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What happens to your soul/spirit when you die?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by mellymell, Dec 2, 2002.

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  1. brewmama

    brewmama Senior Veteran

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    Are you implying from these verses that our soul knows nothing after death? But Christ's death is what frees us from death. He descended to Hades and broke the bonds of death, that's why the OT view is different. There are plenty of NT verses referring to being with the Lord, (II Cor. 5: 4-9, Phil. 1: 21-24, Hebrews 12:22-24)

    The Peter quote is referring to sanctification, which is "partaking of the divine nature of God."
     
  2. mellymell

    mellymell Member

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    Excellent point :clap:

    I personally believe that we definitely have consciousness of existence after death. If we didn't, then who was it exactly that appeared with Jesus during His transfiguration? Were these merely images or representations?? I don't think so. That would be reading too much into clearly given Scripture.

    Further, the parable of the rich man and Lazarus clearly demonstrate that there is CONSCIOUSNESS and memory after death, for the rich man desired that he could GO BACK and tell HIS LOVED ONES about the truth of torment. People debate over whether parables are true stories that Jesus told that could be used as figures to make life-points or if they were totally made up to make the point. Either view you take, it's agreeable that Jesus wouldn't tell a story of a type of existance that wasn't possible, even if the storyline itself was made up. I personally believe that all parables are true, but even if you believe they aren't, surely Jesus wouldn't have gotten unbiblical just to make a point.

    So, with those CLEARLY expressed points out of the way, we return to the idea of what happens when you die, since it's pretty clear that you remember and have concious existence. I personally stuck between two beliefs.
    1) upon death, you are instantly transferred into the presence of the Lord, only to return at the point of Rapture to be reunited with your resurrected bodies in order to have them changed from mortal to immortality in that moment, in the twinkling of an eye.
    2) upon death, your consciousness is in a state of rest (much as when you are sleep), but that the consciousness itself (spirit and soul) remain in the earth until the time of Rapture, during which your body, soul and spirit are resurrected together.

    I personally lean toward believing 2nd of the two because Jesus said that He's going away TO PREPARE a place, that where He is, we may be also. With that in mind, I don't think that the finishing touches are put on heaven until just before He returns... not that He's still "hanging curtains", but I don't think that our reward will be consummated for ANYONE until after the Rapture. You see, Jesus said that He was returning and in His hand He would have the reward for each man according to His works. So, we're not rewarded until AFTER the return, not before. That's why I think that Paul's "absent from the body, present with the Lord" was not meant to be seen as an instantaneous conveyance, but from the perception of the one who died, it would SEEM instantaneous even though a certain amount of time has passed.

    But that's just my thoughts, and why I believe what I tend to believe. Either way I get there, I'll just be glad when I do. HALLELUJAH! :clap:
     
  3. drmmjr

    drmmjr Regular Member

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    How then do you explain the following verses:
    Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
    6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

    Ecclesiastes 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

    Some have said that the trasfiguration was a vision of what would happen after the resurrection of the dead at the second coming. But I guess that we really won't know until then.

    On the parable of the rich man and Lazarus, you need to take the preceeding verses into account. Jesus was telling the Pharisees how that even though they justified themselves before men, God knew their hearts. And that they haven't been listening to him preaching the kingdom of God.

    The parable is not about heaven and hell. It's about them not listening to what he had to say. They have had the prophets in the past and didn't listen to them. So why would they listen to someone who would be raised from the dead.
    The first one is a little hard to swallow, seeing that there are no scriptures telling of an immortal soul. The thing to remember though, is that if you don't know anything when dead, then you are not aware of time passing. So when a person is resurrected from the dead, it would seem instantainious to them. They would close their eyes in death, only to open them at the resurrection. To them, they would only have blinked their eyes.

    Good points on John 14:2:

    John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
    3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

    Yes, he has prepared a place for us, but he is coming back. That is were and when we will have a place with Jesus. On the earth, in the Kingdom, at his second coming.
     
  4. thetruthseeker

    thetruthseeker Member

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    Hi Mellymell,

    Jesus was never un-Biblical when He told stories. Parables are parables. Jesus used stories to explain things. They were not bibliographies. The Rich man and Lazarus parable was just that a parable.

    God uses parables even in dreams and visions. Consider Joseph.

    Genesis 41:17-26 _And Pharaoh said unto Joseph, In my dream, behold, I stood upon the bank of the river: And, behold, there came up out of the river seven kine, fatfleshed and well favoured; and they fed in a meadow: And, behold, seven other kine came up after them, poor and very ill favoured and leanfleshed, such as I never saw in all the land of Egypt for badness: And the lean and the ill favoured kine did eat up the first seven fat kine: And when they had eaten them up, it could not be known that they had eaten them; but they were still ill favoured, as at the beginning. So I awoke. And I saw in my dream, and, behold, seven ears came up in one stalk, full and good: And, behold, seven ears, withered, thin, and blasted with the east wind, sprung up after them: And the thin ears devoured the seven good ears: and I told this unto the magicians; but there was none that could declare it to me. And Joseph said unto Pharaoh, The dream of Pharaoh is one: God hath shewed Pharaoh what he is about to do. The seven good kine are seven years; and the seven

    Can corn eat corn? Can a cow eat a cow? Who gave Pharoah the dream? God did. Was God being un-biblical when He gave Pharoah the dream or was He just trying to illustrate a point?

    The dead are not cognizant of anything. Moses and Elias appeared to Jesus in a vision. I believe that they are in Heaven however they (including) Enoch are the exception. I believe that they were purposely translated and resurrected to illustrate to us the ways in which we will be changed at the second coming. Some will be translated like Enoch and Elija and some will be resurrected like Moses.

    Peter spoke about King David in Acts.

    Acts 2:Acts 2:29-34 _Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

    King David is not in heaven; however, he is saved. He died in the Lord and he is awaiting his resurrection at the second coming of Jesus.

    Body + Spirit (breath of God) = Living Soul
    Body - Spirit (breath of God) = Lifeless Body (Dead)


    This can be analogied to a flashlight.

    Flashlight + Electricity = Light
    Flashlight - Electricity = No Light


    Your brother in Christ,
    TheTruthSeeker
     
  5. mellymell

    mellymell Member

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    Sorry if I was unclear. It was never my intention to imply that Jesus was unbiblical. What I was attempting to convey was that Jesus, even if He was telling a fictional story to make a point, He wouldn't have use an unbiblical approach, as it would have been if there is no consciousness after death---as to the rich man and Lazarus parable.

     

    So, whether a true story or not is beside the point. I just don't think that Jesus would have given an example that seems unbiblical... and if there is no consciousness after death, this rich man and Lazarus example would be unbiblical (even if just fictional).... it would be misleading. The God incarnate was the greatest teacher ever... He's smarter than to use a parable that included biblically contradictory imagery.
     
  6. BuffPansy

    BuffPansy The Oxymoronic Mortal Enigmatic Logical Jesus Frea

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    Just as the Zen master said to the pupil, 'I don't know, I may be a Zen master, but I am not a dead Zen master.'

    -Buff
     
  7. thetruthseeker

    thetruthseeker Member

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    Hi Mellymell,

    Man has a way of depicting Jesus Christ as a loving person when He is on earth but a mercyless Tyrant when He is in Heaven. This is very inconsistant.

    Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

    Let's say that you have a son. One day he gets into mischief and steals a 25 cent lollipop from a drug store. As he leaves the store and crosses the street, he gets hit by a car and dies in his sin. Will he burn throughout the eons of time for stealing a 25 cent lollipop?

    Jesus said the following to Moses:

    Exodus 34:6 And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,

    The Bible says this of the Lord.

    1 John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love

    Revelation 15:3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.

    The Tyrant of the endless burning Hell that many Christians invent is not the Jesus that the Bible describes.

    The concept of an everlasting hell is a false doctrine.

    This doctrine of an indestructible soul comes from the Catholic Church who got it from the Pagan Greeks. This pagan doctrine is called "Greek Dualism."

    Many people are aetheists today because of the endless Hell lie (slander against Jesus Christ).

    Where is King David if he has not yet ascended?

    Regarding the Rich man and Lazarus parable, would it be misleading to show that corn can eat corn? Would it be misleading to show that 10 virgins and there lamps were living?

    Oh yes, the wicked will burn up and will no longer be. They will die the "second death" a death in which there will be no resurrection--an everlasting death.

    Your brother in Christ,
    TheTruthSeeker
     
  8. mellymell

    mellymell Member

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    I don't think I can disagree with you more. Scripture is clear in Revelation that when the throne judgement has ended, those not found written in the Lamb's Book of Life were cast into the lake of fire... (Rev. 20:15) In the preceeding verses (vs. 12-13), it is made clear that this is in reference to every person who has ever lived.

    So, the lake of fire is a real place... There IS weeping, and gnasing of teeth (Matt. 24:44-51).

    I think that people have this idea of NO-HELL simply to appease people so that Christianity will sound more appealing. I'm not interested in watering down the gospel, for IT ALONE is the power of God unto salvation. I believe in giving the unadulterated message, not the politically correct one. No offense.

    God bless.
     
  9. seangoh

    seangoh Veteran

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    Hi mellymell,
    I believe that there'll be weeping and gnashing of teeth. But i don't believe in an eternally burning hell. When hell fire comes, ppl will be weeping coz they realise the lost they have gained.(or lost)
    I believe there'll be gnashing of teeth for the same reason! But these 2 occurences will be for a time, not eternity since it takes time for the fire to burn them all up.

    Scripture cannot contradict each other. Now, for Rom 6 :23

    "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. "

    Once Jesus comes down to give us our rewards, the righteous will get eternal life, but the unrighteous will get eternal death.

    So my question for u is your definition of eternal death. Check any dictionary and they will tell you that death is the absence of life. If they are in hell, they have eternal life, not eternal death.

    It seems to me that you have a different definition of eternal death, which is actually eternal life and i don't buy that since it's illogical as everyone that has ever lived will have eternal life.
     
  10. adam332

    adam332 Deut. 10:12 And now, Israel, what doth the LORD t

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    Mellymel,
    I am sorry but the weeping and gnashing of teeth and the several outer darkness references are all speaking of what happens to the wicked in the first death. Which occurs at the second coming, this is CLEARLY not the same moment which is portrayed after the millennium. You are comparing two events that take place over a thousand years apart.

    Let's examine these passages to make sure, ok?

    Christ employed much of the same imagery and phrases into His words. One such instance of this, is the phrase “WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH”. In the original Greek text the phrase is rendered as such; “klauthmos kai brugmos odous”.
    This phrase is found in only five verses, all five will be discussed here but only two instances will be focused upon due to their particular and clear imagery.

    The first is in Mat 8:12. In this conversation, Christ uses this phrase to express a point, to his followers, about the diversity of people that will enter into the kingdom, with the faithful centurion as an example. It also gives a warning of the fate that awaits those who are called his children but will find themselves cast out of the Kingdom of Heaven.

    Mat. 8:11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall SIT DOWN WITH ABRAHAM, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the KINGDOM OF HEAVEN.
    Mat. 8:12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be WEEPING AND GNASHING of teeth.

    The ones that are coming from the different directions, are the righteous elect being delivered to Christ by His angels.

    Mat. 24:31 And he shall send HIS ANGELS with a great sound of a trumpet, and they SHALL GATHER TOGETHER HIS ELECT FROM THE FOUR WINDS, from one end of heaven to the other.

    Mark 13:27 And then shall he send HIS ANGELS, and SHALL GATHER TOGETHER HIS ELECT FROM THE FOUR WINDS, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

    The angels gather his elect as they rise into the air, (1Thes. 4:15-17), and take them to sit in the kingdom of heaven. The timing of these details are unmistakable, they will occur at His second coming.

    The second use of this phrase, is found in Mat. 22:13. This time it is used in a parable whose timing also leaves no doubt that this is at His second coming. This is “the parable of the wedding feast”. In this parable it is used to emphasize that “few are chosen” (v.14), to enter into His heavenly kingdom, (v.2), and those who aren‘t will find torment.

    The third time this phrase can be found, is in Mat. 24:51. This is a brief parable of the two servants. Here we see this phrase is used strictly as a warning of the fate of the “evil servant” whose master “cometh“ and finds him doing wickedly. Again the timing here is undeniably at the second coming. The context of this particular usage, is very similar to warnings that are found in these “thief in the night” passages, (Mat. 24:43, Luke12:39, 1Thes. 5:2-4, Rev. 3:3, Rev. 16:15) which are also speaking of the second coming.

    The fourth time we see this phrase, is in Mat. 25:30. Again, it is clearly confirmed to be at the coming of Christ(v.27, 31), and again it is used in a parable. This time in “the parable of the talents” we see it used in a warning about stewardship which informs us to use wisely that which God has blessed us with or we will be found “unprofitable” and will be cast out of the masters house and into torment.

    The fifth and final time in which this phrase is used, is in Luke 13:28. This is “the parable of the strait gate”, also touched upon in Mat. 7:13. Once more, we see a warning, and fate of those who think they are righteous but are still unfavorable to God.

    Luke 13:28 There shall be WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH, when ye shall SEE ABRAHAM, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the KINGDOM of God, and you yourselves thrust out.
    Luke 13:29 And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall SIT down in the KINGDOM of God.

    Notice, in the first and last verses discussed how the elect are seen as "SITTING" down in the kingdom of heaven following Christ's arrival. We all know from 2Pet3:5-10 and Rev. 19:11-20:6 that the righteous reign with Christ in the kingdom for a millennium, after He comes to receive the righteous. Let's see if we can find any other authors that record that the saints will SIT with Christ for a thousand yrs., and what these saints might possibly do during that thousand years.

    Rev. 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they SAT upon them, and JUDGMENT WAS GIVEN UNTO THEM: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and THEY LIVED and REIGNED WITH CHRIST A THOUSAND YEARS.

    Mat. 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall SIT in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, JUDGING THE TWELVE TRIBES OF ISRAEL.

    Luke 22:30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and SIT on thrones JUDGING THE TWELVE TRIBES OF ISRAEL.

    Dan. 7:22 Until the Ancient of days came, and JUDGMENT WAS GIVEN TO THE SAINTS of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the KINGDOM.

    1Cor. 6:2 Do ye not know that THE SAINTS SHALL JUDGE the world? and if the world SHALL BE JUDGED BY YOU, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

    1Cor. 6:3 Know ye not that WE SHALL JUDGE angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

    Rev. 20:6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but THEY SHALL BE PRIESTS of God and of Christ, and SHALL REIGN WITH HIM A THOUSAND YEARS.

    According to all the scripture we’ve discussed, all the righteous made up of the living and the dead saints are taken to the kingdom of heaven at Christ’s arrival. This includes saints from all ages, for we have seen mention of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and all the prophets sitting together in the Lord’s kingdom, (Luke 13:28).

    Weeping and gnashing of teeth is a phrase that simply denotes torture and/anguish, which shall surely be felt when the wicked are destroyed at the brightness of His coming. Over and over the Bible records that ALL of the wicked living will be slain at the second coming in a fire that dissolves the very heaven and makes the earth melt like wax.


    The term "outer darkness" comes from a phrase that was used in Jerusalem referring to the East side of town, which had no lamps in the streets. After sundown, the only light cast was from those who had light in the houses.

    Therefore; if you were in "outer darkness" you were outside of the lit houses of Jerusalem. So shall it be when Christ comes. Those who do not go up to New Jerusalem shall be the ones in "outer darkness". For in New Jerusalem there will be light,

    1Kin. 11:36 And unto his son will I give one tribe, that David my servant may have a light alway before me in Jerusalem, the city which I have chosen me to put my name there.

    As Jeremiah says the heavens will be black at the second coming.

    Jer. 4:23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, [it was] without form, and void; and THE HEAVENS, and they [HAD] NO LIGHT.

    Jer. 4:28 For this shall the earth mourn, and THE HEAVENS ABOVE BE BLACK: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.

    The righteous saints will be in the air, bound for New Jerusalem, while the wicked are on the earth being burnt up by the glory of of all the host of heaven at the brightness of his coming.

    They will be burnt up as stubble by His brightness, because they will be in spiritual darkness as well. While the righteous will be purified as gold by the same glory.

    Interestingly, this gnawing and gnashing that is accompanied by darkness, will actually begin before the coming of Christ as well, at the time the fifth angel pours out his vial.

    Rev. 16:10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
     
  11. drmmjr

    drmmjr Regular Member

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    The weeping and gnashing of teeth is what those who are not written in the Book of Life will do when they find that out. They will do this when they realize that they are going to be destroyed in the lake of fire.
    adam 332, you said:
    Yes there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, but it won't last forever since, as you have pointed out, "the wicked are destroyed". They will weep and gnash their teeth when they realize what is in store for them and what they are missing out on.

    seangoh has made the same points. well said.

    mellymell,

    You said:
    But the lake of fire is not hell. Hell is the grave. In fact, read the last part of Revelation 20:
    Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
    14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
    15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

    If hell is the lake of fire, how can it be cast into itself?
     
  12. adam332

    adam332 Deut. 10:12 And now, Israel, what doth the LORD t

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    The actual question was;
    "What happens to your soul/spirit when you die?"

    I've seen a lot of people tell there opinion, but I have seen no one give any scripture that actually answers this specific question.

    So without any futher ado, here is what the Bible says.....

    When one dies, the “breath of life”, (spirit), returns to where it came from; the hand of God.

    Psa. 31:5 Into thine HAND I commit my SPIRIT: thou hast redeemed me, O LORD God of truth.

    Ecc. 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and THE SPIRIT SHALL RETURN UNTO GOD who gave it.

    Job 12:10 IN WHOSE HAND [is] THE SOUL OF EVERY LIVING THING, AND THE BREATH OF ALL MANKIND.

    Dan. 5:23 “...and the God in whose HAND thy BREATH[is], and whose [are] all thy ways, hast thou not glorified:”

    Luk 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy HANDS I commend my SPIRIT: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

    The body dies and decays and eventually turns to dust, but the soul/spirit/breath of all mankind returns to the hand of God until the day of their resurrection.

    Remember, what is in the “HAND” of God, the Breath of Life.

    Isa 66:14 And when ye see [this], your heart shall rejoice, and YOUR BONES SHALL FLOURISH like an herb: and THE HAND of the LORD shall be known toward his servants, and [his] indignation toward his enemies.

    Eze. 37:6 And I WILL LAY SINEWS upon you, and will BRING UP FLESH upon you, and COVER YOU WITH SKIN, and put BREATH in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I [am] the LORD.

    As you can see this resurrection verse in Ezekiel shows the body is formed FIRST, then the breath(spirit) is returned, and only then are they called alive.
    This is the same order we saw in creation. (Gen. 2:7).
    There is a major misconception in the world of Christianity, many believe that when a person dies they go straight to heaven or hell.
    This is not what the Bible teaches at all.
    If this were true, it would be pointless to have a day of judgment,
    and a resurrection.
    How are these people able to go to heaven or hell, when
    they have not experienced the judgment day?

    1Jo 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the DAY OF JUDGMENT: because as he is, so are we in this world.

    What state is the breath/soul/spirit of mankind in while they are in the hand of God? Again let us use the Bible to show us.....

    The dead simply sleep until the resurrection.

    See Rest-(rests, resting, rested, resteth, etc...)- 7verses
    Job 17:16, Psa. 16:9, Hab. 3:16, John 11:13, Acts 2:26, Rev. 6:11, Rev. 14:13.

    Sleep-(sleeps, slept, sleeping, sleepeth, sleepest, asleep, etc...)- 63verses
    Deu. 31:16, 2 Sam. 7:12, 1 Kings 1:21, 1 Kings 2:10, 1 Kings 11:21, 1 Kings 11:43, 1 Kings 14:20, 1 Kings 14:31, 1 Kings 15:8, 1 Kings 15:24, 1 Kings 16:6, 1 Kings 16:28, 1 Kings 22:40, 1 Kings 22:50, 2 Kings 8:24, 2 Kings 10:35, 2 Kings 13:9, 2 Kings 13:13, 2 Kings 14:16, 2 Kings 14:22, 2 Kings 14:29, 2 Kings 15:7, 2 Kings 15:22, 2 Kings 15:38, 2 Kings 16:20, 2 Kings 20:21, 2 Kings 21:18, 2 Kings 24:6, 2 Chr. 9:31, 2 Chr. 12:16, 2 Chr. 14:1, 2 Chr. 16:13, 2 Chr. 21:1, 2 Chr. 26:2, 2 Chr. 26:23, 2 Chr. 27:9, 2 Chr. 28:27, 2 Chr. 32:33, 2 Chr. 33:20, Job 7:21, Job 14:12, Psa. 13:3, Psa. 76:6, Psa. 90:5, Dan. 12:2, Mat. 9:24, Mat. 27:52, Mark 5:39, Luke 8:52, John 11:11-13, Acts 7:60, Acts 13:36, 1 Cor. 5:20, 1Cor. 15:6, 1Cor. 15:18, 1 Cor. 15:51, Eph. 5:14, 1 Thes. 4:13-15, 2Pet 3:4.

    Awake(wake, waketh, wakest, waken, wakened, etc...)- 6verses
    Psa. 17:15, Isa. 26:19, Isa.51:9, Isa. 52:1, 1Cor. 15:34, 1Thes. 5:10.
     
  13. seangoh

    seangoh Veteran

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    Good point drmmjr, in this case of Rev 20:13, hell refers to the grave. But just to refine what u said in case others misunderstand, hell doesn't mean the grave always. Hell is a generalised term used in the english translation from the greek and hebrew language.

    Hades, Gehenna, Tartarus and Sheol are transliterated or translated into the simplified term Hell. If i'm not wrong, the translators did a good and bad move. Good in a sense that they were trying not to be biased since the group didn't believe the same way. And bad in a sense that normal people who reads it will get confused if this point is not realised.
     
  14. mellymell

    mellymell Member

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    I never intended to claim that they were the same... But, the fact is that those left in hell will BURN if HELL is cast into the lake of fire. All those not found in the Lamb's Book of Life are cast into the Lake of Fire... It doesn't get any clearer than Revelation reveals.

    Now, let's not get into a heaven and hell issue because that's a different thing altogether. Back on the subject of what you think happens when you die... ;) (speaking of BEFORE judgment but after death...)
     
  15. thetruthseeker

    thetruthseeker Member

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    Hi Mellymell,

    According to the Bible, there is no burning Hell as of yet. However there will be a Hell after Jesus' second coming.

    2 Peter 3:10-12 _But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

    This will be Hell.

    There is no Hell in the center of the Earth. That is pagan mythology.

    The verse above from the Bible.

    The wicked will be burned up.

    Malachi 4:1-3 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall. And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.

    The wicked will be burned up.

    Psalms 37:20 _But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.

    Even Satan will be burned up.

    Isaiah 14:12 _How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms; That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners? All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house. But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.

    Ezekiel 28:14-19 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.


    Again, the wicked in every case, including, Satan will burn--to ashes. They will no longer exist. This will happen on the "Day of the Lord." Judgement day.

    Your brother in Christ,
    TheTruthSeeker
     
  16. adam332

    adam332 Deut. 10:12 And now, Israel, what doth the LORD t

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    Mellymell,

    did you see my post to you on page 3?
     
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