What holidays do you think should be forbidden for a Christian to participate in?

[Root of Jesse]

I have a special hatred for legalism. It burns me up inside when I hear people talking about the need to maintain salvation through works. Such people not only end up in hell, but take people with them. I hate it and will not tolerate those who teach it.

I haven't found that costume yet.

I'm wondering what people you hear saying they need to maintain their salvation through works? To me, it's the other way around. Our salvation inspires us to do good works.

 

[SeventyOne]

I believe the Pharisees are a good example of legalism. It was all primarily about law with no real mercy or grace (See the Parable of the Tax Collector and the Pharisee). They tried to make it all about Law but they themselves did not keep the most important part of God's laws (Like love, faith, justice, and mercy - See Matthew 23:23, Luke 11:42). Paul condemned this false way of thinking. Paul also condemned the following of the ceremonial laws for salvation within the Old Written Law like circumcision, etc. For Paul said, "what profit is there in circumcision?" (Romans 3:1). Paul said, "if you seek to be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing." (Galatians 5:2). So Paul condemned one trying to justify themselves by Law alone without God's grace (Jesus) and Paul condemned the following of the ceremonial laws within the Old Law. Paul did not condemn the following of God's eternal moral laws that carried on into the New Testament that ARE also necessary for salvation (Which is in harmony with God's saving grace). Note: God's moral laws would be things like: Do not murder, do not covet, do not steal, do not commit adultery, etc. (Which is the same as loving your neighbor).

Paul says if any man speaks contrary to the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine of Godliness, he is proud and he knows nothing (1 Timothy 6:3-4). So when a person says they condemn legalism, are they saying they condemn the idea that we are not saved in any way shape or form by keeping God's laws? No doubt you will say .... "yes." But if I say "Does that means you can be an ax murdering rapist and still be saved because you have a belief on Jesus?" You would of course say.... "no." (Even though some Eternal Security proponents would say... "yes"). So this means that you believe works or holiness is necessary for salvation but you are caught in a feed back loop or a circle of contradiction that you cannot explain properly. For nobody can be a practicing ax murdering rapist and believe in Jesus and be saved.

But if keeping God's laws that tell you to not be an ax murdering rapist as a part of God's salvation, then by all means, you are free to get mad for keeping those laws as a part of God's saving grace.

Seeking to do what's right in order to please God out of the desire of simply wanting to please God is one thing, while seeking to do what's right to keep God appeased to the point where He won't claim His finished work is no longer sufficient and throws such a person away, is something completely different. A distinction you haven't come to grips with as of yet it seems.

You keep going back to the ax murderer scenario, as if you think it's valid. Jesus said those who are angry at their brother without cause faces the same judgment of that murderer. Why don't you ever mention that, or do you think it's easier for His grace to cover the sin of anger over the sin of murder? What limitations are you imposing on His finished work?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Meanwhile, after little Jimmy gets his Easter basket, Mommy and Daddy says it's time for churchservices and then the CHURCH'S Easter Egg Hunt.

*Gasp*, the church is committing a sin and they don't even know it! [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], they don't even realize it *eye roll*. Clergy apparently supports it, too. But who are you to say they are in the wrong when an entire community partakes in something that's not a sin? Oh, apparently some stranger on an Internet message board is going to say otherwise.

But hey, at least they are making up for it by being regular church attendees and doing all other things Christian. ;-)

The secular version of Easter is not so obviously false like Halloween and the secular version of Christmas (Although I would strongly tell Christians not to partake in such a day). I remember receiving Easter baskets when I was a kid and that the Easter bunny left them (But I knew it was my Mom that bought these things). I remember going on Easter egg hunts at my Grandma's house. They were happy memories of my childhood, but I wished that we celebrated Christ's resurrection instead. The problem in these secular holidays is that if taken seriously, it promotes parents lying to their children. Oh, Santa brought these gifts. There are some kids who were actually really fooled for a time by their parents in the past. Today, it is a little tougher with kids having access to the internet, etc. But in the past, kids were deceived. The point is that we are to lead every thought captive to Jesus Christ (2 Corinthians 10:5). I am not sure how exactly one can do that if they are thinking of some mythological man with a beard whose name can be spelled as Satan if you move the letter "no" to the end. Not sure how one can do this with a mythological fertility creature like the Easter bunny, as well. But Halloween. Come on. I shoud not have to tell people that it glorifies darkness and evil and should have no part in a Christian who is seeking to pick up their cross, and deny themselves, and to follow Jesus. It is just a given.

 

[SeventyOne]

I'm wondering what people you hear saying they need to maintain their salvation through works?

Unfortunately, it's been all over this forum for years. And, unfortunately in real life as well, acquaintances, church, Facebook, etc.

To me, it's the other way around. Our salvation inspires us to do good works.

I agree with you. Salvation is by grace through faith, and our good works become something that is set before us by God.

Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Seeking to do what's right in order to please God out of the desire of simply wanting to please God is one thing, while seeking to do what's right to keep God appeased to the point where He won't claim His finished work is no longer sufficient and throws such a person away, is something completely different. A distinction you haven't come to grips with as of yet it seems.

You keep going back to the ax murderer scenario, as if you think it's valid. Jesus said those who are angry at their brother without cause faces the same judgment of that murderer. Why don't you ever mention that, or do you think it's easier for His grace to cover the sin of anger over the sin of murder? What limitations are you imposing on His finished work?

I have mentioned before many times that you cannot hate your brother or there is no eternal life abiding in you. This is what 1 John 3:15 says. This should tell you that it is not just grace alone that saves you. Then there is Matthew 5:22, Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, Galatians 5:19-20, Ephesians 5:3-5, 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, and Revelation 21:8. Take your pick.

For be not deceived. The unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

"In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother." (1 John 3:10).

Nothing is said in 1 John 3:10 how it is about God's saving grace alone without any works. Paul was talking about initial salvation in Ephesians 2:8-9 and Titus 3:5-7.

 

[SeventyOne]

I have mentioned before many times that you cannot hate your brother or there is no eternal life abiding in you. This is what 1 John 3:15 says. This should tell you that it is not just grace alone that saves you. Then there is Matthew 5:22, Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, Galatians 5:19-20, Ephesians 5:3-5, 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, and Revelation 21:8. Take your pick.

For be not deceived. The unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

"In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother." (1 John 3:10).

Nothing is said in 1 John 3:10 how it is about God's saving grace alone without any works. Paul was talking about initial salvation in Ephesians 2:8-9 and Titus 3:5-7.

Then you should know better than using the ax murderer scenario based on 1 John 3:15. That's very disingenuous of you.

You sit there and complain that an eternal security advocate would make the claim that such a person wasn't a christian in the first place, then quote the verse stating such a person isn't saved in the first place.

As far as grace alone not saving me, why don't you just come out with it in a new post and list exactly what the requirements are. How many good works is enough, and where is the line for too few. What's the sin/work ratio? If I sin twice in a day, how many works balance it out. Tell us plainly if you have such understanding. Otherwise, I pray that no one listens to anything you have to say other than to take warning against you, unless they also fall in your trap with you.

Legalists don't understand the gospel, therefore they don't have eternal life themselves. They are likely the most evil of deceivers, because they come disguised as friends and helpers.

 

[SAAN]

The birth of Christ, the Resurrection of Christ are based on pagan origins? Regarding the Sabbath, nobody thinks Sunday is the Sabbath. Sabbath is Sabbath, Sunday is the Lord's Day.
So you are a devotee of Judaism?

There is nowhere in the entire bible where Sunday is refereed to as the Lords Day, Saturday either, you have to make assumptions on what Day John was talking about, as he could have easily been talking about a Feast Day too.

Saturday might win the argument of the Lords Day over Sunday, since Jesus claimed to be Lord of the Sabbath.

 

[SAAN]

The seventh day is the Sabbath. Jesus rose on Sunday, the eighth day. The first day of the week, as Scripture tells us.
Mark 16:9 Now after He had risen early on the first day of the week, He first appeared to Mary Magdalene, from whom He had cast out seven demons.

John 20:1-2

Now on the first day of the week Mary Magdalene came early to the tomb, while it was still dark, and saw the stone already taken away from the tomb. So she ran and came to Simon Peter and to the other disciple whom Jesus loved, and said to them, "They have taken away the Lord out of the tomb, and we do not know where they have laid Him."

Matthew 28:1

Now after the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to look at the grave.

Mark 16:1-2

When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, bought spices, so that they might come and anoint Him. Very early on the first day of the week, they came to the tomb when the sun had risen.

Acts 20:7

On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul began talking to them, intending to leave the next day, and he prolonged his message until midnight.

1 Corinthians 16:1-2

Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I directed the churches of Galatia, so do you also. On the first day of every week each one of you is to put aside and save, as he may prosper, so that no collections be made when I come.

Acts 20:7 shows the Sabbath just ended, so Paul met with them shortly after the sunset and spoke with them until midnight. this verse is not talking about a Sunday morning meeting.

1 Cor 16:2, Pauls is taking up a offering on the 1st day of the week since there was a famine in Jerusalem, plus you are not allowed to conduct business on the Sabbath anyways, so he probably would not have been taking up a offering on the Sabbath. This verse as well isnt talking about a Sunday morning meeting in which people were coming to a service to give their tithes and offerings.

In regards to the 4 Gospels, Matthew 28 states the Sabbath was just ending and it was dawning to the 1st day of the week when Jesus rose and the other 3 gospels simply states when others arrived while it was dark on early in the morning Jesus was already gone. Still nothing here on a Sunday morning at dawn resurrection.


We simply meet on Sunday morning as a tradition of out of context verses. while it isnt a bad tradition, as there is no scripture stating it is a sin to go to church on a Sunday, the supposed Lords Day never replaced the Sabbath, it was Christianity and Judaism breaking off from one another in which the new religion Christianity started its own thing of Sunday worship and substituting biblical Holy Days for its own Holidays which were combined with days of Pagan origins to be considered Holy Days after some modifications.

 

[Trumpeter2]

Acts 20:7 shows the Sabbath just ended, so Paul met with them shortly after the sunset and spoke with them until midnight. this verse is not talking about a Sunday morning meeting.

1 Cor 16:2, Pauls is taking up a offering on the 1st day of the week since there was a famine in Jerusalem, plus you are not allowed to conduct business on the Sabbath anyways, so he probably would not have been taking up a offering on the Sabbath. This verse as well isnt talking about a Sunday morning meeting in which people were coming to a service to give their tithes and offerings.

In regards to the 4 Gospels, Matthew 28 states the Sabbath was just ending and it was dawning to the 1st day of the week when Jesus rose and the other 3 gospels simply states when others arrived while it was dark on early in the morning Jesus was already gone. Still nothing here on a Sunday morning at dawn resurrection.


We simply meet on Sunday morning as a tradition of out of context verses. while it isnt a bad tradition, as there is no scripture stating it is a sin to go to church on a Sunday, the supposed Lords Day never replaced the Sabbath, it was Christianity and Judaism breaking off from one another in which the new religion Christianity started its own thing of Sunday worship and substituting biblical Holy Days for its own Holidays which were combined with days of Pagan origins to be considered Holy Days after some modifications.

I think part of the confusion stems from the fact that for The Lord counts days from sunset to sunset.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You can't be a 'bad person', then be sorry for your ways, and stop? Like the good thief on the Cross?

Yes. I would agree with that. That is true repentance. But most make light of God's commands today and place an overemphasis on His grace and say that they are not saved by anything they do. Then they turn around and contradict themselves and say that one must live holy as a part of showing if one is truly saved or not.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I think part of the confusion stems from the fact that for The Lord counts days from sunset to sunset.
View attachment 211204

You might enjoy this thread I created back at the end of July.

My New Chronology on the Passion Week

Whether we agree or disagree, may God bless you in all good you do for the Lord.

Note: This new chronology on the Passion Week was created based on a Messianic Jewish article I read here. It was really an eye opener. I do not agree with everything they teach of course, but I do agree with their time line on the Passion Week.

 

[Trumpeter2]

You might enjoy this thread I created back at the end of July.

My New Chronology on the Passion Week

Whether we agree or disagree, may God bless you in all good you do for the Lord.

Note: This new chronology on the Passion Week was created based on a Messianic Jewish article I read here. It was really an eye opener. I do not agree with everything they teach of course, but I do agree with their time line on the Passion Week.

Praise The Lord for how he’s using you brother!
I’d like to share this with you:

YahuShua... The Lamb of God: The TRUE Chronology of The Messiah’s Crucifixion and Resurrection
Dropbox - The Lamb of God_The TRUE Chronology-PDF

God bless you!

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

What holidays do you think should be forbidden for a Christian to participate in?

And discuss.

Halloween

 

[Devin P]

The birth of Christ, the Resurrection of Christ are based on pagan origins?

The 25th of December is the birth of a "god", but it's not OUR God. Christmas comes from the feast of Saturnalia, and is in honorand worship to the sun god, and Easter is in reverence of Ishtar. Everything from the egg laying bunnies to the painting of the eggs has to do with other gods.

You don't have to believe me, but if you research into the history of them, who started them, why, where they came from and the figures behind why they thought and did the things we observe in the days I described above you'll quickly see that Jesus, had nothing to do with these days other than slapping His name on top of something that had nothing to do with Him.

Regarding the Sabbath, nobody thinks Sunday is the Sabbath. Sabbath is Sabbath, Sunday is the Lord's Day.

Time Lord's day is the Sabbath, nowhere in the bible does it advocate making a day separate, keeping Sabbath on any other day other than the 7th.

Especially since no one keeps the Sabbath when they observe "the Lord's day". Men and women today place the man made "Lord's day" above the commandment of God concerning Sabbath.

So you are a devotee of Judaism?

No. The Passover and such aren't Jewish. Thru area given to us, and to the Jews. To all who follow God Anna believe in Him and love Him are they given. They were given to the 12 tribes of Israel - of which were grafted into. Judah or Jews are only one of those 12 though.

So no, I'm am Israelite spiritually grafted in. I'm a Torah observant believer in Jesus. I wouldn't say I'm Jewish at all.

 

[meconstant3402]

Why worry about the holidays? Worry instead about what you glorify everyday.

 

[meconstant3402]

Why worry about the holidays? Worry instead about how you follow Christ everyday.

 

[meconstant3402]

All Hallow's Eve (Halloween) is a holy Christian holiday, the Eve of All Saints' Day. In the ancient times of the Church, people dressed up as devils to mock Satan, not in any way to adulate him.

 

[meconstant3402]

Hallow means holy. Een means eve.

 

[meconstant3402]

The satirizing of the devil because his power has been taken away from him forever by Christ in His holy ones (saints) is what Hallow Eve is all about, the night before All Saints' Day. There is NOTHING evil in Halloween. Only holiness.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Why worry about the holidays? Worry instead about what you glorify everyday.

Because you said that you are in support of celebrating Halloween when it is clearly not a Christian holiday. First, regardless of it's origins, the holiday in how it exists today is a glorification of death. Go to starbucks and you can have a zombie frappuccino that looks like brains for zombies to eat. Death and evil. That is what is glorified on this day. People like to scare each other in fun. They like to watch horror movies a lot during this time. People decorate with witches, goblins, ghosts, etc. Second, the Bible says do not have any appearance of evil (1 Thessalonians 5:22). The Bible shouldn't have to say this for you, but it does. But people like the things of world and it is hard for them to give them up. They are torn between God and this world. Pure and simple. That's what this whole thread is about really.