing pagan, as were all good Romans. Not only
    was Acts 12:4 at the wrong time for Pascha to be Passover,
    Herod and his pagan friends would not have been celebrating
    Passover in any case. Why was pascha used then? Most likely
    an early church error or textual change made by those who
    didn't know the difference.

    As for today's Easter being pagan, just look up the list of
    traditions bound to it.
     
  19. Ignatius the Kiwi

    Ignatius the Kiwi Newbie

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    Traditions such as what?

    Also, how do you determine Herod didn't know what day the Passover was to be celebrated? I think you underestimate the syncretism that could exist even back then. Herod being a King of Israel with a majority Jewish population would not be forbidden from celebrating the passover by Gentile custom. It makes sense that too appear faithful (though he wasn't) he would celebrate with the people in their major feasts despite his tendencies towards Hellenisation.
     
  20. Yeshua HaDerekh

    Yeshua HaDerekh Men can dream of truth, but then cant live with it

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    The first of the week IS Sunday
     
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