• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.

What happens to us after we die?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Quasar92, Jun 25, 2017.

  1. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,924
    Christian
    Single
    From the Scriptural Teachings of What Happens to us after we die:

    To begin with, there are a number of theories that can be found by vaious expositors as to what happens to us after we die, With that in mind, this one will come directly from what can be found in our Bible about it. The short of it is, there are only two groups: those who believe in Jesus Christ and those who do not, with the end result of all the former being given eternal life in heaven with the Lord, and all the latter spending all eternity in the lake of fire.

    1. We are told that our human bodies consist of a natural, mortal, perishable body, with a spirit and a soul, according to 1 Thes.5:23.

    2. An explanation as to what our souls are can be said to be our character, personality, emotions together with everything that makes each one of us a unique, one of a kind person. Our own personal identification, whether in our natural bodies or our coming glorified, spiritual bodies, as found in 1 Cor.15:44. According to Heb.4:12, our spirit/souls are an inseparable integral duo that only God can separate.

    3. Our spirits can be seen as the breath of life in us from God and the body for our souls. As recorded in Ecc.12:7, our natural bodies return to dust and our spirit [including our souls that are our personal identities.] return to God who gave them. Confirmed for all of us who belong to Jesus, in 2 Cor.5:6-8 and inferred in Phil.1:21-23, we go to be with Jesus in heaven, immediately following our natural bodies. For the spirit/souls of those who do not believe in Jesus/God, is revealed in His parable of Lazarus, a believer and the rich man, a non-believer, in Lk.16:19-31. The rich man is seen as going to Sheol/Hell immediately. Since the parable is a perfect profile of OT Sheol, all the righteous spirit/souls went there after the death of their bodies, because it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins, as recorded in Heb.10:4.. Until Jesus shed His blood and died on the cross for us all, and we now go immediately to be with Him in heaven as previously addressed above.

    4. When we die, and are raised, translated or resurrected, depending on the circumstances, we are changed, in a twinkling of an eye, from a natural, perishable, mortal body, to a spiritual, non-perishable, immortal body, as found in 1 Cor.15:44, 53-54. Which will all be explained throughout the following.

    5. Those who die are divided into two groups, those of us who belong to Jesus Christ, and those who do not believe in Jesus Christ, contrasted in Jn.3:16 and in Jn.3:18, as well as in Mt.25:46 and Dan.12:2. Which records the fact that our spirit/souls never die. Confirmed for those of us who belong to Christ and die in Him, as found in 2 Cor.5:6-8 and inferred in Phil.1:21-23, when our spirit/souls will be changed into our glorified spiritual bodies and we are raised to be with Jesus in heaven, immediately following the death of our natural bodies. In Jn.11:26, Jesus said, "...whoever lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?"
    Later on, all those who previously died in Christ, are seen returning with Him from heaven, in 1 Thes.4:14, where they have been since the death of their natural body, confirming the immortality of our spirit/souls, when He comes for the rest of us who belong to Him, in verses 16-17. He will appear and we will all be caught up/raptured to meet the Lord, together with them in the clouds of the sky. Here, our bodies will be changed to the glorified spiritual bodies, as recorded in 1 Cor.15:52-54, and we will be translated to be with Jesus in the sky, where He then takes us to our Father in heaven as He promised us in Jn.14:2-4 and 28. Keep in mind, flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, as recorded in 1 Cor.15:50.

    6. We will now have a look at the disposition of all those who do not belong to the Lord and were not caught up to be with Him as His Church will be. But rather, will participate in the terrible Day of the Lord, the 70th Week of Daniel, the seven years of tribulation, which are all the same event. In Mt.24:21, Jesus said, "For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now - and never to be equaled again."
    In the absence of the Church Jesus will take to our Father in heaven with Him, God will place 144,000 Israelite evangelists on the earth together with two witnesses to preach the Gospel and to testify for the Lord, as recorded in Rev.7:1-8 and 11:3-6, who will bring a great multitude to the Lord as seen in the parenthetic Rev.7:9-17. Which is the very same group who are going to participate in the first resurrection, of Rev.20:4 and 6. They will all be martyrs, who will pay with their lives for their testimony of the Lord Jesus Christ, during the tribulation, slain by the two beasts, the antichrist, the false prophet and the ten horns/nations allied to them. These are called tribulation saints and do not belong to the pre-trib raptured Church.

    7. The wedding takes place between the Lamb [Jesus] and His Bride [The Church] in Rev.19:7-9 and He returns to the earth in His second coming with His angels [In Mt.24:31] and His Church following Him in His armies from heaven [Rev.19:14]. Jesus will then lead us into the battle of Armageddon against the two beasts, who are the antichrist, the false prophet and the ten horns/nations allied to them. [Not to worry, our bodies will all be glorified and indestructable at that time]. The ten nation armies are destroyed and the two beasts are thrown into the lake of fire forever, according to Rev.19:17-20. Of an estimated 7 billion people who enter the seven year tribulation, there will only be 2.3 billion when it ends, as documented in Zech.13:8.

    8. After Satan is thrown into the Abyss for 1,000 years, the first resurrection will take place of all the tribulation martyred saints, who will be brought to the Lord by the 144,000 Israelite evangelists, in the absence of the raptured Church, [as seen in Rev.7:9-17] in Rev.20:4 and 6. They will emerge from their graves in their glorified bodies, visible, as Jesus was when He was resurrected, and will be made priests of God and of Christ and rule with Him for 1,000 years here on the earth while Satan is in the Abyss, as found in Rev.20:4 and 6..

    9. During Jesus Millennial Kingdom here on the earth, many more will be brought to the Lord [by the many priest who participated in the first resurrection], as well as those who survived the seven year tribulation, but did not receive Jesus as their Lord at that time. At the end of Jesus 1,000 year reign on earth, Satan is released and builds a huge army he will rebels against God's people with, around Jerusalem. God will destroy the army with fire from heaven, and Satan will be thrown into the lake of fire forever, according to Rev.20:7-10.

    10. The second resurrection will take place then, when both believers and the wicked will come forth in their spiritual immortal bodies. Fulfilling Dan.12:2 and Jn.5:28-29 as well as Rev.20:15. The wicked, whose names are not found written in the book of life will be thrown into the lake of fire forever, along with Death and Sheol/Hades/Hell. No more death! Then the end comes, and the present heaven and earth pass away and God will provide us a new heaven and earth fulfilling Rev.21:1.

    As seen in the above, every body will be changed in the above, from the perishable to the imperishable and from Mortal to the immortal, whether they are those who belong to Jesus Christ and spend all eternity in heaven, or the Godless and wicked who will spend all eternity in the lake of fire.

    Source: http://deeperwalk.lefora.com/topic/3880912/What-happens-to-us-after-we-die#.U71zxfldW1L


    Quasar92
     
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. LastSeven

    LastSeven Amil Supporter

    +997
    Canada
    Christian
    Married
    I love this topic. I had actually done my own study on this and came up with a very different conclusion. I'm actually disappointed to see that you didn't bring in any of the verses that actually specifically talk about the dead, like "the dead know nothing" and "David slept with his fathers" and other such verses.

    Premise

    Traditionally most people believe that there is a ghost-like “spirit” inside of our bodies, and when we die, this spirit floats away somewhere, preferably heaven.

    I will show that the Bible actually does not support this theory. In fact, according to the Bible there is no spirit inside of us at all. We exist only as mortal bodies, made from dust having been given the breath of life. And it is this “breath of life” that is confused with, or interpreted as, a “spirit”.

    What Happens When We Die

    Scripture says it plainly.

    Genesis 3:19
    By the sweat of your face you shall eat bread, till you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; for you are dust, and to dust you shall return.”

    Job 7:21
    Why then do you not pardon my transgression and take away my iniquity? For now I will lie down in the dust; And You will seek me, but I will not be."

    Job 14:10:12
    But man dies and lies prostrate man expires, and where is he? "As water evaporates from the sea, and a river becomes parched and dried up, so man lies down and does not rise. Until the heavens are no longer, he will not awake nor be aroused out of his sleep.

    Psalm 115:17
    The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence.

    Psalm 146:4
    When his breath departs, he returns to the earth; on that very day his plans perish.

    Ecclesiastes 3:19-20
    For what happens to the children of man and what happens to the beasts is the same; as one dies, so dies the other. They all have the same breath, and man has no advantage over the beasts, for all is vanity. All go to one place. All are from the dust, and to dust all return.

    Ecclesiastes 9:5
    For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing

    Over and over again the Bible says that the dead know nothing. These are only a few examples. The dead don’t think. They don’t praise the Lord. They have no consciousness. They return to the earth, as dust. Their plans perish and they cease to exist. Ecclesiastes 3 even tells us that man has no advantage over the beasts. All go to one place, which is dust.

    Death Compared to Sleep


    Psalms 13:3
    Consider and answer me, O LORD my God; Enlighten my eyes, or I will sleep the sleep of death,

    1 Kings 2:10
    Then David slept with his fathers and was buried in the city of David.

    When Lazarus died, Jesus said he was sleeping.

    John 11:11-14
    After he had said this, he went on to tell them, “Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I am going there to wake him up.” 12 His disciples replied, “Lord, if he sleeps, he will get better.” 13 Jesus had been speaking of his death, but his disciples thought he meant natural sleep. 14 So then he told them plainly, “Lazarus is dead

    Why would Jesus compare Lazarus’ death to “sleep” if Lazarus’ spirit has ascended into heaven? And why was there no mention of his spirit leaving his body?

    Matthew 9:24
    He said, "Leave; for the girl has not died, but is asleep." And they began laughing at Him.

    Daniel 12:2
    Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt.

    Daniel was told he would “rest” until the resurrection.

    Daniel 12:13
    As for you, go your way till the end. You will rest, and then at the end of the days you will rise to receive your allotted inheritance.”

    If Daniel’s spirit was to go to heaven after death, then why was he told that he would rest? Why did the angel not say instead, I’ll see you in heaven soon, or something to that effect? It’s because Daniel wasn’t going to heaven. He was going to the dust of the earth. Daniel is now dead. He is not in heaven. He’s dead in the dust of the earth and on the day of the resurrection, he will rise, along with the rest of us.

    What Happens When we are Resurrected


    The resurrection, as Paul describes it, actually also proves that we have no spirit in us that goes to heaven when we die.

    Imagine if we did have a spirit. We would fly up to heaven and we would do whatever we do in heaven. Praise the Lord, play Frisbee, eat BBQ chicken. No matter how you envision an existence in heaven, it would require at the very least that we have a consciousness, a thought process and a free will to continue to make decisions. All of this would contradict the old testament verses above.

    It would also contradict the new testament book of 1 Corinthians, because according to Paul this life in a spiritual body, which we imagine in heaven, does not come to us until the very last day, when we are resurrected.

    1 Corinthians 15:42
    So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.

    1 Corinthians 15:46
    The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven.

    Paul clearly states that we are created with a natural body, not a spiritual body. We will be transformed into a spiritual body upon the resurrection. “The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual”. In other words, when God created us, we were not given spiritual bodies, only natural bodies, but we would receive spiritual bodies later, upon the resurrection.

    Our bodies are sewn natural, raised spiritual. This is the point of the resurrection, to make us spiritual so that we can be immortal. So if you believe that we already have immortal spirits that leave our bodies when we die, you have a conundrum.

    The Spiritual Conundrum

    Imagine the traditional teaching, where we have a spirit and we go to heaven as a spirit when we die. Then please tell me, what is the point of the resurrection?

    If we are already in heaven, as immortal spirits, then why would we need to be transformed into spirits on the last day? If it is so, then when our bodies on earth are transformed into spirits, do we end up with two spirits? The one in heaven and the one on earth? Do our spirits in heaven then join our old bodies which have been transformed? Would we then be a spirit within a spirit? Two spirits? What nonsense!

    If we’re being transformed into spirits, then we can not already be spirits, otherwise what would be the point? The point of the resurrection is to make us immortal. To make us spirits. This would be entirely nonsensical if we are already living as spirits in heaven, and this is how Paul’s description of the resurrection proves that we do not have a spirit inside of us that continues to live after death.

    Soul (Nephesh)

    To add to the confusion, in addition to the obvious body and the presumed spirit, we also supposedly possess a “soul”. What is a soul? You are a soul.

    Genesis 2:7
    And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

    Notice in the verse above that man became a living soul. He was not given a soul. He became a soul. In other words, we do not have souls, we are souls.

    The word soul in this verse was originally written in Hebrew as לְנֶ֥פֶשׁ which is transliterated as nephesh. Strong’s concordance defines nephesh as “a soul, living being, life, self, person, desire, passion, appetite, emotion”. With this definition in mind, the last part of Genesis 2:7 can be paraphrased as, for example “man became alive” or “man became an individual”. It is in fact the very moment when man gained his self awareness and free will.

    The same word occurs 754 times in the old testament, so we can’t look at all examples but let’s look at one more.

    Genesis 1:20
    And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life (Nephesh), and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

    Here the King James Bible translates it as “creature that hath life”. Remember, this is the same word that was translated as “soul” in Genesis 2:7. The more examples you look at the more obvious it becomes that when the word “soul” is used in scripture it refers simply to “a living creature”.

    So keep in mind the true meaning of the word Nephesh, which can be translated as soul, living creature, person or individual, when you read verses such as…

    Ezekiel 18:20
    The soul who sins shall die.

    The living creature who sins…
    The person who sins…
    The individual who sins…

    The Spirit (Ruach)


    These are a number of verses that can be used to support the notion that we all have a spirit inside of us that continues to live after the body dies. And at first glance, some of these verses are very convincing.

    For example

    Ecclesiastes 12:7
    the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

    2 Corinthians 5:8
    Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord.

    James 2:26
    For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.

    Obviously, the key to understanding such verses is understanding the meaning of “spirit”. As it turns out, in these examples, the word spirit refers to the breath of God, which is life.

    Ecclesiastes 12:7
    the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

    This verse seems to imply that our spirit goes up to heaven when we die, but actually “spirit” here refers to the life that God breathed into man in Genesis 2:7. It’s the life that returns to God, because the life came from God.

    Genesis 2:7
    And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

    The word used through the old testament for spirit is the Hebrew word Ruach ר֫וּחַ, which can also be translated as “breath or wind”. In fact, this is how it is translated in various other verses including Genesis 7:15 and Psalm 104:29.

    Genesis 7:15
    Pairs of all creatures that have the breath of life (ruach) in them came to Noah and entered the ark.

    Psalm 104:29
    When you hide your face, they are terrified; when you take away their breath (ruach), they die and return to the dust.

    When God gave man life, it was his breath/wind/spirit which God gave. The spirit of God is life. And it’s this spirit, this life, that returns to God in Ecclesiastes 12:7

    Ecclesiastes 12:7
    the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit (ruach – life / breath) returns to God who gave it.

    Other verses clearly explain that it is the spirit of God, or the breath of God, that has given us life.

    John 6:63 says The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you--they are full of the Spirit and life.

    Job 33:4 says The spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.

    The many Hebrew names of God in fact include the word Ruach each time.

    English Name The Spirit of God
    Hebrew Name Ruach Elohim

    English Name The Spirit of the Lord
    Hebrew Name Ruach Adonai

    English Name The Holy Spirit
    Hebrew Name Ruach Hakkodesh

    English Name The Spirit of the Lord God
    Hebrew Name Ruach Adonai Elohim

    English Name The Spirit of God
    Hebrew Name Ruach-El

    Clearly, the word Ruach does not refer to a ghostly spirit that lives inside each of us, but rather the breath of life which came from God himself, and which is a part of God himself. Let’s look at the verse again.

    Ecclesiastes 12:7
    the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit (breath of life) returns to God who gave it.

    And now compare that to the verse that describes man becoming a living creature.

    Genesis 2:7
    And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

    In other words, God gave his living spirit (Ruach) and man became a living soul (Nephesh).

    When Jesus Died

    When this discussion of a spirit comes up people often point to references around Jesus’ death on the cross as proof that his “spirit” left him.

    Luke 23:46
    And when Jesus had cried out with a loud voice, He said, "Father, 'into Your hands I commit My spirit.'" Having said this, He breathed His last.

    Matthew 27:50
    And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit.

    John 19:30
    So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, "It is finished!" And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.

    I used to think, as most people do, that each reference to “spirit” in these verses referred to a conscious ghostly entity that left Jesus’ body and floated up to heaven (or hell, depending on who you ask) where Jesus continued to “live”. However, if we look at the original Greek word used we get an entirely different picture.

    Remember, the Hebrew word translated as spirit in the old testament is Ruach and it means “breath” or “wind”. In the new testament the original text is Greek and in each of these three verses above, the word translated as spirit is the Greek word “Pneuma”. Pneuma means “wind, breath, spirit”. It has the exact same meaning as the Hebrew Ruach. Go figure.

    Also remember that in Genesis 2:7 God created man and gave man the breath of life. That god given breath is not just a simple breath that we take for granted; it is life. So if we understand that the Greek meaning of the word “pneuma” is actually a reference to life itself which God breathed into us, these verses suddenly take on a whole new meaning.

    Luke 23:46
    And when Jesus had cried out with a loud voice, He said, "Father, 'into Your hands I commit My spirit life.'" Having said this, He breathed His last.

    Matthew 27:50
    And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit life.

    John 19:30
    So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, "It is finished!" And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit life.

    Of course, looking back at it now, it seems so obvious that Jesus did not continue to live in spirit form after his death, because if that were the case he wouldn’t have really died. But he actually did die. He really died. The breath of life left him and he died.

    There is literally no Bible verse that claims there is a ghostly spirit inside each of us that lives on after death. In fact, quite the opposite. All indications are that when we die, we return to the dust of the earth, without any consciousness, knowing nothing and realizing nothing. And it’s only at the resurrection, when the breath of God returns to us, that we become spiritual creatures.
     
  3. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,924
    Christian
    Single

    Plese accept my compliments for what clearly took much of your time, study and research.

    There are, hwever a few anomalies, among which is the Scriptural fact that God made us with a natural, mortal, perishable body, with an everlasting spirit and soul, as recorded in 1 Thess.5:23. Reference is made to a spiritual body, in 1 Cor.15:44, as well as in Heb.4:12.

    With reference to Jesus glorified body; you made the remark that after His resurrection, His body doe not become spirit. As it is with the angels who appeared physically, such as in Gen.18, 19 and 32, as well as in Jos.5:13-15, Jesus most certainly had the same power. How, for exampe, did Jesus return from heaven, to commission Saul/Paul to be His Apostle to the Gentiles without being seen by Saul or the men in his entouraqge, in Acts 9:7?


    Quasar92
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2017
  4. LastSeven

    LastSeven Amil Supporter

    +997
    Canada
    Christian
    Married
    1 Thess 5 says "May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless". At first glance it does appear to indicate three parts to our whole, but it's far from definitive in that regard. And keeping in mind the many other definitive scriptures which tell us that we return to the dust when we die, this is not nearly enough evidence to believe in a conscious spirit living inside of us.

    So I wouldn't call this an anomaly, but rather a somewhat difficult scripture.

    The spiritual body of 1 Corinthians 15 is a result of the resurrection / transformation. As Paul makes clear, first comes the natural, then the spiritual. First we are made as natural bodies, then (at the resurrection) we will be raised as spiritual bodies.

    Did I say that? I don't believe I said that. Jesus was transformed obviously upon his resurrection, just as we will be transformed as Paul describes in 1 Corinthians 15.

    My point is that we do not become spirits until the resurrection, as that is the whole point of the resurrection. We do not have immortal, conscious spirits living inside of us right now. If we did, then what would be the point of the resurrection?
     
  5. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,924
    Christian
    Single

    May I assure you, my friend, our bodies are made up of body, spirit and soul, as the Bible tel us and what I previously posted for you. FYI, God is also Spirit, as recorded in Jn.4:25 and 2 Cor.3:17-18.


    Qusar92
     
  6. LastSeven

    LastSeven Amil Supporter

    +997
    Canada
    Christian
    Married
    But I've already shown you that the Bible doesn't say that.

    The Bible says we are dust and to dust we will return. It also says that when we received the breath of life, we became living souls which is no different than a living animal. See we don't have souls, we are souls. King Solomon even said that man has no advantage over animals. When we die, we go to the same place as the animals, which is the dust of the earth.

    Also a "spirit" is the breath of life, not a conscious ghostly entity. Look it up.

    That's what the Bible says, so with all due respect, I'll take my assurances from the Bible thanks.
     
  7. def

    def Member Supporter

    500
    +48
    Australia
    Christian
    Married
    Agree, a spirit is the breath of life.

    When a believer is baptised with the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit gives life to the spirit (breath of life) - a second birth occurs, born again. Flesh gives life to the flesh, the Spirit gives life to the spirit. The spirit lives. The spirit of the just (those justified) enters the kingdom of God to be made perfect (Hebrews 12:23).
     
Loading...