What have you learned...?

[OldWiseGuy]

...about racism in America from these recent events? Are you more or less sympathetic to the problem now? What if anything are you going to do to promote better race relations?

 

[miamited]

...about racism in America from these recent events? Are you more or less sympathetic to the problem now? What if anything are you going to do to promote better race relations?

HI OWG,

I'm going to vote for a less racist national leader. I believe that the leader is ultimately responsible for the general attitude of the people over which he maintains.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

 

[-57]

...about racism in America from these recent events? Are you more or less sympathetic to the problem now? What if anything are you going to do to promote better race relations?

I have learned that the USA is not a racest as they tell us we are.

Racism is an orchestrated ism set up by people who want to divide the nation.

 

[Halbhh]

...about racism in America from these recent events? Are you more or less sympathetic to the problem now? What if anything are you going to do to promote better race relations?

I was sincerely surprised to learn that the number of cops trying to hurt black people they were arresting or trying to catch wasn't just a few, 2 or 3 or 4 in the nation per year just outright slaughtering individuals by shooting them in the back and such....but quite a few more than just a small handful of incidents.

It was not at all surprising to see racism -- we all know it is widespread.

It was surprising how open it is, that is has been so unafraid to act openly. That was the surprising part. I had expected such things to be done only when no one and no camera was around, not out in the open, when it would be recorded, and done as if they thought it would be ok with the rest of America and their rest of their city they live in....

 

[durangodawood]

...about racism in America from these recent events? Are you more or less sympathetic to the problem now? What if anything are you going to do to promote better race relations?

The recent events and protests have made me think a lot more about the enduring effects of centuries of racism and actual brutal oppression.

(Also I'm making a point of not getting distracted by all the little dumb sideshow stories.)

No. I'm really not doing anything important personally. Is that because I havent been doing anything social for months now? Not sure.

 

[JIMINZ]

I have always done unto others, as I would like others to do unto me.

Therefore if that is insufficient for them, then that is their problem, who then is the racist?

 

[PloverWing]

I'm at a (virtual, via Zoom) church conference this week, and one of the speakers talked about the Serenity Prayer -- serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference. The speaker said that it's time to give up "serenity" about racism, to move it from the category of unchangeable things we must accept, to the category of things we can change. The church can change racism, if we have the courage and wisdom to do so.

I think these protests have given me hope that our nation might, right now, have the energy and the will to do something about racism. The Emancipation Proclamation was one move forward, the civil rights movements of the 1950s and 60s another. This could be a time like that. I saw so much hope in black and white people marching together, and clergy marching alongside.

My next step is a reading list. "Dear Church: A Love Letter from a Black Preacher to the Whitest Denomination in the US", by Lenny Duncan. "Stuck in the Shallow End: Education, Race, and Computing", by Jane Margolis et al. A few others.

After that -- Vote, obviously, at the local level as well as the national level. Beyond that, I think there are some concrete suggestions in Duncan's and Margolis' books about possibilities in the church and in education (respectively), and I will see what I can do with their ideas.

 

[JIMINZ]

The church can change racism, if we have the courage and wisdom to do so.

I understand the courage part but, what exactly is the wisdom on the situation?
Any solutions, or is it only Rhetoric?

I saw so much hope in black and white people marching together, and clergy marching alongside.

I saw that in the 60's with MLK but in the last few weeks, I have only seen a MOB.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I'm at a (virtual, via Zoom) church conference this week, and one of the speakers talked about the Serenity Prayer -- serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference. The speaker said that it's time to give up "serenity" about racism, to move it from the category of unchangeable things we must accept, to the category of things we can change. The church can change racism, if we have the courage and wisdom to do so.

I think these protests have given me hope that our nation might, right now, have the energy and the will to do something about racism. The Emancipation Proclamation was one move forward, the civil rights movements of the 1950s and 60s another. This could be a time like that. I saw so much hope in black and white people marching together, and clergy marching alongside.

My next step is a reading list. "Dear Church: A Love Letter from a Black Preacher to the Whitest Denomination in the US", by Lenny Duncan. "Stuck in the Shallow End: Education, Race, and Computing", by Jane Margolis et al. A few others.

After that -- Vote, obviously, at the local level as well as the national level. Beyond that, I think there are some concrete suggestions in Duncan's and Margolis' books about possibilities in the church and in education (respectively), and I will see what I can do with their ideas.

It might be wise to make room at the table for the minority communities... the bargaining table. It may be time for both sides to make some offers, negotiate some things.

 

[PloverWing]

I understand the courage part but, what exactly is the wisdom on the situation?
Any solutions, or is it only Rhetoric?

It's a good question. I remember an anti-racism seminar that I went to a few years ago that communicated that racism exists and is bad (yes, we all knew that) but gave no suggestions for action, and it was frustrating, not really helpful.

I think the problems of racism and white privilege are a complex web of problems, not easily solved by just passing one law or taking one action. There's legislation, and there's community-building, and there's education, and there's subtle attitudes in the workplace, and so on, many pieces. One important piece is this:

It might be wise to make room at the table for the minority communities... the bargaining table. It may be time for both sides to make some offers, negotiate some things.

This was mentioned at today's conference talks, the importance of having black and brown people in leadership positions, where they're part of the decision-making. Make sure that our vestries, our clergy, our classroom and Sunday School teachers, our school boards, our legislatures, etc., aren't all white. (It's similar to a standard suggestion for reducing sexism in the church and workplace.)

For other specific suggestions, I may have to do my reading and get back to you. I was already part of a cooperative project between my university and the local public high school (ethnic makeup 38% white, 37% black, 15% Hispanic) to improve their access to computer science educational equipment, and that's one baby step in the right direction. I agree that it's important to identify specific steps to take, and not just to emote and carry signs.

 

[com7fy8]

done as if they thought it would be ok with the rest of America and their rest of their city they live in....

I don't know what they were actually thinking during that time.

the importance of having black and brown people in leadership positions, where they're part of the decision-making.

Make sure you have ones who are qualified, who have proven themselves. Help blacks who are capable, to do the good they can do.

 

[PloverWing]

Make sure you have ones who are qualified, who have proven themselves.

No problem there. The talent pool is plenty big enough, as long as we're not driving people away through inhospitable attitudes or closed social networks.

 

[Tigger45]

I knew that systemic racism still existed by just watching the evening news and seeing citizens of color not only being treated like second class citizens but police and fellow citizens not being punished for their atrocities against those same individuals. But I was surprised how having the top government figure massaging latent and not so latent racist people groups and systemic racism who quickly ride that pony as if it were the Kentucky derby.

If time heals all wounds it will also bring about a population where minorities will no longer be the minority.

 

[miamited]

Hi ploverwing,

I think that we need to realize and understand that to actually 'fix' racism, we'd have to change the hearts of men and women who see people through a racist lens. People who think of people with racist thoughts. I don't think it will ever be possible to completely wipe out people who are racist. However, raising awareness is the first step in changing some hearts. Some will listen and some will strive for better relations with friends, neighbors and strangers. But I'm confident that there will always be some racist tendencies in many human hearts and minds.

So, I think we might want to lower our objective just a bit if we are working under the idea that we're going to 'cure' all racism by these awareness programs. In this matter of police tactics though, I think we can definitely do better in our training methods regarding how to subdue someone. As the video of the George Floyd event shows the officer with his knee on the man's neck for some 8 minutes, I believe that can be trained out of our police departments. Further, the knee in the neck exacerbates the problem because the victim now automatically begins fighting for is life. It's something that God ingrained in our DNA, that when we think we're going to die, we fight. So, here's an officer trying to calm a suspect, but by blocking his airway he puts the suspect in a position where he actually fights harder to live.

I also believe that people who pooh-pooh the idea of racial inequality in America are just out of touch with what a lot of people have to go through. I've had acquaintances who were racist and the way they would talk to and about black people was downright embarrassing to me. But those who think that we don't have a race problem likely haven't been exposed to such activities and people.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

 

[JIMINZ]

As the video of the George Floyd event shows the officer with his knee on the man's neck for some 8 minutes,

There is a question I have had since the beginning of the incident.

I saw the film of Floyd being stopped and handcuffed, then led across the street.

I then saw another film, I guess this was a bystander with a phone taking a picture of the happening, it is at this point where I see Floyd on the ground and the Policeman kneeling on him, with the other Policemen standing around, nothing at all is taking place.

My first reaction was why don't they just put him in the ---- car and take him to jail.

After a while I asked myself, what did Floyd do in the minds of the Policemen, from the time they took him across the street, to the next film of him on the ground, what transpired in that few minutes that I did not see (Wittiness).

Floyd was already in handcuffs, that means he was under arrest, not just being detained, he should have been Marandised at that time but when the cuffs were put on I don't remember seeing him being Marandised.

Why did then not just put him in the car, he was already under arrest, when they got to the other side of the street..... there is missing time and film.

I am not saying the Policeman was justified in what he was doing by kneeling on Floyd, I am only asking why was he doing it?

What transpired where we do not see what happened to get to that position.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

But those who think that we don't have a race problem likely haven't been exposed to such activities and people.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

We have a race problem, but what is it exactly?

 

[miamited]

Hi jiminz,

My first reaction was why don't they just put him in the ---- car and take him to jail.

Well, for me, that's the issue that needs to be addressed. Once a suspect is handcuffed and reasonably subdued, then restraining force by officers needs to immediately stop or be greatly reduced. Our police seem to often act like a pack of dogs with the intention of 'getting even'. In the McDuffie case in Miami, yes the suspect had broken the law and had in the ensuing chase put lives at risk, but once in custody the police seemed to have ganged up on him as a pack and beat him to death.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

 

[miamited]

We have a race problem, but what is it exactly?

Hi OWG,

Really? You haven't seen videos of skin head groups standing together and yelling racial epithets at people? Really? The problem is that some people actually believe in their hearts that they are better than other people. The problem is that some people actually believe in their hearts that some races of people are practically sub-human. These people are actually unable to empathize with the other person. They have no conceptualization that the other person is just like them in their desires to take care of and protect their families and loved ones. That they have feelings and are hurt by listening to and watching people point their fingers at them and yelling '[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]'. That many, many black people have had to deal with someone in their life at some point who spoke to them or outwardly treated them as if they were some lower class citizen. For many black people, living in America isn't much different than how the lowest caste people are treated in India.

The exact problem that we have with racism is that man's heart is wicked and our love for others has grown cold. Now, as I wrote earlier, I don't expect that this problem can be completely eradicated because we can't control the human heart and mind in that way. We can't 'make' people believe or understand certain truths. But we can always strive to make things better for those of us who are red blooded American citizens to be treated as any other red blooded American citizen. Free of the fear of being pointed out as somehow lesser to others because we happened to be born of black parents.

Our Constitution holds that we believe that all men are created equal, but for quite a few number of years, we didn't actually show that in our relationships with one another, and still today the vestiges of creating an entire class of people who were considered nothing but animals to be worked and fed like an ox or horse, remains in the minds and hearts of some. The old adage is true: One bad apple will spoil the whole basket.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Hi OWG,

Really? You haven't seen videos of skin head groups standing together and yelling racial epithets at people? Really? The problem is that some people actually believe in their hearts that they are better than other people. The problem is that some people actually believe in their hearts that some races of people are practically sub-human. These people are actually unable to empathize with the other person. They have no conceptualization that the other person is just like them in their desires to take care of and protect their families and loved ones. That they have feelings and are hurt by listening to and watching people point their fingers at them and yelling '[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]'. That many, many black people have had to deal with someone in their life at some point who spoke to them or outwardly treated them as if they were some lower class citizen. For many black people, living in America isn't much different than how the lowest caste people are treated in India.

The exact problem that we have with racism is that man's heart is wicked and our love for others has grown cold. Now, as I wrote earlier, I don't expect that this problem can be completely eradicated because we can't control the human heart and mind in that way. We can't 'make' people believe or understand certain truths. But we can always strive to make things better for those of us who are red blooded American citizens to be treated as any other red blooded American citizen. Free of the fear of being pointed out as somehow lesser to others because we happened to be born of black parents.

Our Constitution holds that we believe that all men are created equal, but for quite a few number of years, we didn't actually show that in our relationships with one another, and still today the vestiges of creating an entire class of people who were considered nothing but animals to be worked and fed like an ox or horse, remains in the minds and hearts of some. The old adage is true: One bad apple will spoil the whole basket.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

I think we need more information than we see on the evening news. I'm not sure the problem is really clearly defined to everyone's satisfaction. Hard to solve a problem when you can't agree on what it is.

 

[miamited]

I think we need more information than we see on the evening news. I'm not sure the problem is really clearly defined to everyone's satisfaction. Hard to solve a problem when you can't agree on what it is.

Hi OWG,

Perhaps. Maybe you could work on understanding the problem better and find some definition that not only suits you but agrees with the reality of truth. If you'd like further discussion on the matter, I'd certainly be willing to look at what you feel might need further defining,...to your satisfaction. While I certainly agree that it can be hard to solve a problem when we can't agree on what it is, some problems can even be hard to solve when we do.

However, I think it pretty obviously true that in a nation of some 330 million people 'everyone's satisfaction' can be pretty impossible to achieve.

God bless,
In Christ, ted