What happens to a Muslim...

[ClementofA]

What happens to a Muslim...who would have believed the gospel if he had ever heard it, but who died in unbelief? Is he lost forever? Or is there after death salvation for him upon hearing the gospel postmortem?

What about those in the Americas & Orient, for examples, around 100 AD, 500 AD & 1000 AD who would have believed the gospel if they had ever heard it, but who died in unbelief? Are they lost forever? Or is there after death salvation for them upon hearing the gospel postmortem?

How many gospel preachers, if any, were there in those areas at those times? And in other parts of the globe?


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[Sketcher]

What happens to a Muslim...who would have believed the gospel if he had ever heard it, but who died in unbelief? Is he lost forever? Or is there after death salvation for him upon hearing the gospel postmortem?

Funny you say that, since Islam conditions people against the Gospel, it's built right into their faith in strawman form. There have also been reports of God intervening in Muslims' daily prayers and showing them that the Christian message is the correct one.

But let's say that a Muslim would have believed if he had only heard it presented by a Christian, but that never happened, and he never had a divine encounter in his daily prayers.

God may allow for a presentation of the Gospel after he dies, but we don't know that he does that. If he would do something of the sort, I would think the recipient would have a fair chance to accept or reject it, rather than providing an obvious, no-brainer choice. Otherwise, killing unbelievers would be a more efficient way of getting them into Heaven, and God doesn't want us to do that.

 

[mkgal1]

Funny you say that, since Islam conditions people against the Gospel, it's built right into their faith in strawman form.

Some Muslims actually preach the Gospel. Here's some evidence of that:

 

[Albion]

What happens to a Muslim...who would have believed the gospel if he had ever heard it, but who died in unbelief? Is he lost forever? Or is there after death salvation for him upon hearing the gospel postmortem?


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There are Christians who believe everyone will be saved sooner or later.

However, I don't know anyone who thinks that accepting Christ or rejecting Him is a choice offered after death to be followed by that soul saying "yes" or "no."

If a non-believer is saved, the thinking is that it's either because he was "covered" without knowing it while still alive in the flesh or else just because everyone is saved as a matter of course.

 

[Jonaitis]

What happens to a Muslim...who would have believed the gospel if he had ever heard it, but who died in unbelief? Is he lost forever? Or is there after death salvation for him upon hearing the gospel postmortem?

If a sinner dies apart from Christ, they end up in hell.

God does not owe anyone the gospel, that is a gift for the undeserving. God has every right to punish sinners, however. We all deserve hell, we all deserve God's wrath for our life of sin. If a Muslim dies without Christ, they die as the atheist does. He did not deserve mercy, for if he did then mercy wouldn't be mercy, but what is due.

 

[JIMINZ]

Heb. 9:27
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

There are no do overs, and nobody can say they didn't know.

 

[ClementofA]

If a sinner dies apart from Christ, they end up in hell.

God does not owe anyone the gospel, that is a gift for the undeserving. God has every right to punish sinners, however. We all deserve hell, we all deserve God's wrath for our life of sin. If a Muslim dies without Christ, they die as the atheist does. He did not deserve mercy, for if he did then mercy wouldn't be mercy, but what is due.

Do aborted babies go to hell?

 

[ClementofA]

Heb. 9:27
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

There are no do overs, and nobody can say they didn't know.

Didn't know what? The gospel in this life?

Re Heb.9:27, would not the Judge know if a person would have believed during their life, but didn't because they never heard? Will the Saviour judge such (who would have believed while alive) to hell?

 

[Tolworth John]

Didn't know what? The gospel in this life?

Re Heb.9:27, would not the Judge know if a person would have believed during their life, but didn't because they never heard? Will the Saviour judge such (who would have believed while alive) to hell?

Or is there after death salvation for them upon hearing the gospel postmortem?

Romans 1:18-22, god's eternal power is clearly seen in creation so they are without excuse.

Sin is not a light issue, it is a great offence against God, against his rule and against his rights.
God is perfectly just in All his actions and in confirming sinners to hell he is perfectly just.
He did not have to sacrifice his son to save anyone, that he did send his son is a result of his mercy and grace.

I take it that you are active in supporting missionary work to Islamic countries!

 

[JIMINZ]

Didn't know what? The gospel in this life?

Re Heb.9:27, would not the Judge know if a person would have believed during their life, but didn't because they never heard? Will the Saviour judge such (who would have believed while alive) to hell?

Put it this way, have you heard the Gospel of Muhammad, about Islam?

What if that is the truth and what you believe is just because you were raised where the Gospel of Christ is all you ever heard, would you go to hell?

Does it take a person to person encounter with a Christian for a Muslim to Believe in Christ?

 

[JIMINZ]

Do aborted babies go to hell?

NO!

Why because they were aborted?

 

[Der Alte]

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What happens to a Muslim...who would have believed the gospel if he had ever heard it, but who died in unbelief? Is he lost forever? Or is there after death salvation for him upon hearing the gospel postmortem?
What about those in the Americas & Orient, for examples, around 100 AD, 500 AD & 1000 AD who would have believed the gospel if they had ever heard it, but who died in unbelief? Are they lost forever? Or is there after death salvation for them upon hearing the gospel postmortem?

The convert: Why I left Islam to follow Jesus - Premier"[/url]

 

[mkgal1]

As Wm Paul Young says in this clip (paraphrased) "God crawls into the boxes we create with our religions and blows them up from the inside out, revealing Himself".

 

[1213]

What happens to a Muslim...who would have believed the gospel if he had ever heard it, but who died in unbelief? Is he lost forever? ...

Bible tells eternal life is for righteous.

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23

It is possible that person who has not heard of Jesus can be counted righteous by this:

For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without the law. As many as have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. For it isn't the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law will be justified (for when Gentiles who don't have the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience testifying with them, and their thoughts among themselves accusing or else excusing them) in the day when God will judge the secrets of men, according to my gospel, by Jesus Christ.
Romans 2:12-16

 

[Francis Drake]

From my experience, Christians tend to hold the erroneous view that all references to God in the Old Testament were about the Father, whereas in the New Testament we suddenly find God the son making his appearance.
In many ways, this separation leads directly to the OP dilemma.

What does scripture say?

John1v1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was in the beginning with God. 3All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5And the Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

Jesus is the "Word of God" according to scripture, and as the above states, it was the "Word", aka Jesus, who created all things.
It was Jesus, as Lord God who walked with Adam in the Garden of Eden.

Jesus is the one who led the tribe of Israel out of captivity in Egypt.
1Cor4v1Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, 2all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, 3all ate the same spiritual food, 4and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ.

As we see, Jesus Christ walked and counselled Moses through all his journeys.

So when Jesus, the man, talked with the disciples about their faith in the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, he was talking about their faith in himself, even though they didn't yet understand it.

Paul clarifies it even further.
Romans1v18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
To suppress the truth, you first need to possess it, as indeed all men do!

19because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them.
And they possess that truth of God, because God always reveals himself to every man woman and child in the deep recesses of the heart, completely bypassing the intellect.

20For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made,
God's invisible nature is seen and understood by every one on the planet.

even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,
It is a total lie for anyone to plead ignorance, when the spirit of God is revealed in every heart.

This revelation of the creator God has nothing to do with any religion, including Christianity. It is a work of the Holy Spirit convicting the heart of man. Man's response to the call of God is his own choice, and always will be!

 

[mkgal1]

This revelation of the creator God has nothing to do with any religion, including Christianity. It is a work of the Holy Spirit convicting the heart of man. Man's response to the call of God is his own choice, and always will be!

Well said.

 

[ClementofA]

Romans 1:18-22, god's eternal power is clearly seen in creation so they are without excuse.

Rom.2:9There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil, first for the Jew, then for the Greek; 10but glory, honor, and peace for everyone who does good, first for the Jew, then for the Greek. 11For God does not show favoritism.

14Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15since they show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts either accusing or defending them. 16This will come to pass on that day when God will judge men’s secrets through Christ Jesus, as proclaimed by my gospel.

Here we read of those who "do by nature what the law requires" (v.14). If unbelievers can do that & would have accepted the gospel, but died in unbelief, shall they be sent to hell to be tortured forever? Or hear the gospel postmortem & obtain after death salvation?

Sin is not a light issue, it is a great offence against God, against his rule and against his rights.

Js. 4:17 If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn't do it, it is sin for them.

So if one is in ignorance, it is not "sin for them"?

John 9:41
"If you were blind," Jesus replied, "you would not be guilty of sin. But since you claim you can see, your guilt remains."

John 15:22
If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin. Now, however, they have no excuse for their sin.

John 15:24
If I had not done among them the works that no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin; but now they have seen and hated both Me and My Father.

Lk.23:34 Then Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.” And they divided up His garments by casting lots.

Mk.3:28 Truly I say to you that all sins and blasphemies will be forgiven the sons of men, as many as they shall have blasphemed.

God is perfectly just in All his actions and in confirming sinners to hell he is perfectly just.

If endless conscious torments were true, is God a monster?

He did not have to sacrifice his son to save anyone, that he did send his son is a result of his mercy and grace.

IMO Love Omnipotent did have to because of at least several reasons: (1) His word said He would & He cannot lie or break His promises & (2) this was His will before the foundation of the world & (3) He is love & (4) He is also righteous, just & good & (5) to not send His Son would be to deny Himself, what He is, which is impossible.

I take it that you are active in supporting missionary work to Islamic countries!

What sort of "missionary work" & by whom? Is the cure worse than the illness? Are the results more negative than positive? Is it led by the Holy Spirit or man's sweat?

Mt.23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

Or is this the "missionary work" you refer to:

Gal.2:10 All they asked was that we should continue to remember the poor, the very thing I had been eager to do all along

 

[ClementofA]

Does it take a person to person encounter with a Christian for a Muslim to Believe in Christ?

It always takes a personal encounter with Christ to believe in Christ, whether the person recognizes it as such or not. However if a Christian is not required for an unbeliever to believe in Him, then is preaching the gospel even necessary?

 

[Tolworth John]

What sort of "missionary work

You are concerned for Muslims. How are you going to evangelize and teach them?
Talk to your minister and to who ever is in charge of your churches missionary committee and get there advice about which society you should support.

) His word said He would

Yes his word say he would. But he didn't have to say that, right back in genesis he could have pronounced judgement on all of Adam's sinful descendents and he would have been just.

 

[Hawkins]

Law and covenants have the overlapping effects.

1) Law (valid all the times and is applicable to both angels and humans)
We are all sinners under this universal set of Law.

2) First covenant to humans brought by Noah
We are all judged by the conscience given to each of us. This overlaps with the Law in one. That is, one can be righteous but a sinner at the same time. At the same time, no one can be righteous as judged by 1). though righteous people (such as Noah and his family) exist according to 2).

3) A series of covenants granted to the Jews.
The last is the Mosaic covenant. Jews are demanded to observe the Mosaic covenant. This overlaps with both 1) and 2). The Jews are also sinners even under the circumstance that they can fully observe the Mosaic laws. They also need to follow their conscience to act.

4) New Covenant
Gentile Christians need to follow 1), 2) and 4) to act. They are not under Law in a sense that they are the righteous in the Final Judgment as they are no longer be judged by Law. They are at the same time sinners in a sense when measured by Law. They also need to follow conscience to act.

Can Muslim be righteous when judged by conscience as gentiles? Noah married only one wife. It is a double whether God would accept multiple wives in a covenant applicable to gentiles. God accepts the Jews who took over widows of their own brothers. There is still the same doubt whether God fully accepts multiple wives. Abraham belongs to another category, as God accepts multiple wives during the critical period of time that the Jews need to extend their descendants. The same happened to Adam and the first lineage of humans. Humans have multiple wives for the only purpose of extending descendants in critical times. However when population is no longer an issue, it's a doubt that God allows multiple wives by His covenants. This means the Muslim dogmas may not be fully aligned with the covenants God has for the gentiles.

In a nutshell, what Jesus won from the hands of Law is a subjective judgment carried out by God Himself. It is a fair judgment by taking everything into consideration. It is however not without a standard. The common standard is a covenant under which a scope of humans is nominated.