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what happens after death, possiblity

Discussion in 'Non-denominational' started by Achichem, Aug 31, 2003.

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  1. Achichem

    Achichem Faithful

    +53
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    Ok, first I would like to say this is an interpretation, I am not in anyway claming this to be fact just a possibility. So please take it as such, do your own research and use it to form your own opinions.

    Second, I would appreciate if no one replies in any full 10 page rebuttals, please only ask questions or make comments with a max in mind of 10 question at one time. This is a large topic and covers many areas, your question(s) may have just been left out by accident, so be patient and thanks for taking the time out of your day to read some or all of my post.

    On this topic of what the bible teaches of what happens after death, I will go over a range of topics all important to the understanding of this alternative view!

    • Heaven and hell Logical?
    • Bible teaching on if everyone has an immortal soul.
    • Re-look at hell
    • Heaven At death?
    • If no heaven or hell then what?
    • Three resurrections including a second chance

    Heaven and hell Logical?

    If one looks at the fruits of Jesus and the fruits of the saints, and knows that they will judge all people, do you really think that it would be in those fruits to not accept people or send to an eternal hell people, that never knew the truth, if they were truly willing to learn?

    Then take our concept of heaven, it would be nice and all to think that when we die we go straight up to the father in heaven but is this supported? For if we were to go up to heaven at death, then why does no where in the bible tell us what we are going to do there! And even mainstream Idea of what we would do there are illogical, giving us no purpose and living a life we would call here of a slobs, red neck or lazy, looking down upon such life styles! Would our loving father let us do this an eternity?

    Or hell, our father tells us to love our enemies, would this same God go and burn in an eternal hell pit all the souls that both did not know him or against him, keep in mind this would be most of the world throughout the entire lifetime of humanity!

    Bible teaching on if everyone has an immortal soul

    many assume that the soul is immortal, but this does not come from the bible?
    For in the OT, the word soul (nephesh) is used over a 100 times! Does in any of these it teach that it is immortal? Or even that we get judge at death? No rather it teaches quite the opposite.

    The New Testament also teaches this very same point, watch closely to what is said:

    Note the contrast, in these statements

    Re-look at hell

    Remember this is the God:
    and who wants

    First the Old uses three hells like three heavens, as with heaven old one palce assume the role of what it is we figure it to be, a place for the dead.

    In the bible for hell, there are 4 words:

    Sheol (Hebrew) and Hades (Greek) but though many assumption and ideas come about by many philosophers especially the Greek about this place, one thing is clear, it is a place for the dead, nothing more!

    For an example see Psalm 16:10 for an example of how this place was used

    Clearly this only means grave or in a state of dead! We know that all will rise but why not what happens in this Sheol, form just the bible!

    In the New Testament the Greek word (tartaroo) is used once and translated to hell in 2 peter 2:4

    Tartaroo means to confine in tartartos, which was a Greek abyss where rebel gods were confined.

    So I would think Peter is clearly talking about Satans angels and no one else!

    In the New Testament the Greek word gehenna is also translated to hell, yet that is not what gehenna refers to.

    Gehenna comes from the Hebrew word ge-hinnom which was also called vally of hinnom or in other words the Jerusalem city dump where they throw all the dead bodies and were there was a fire that burn there to destroy the garbage!

    this word is translated to hell in

    Notice the quotations they are from Isaiah 66:24

    And example of unquenched fire:

    Matthew 10:28 was also Gehenna fire

    Most likely refers to:

    And was mention because God will burn the Soul lost out of existence!

    Out of existence?

    Does not this sound more like the God David was referring:


    Heaven At death?
    No one went before Jesus:

    The only other way I can see people to construe such would be:
    Yet, he knew that the either way this would be true, because the way I explain his next waking moment would be with Christ!
     
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  2. Achichem

    Achichem Faithful

    +53
    Messianic
    In Relationship
    US-Libertarian
    If no Heaven or Hell then what?
    Parallel to sleep:

    Death is compare to sleep by many figures of the bible; Paul explains this is because we believe in the resurrection of the dead.

    Paul clearing makes the concept of people raising from the dead a doctrine of true Christianity. So we must believe that all people could be resurrected.

    But now who compares all death to sleep? I will take a few:

    Paul:

    more can be found at 1 Corinthians 15:6,18,20,51

    also

    Peter:

    Jesus:

    more can be found at Matthew 9:24, John 11:11,13

    What about the old prophets?


    We could also construe:

    Also job thinks so:

    But how do we know everyone gets a resurrection:

    When is this set to happen:
    Why would we be judged twice? Why would we need to be judged at death?

    Three resurrections including a second chance

    First resurrection:

    The resurrection of those who are called now-the ones Paul referred to as firstfruits-is further described in the 20th chapter of Revelation.

    Let's notice how John describes that resurrection of the firstfruits: "I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshipped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection" (Revelation 20:4-5, NIV).

    Notice that some are resurrected at the beginning of the 1,000-year reign of Christ-at "the first resurrection." The use of the term first shows that at least one more resurrection must follow.

    Another resurrection:
    That same verse explains, "The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended." There is another resurrection after the first, and in this resurrection others will have the opportunity to receive salvation. They will be called to understand God's truth and His plan during a period sometimes referred to as the "great white throne" judgment (verse 11).

    This time of judgment is further described in verse 12: "And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books."

    Those resurrected in this group have never completely understood the truth of God. Consider that the majority of all people who have ever lived have never heard God's truth. Rather than such people being condemned to eternal suffering in a fiery hell, the truth of the Bible is much more comforting and encouraging. God will extend the opportunity for eternal life to everyone-to a relatively few in this age but to billions of people in the coming second resurrection.

    Judgment is much more than a final decision to reward or condemn. Judgment is a process that takes place over time before a final decision is rendered. Those brought to a temporary, physical life again in this resurrection (see Ezekiel 37:1-14) will, for the first time, have their minds opened to the truth of God's plan. They will have the opportunity to decide whether they will accept and follow God's instruction or not. After coming to see the truth, they will be judged according to their response to their new understanding. Many will accept that truth, repent and receive God's gift of eternal life.

    Do not forget this is not unconceivable remember the parable, could it have deeper meaning:

    Past generations resurrected together

    Jesus spoke of this time when He said even the sinners of the long-destroyed city of Sodom would have the opportunity to repent in a future judgment. As He sent His disciples out on a mission to preach the gospel (Matthew 10:9-14), He told them that some they would encounter would reject their message. Of these Jesus said, "Assuredly, I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city" (verse 15).

    That there is room for tolerance in that day toward Sodom and Gomorrah shows they will have opportunity to repent and enter God's Kingdom. This is because, when they formerly lived, they either never had opportunity to know God or His way or never fully understood what they heard. The time for their calling and judgment is yet future. This is not a second chance for salvation. This will be their first chance-their first opportunity to act on a clear understanding of God's truth.
    In a similar example, Jesus said the long-dead people of the ancient Assyrian city of Nineveh and the biblical "queen of the South" from Solomon's time would rise alongside those from Christ's generation. The people from those generations had lived and died many centuries earlier, never having understood the true God or His plan to offer eternal life through His Son Jesus the Messiah.
    ]
    That God will offer salvation to all who lived and died in all ages without ever really knowing Him shows His great mercy toward all people. God does not show partiality (Romans 2:11). He calls all at the time that is appropriate for them, and all eventually will be given the same wonderful opportunity to receive His gift of salvation.

    Evidence of a third resurrection

    Other scriptures indicate that a third group will be resurrected just before the final destruction of the wicked in the lake of fire.

    Jesus explained that some would deliberately and knowingly despise the spiritual revelations that God would open their minds to understand. These, He said, will not be forgiven "either in this age or in the age to come" (Matthew 12:31-32).

    Yet "all who are in the graves will hear [Christ's] voice and come forth ..." (John 5:28). Even those who will not be forgiven are to be resurrected from the dead.
    This group will include only those who have deliberately rejected God's way of life even after they have been "once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit" (Hebrews 6:4-6). These few are people

    who were once forgiven and converted but later chose to reject the Holy Spirit and priceless knowledge God gave to them.

    Because they "trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace," for them "there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries" (Hebrews 10:26-29).

    God has revealed that the ultimate fate of the incorrigibly wicked is to be burned up. "'For behold, the day is coming, burning like an oven, and all the proud, yes, all who do wickedly will be stubble. And the day which is coming shall burn them up,' says the LORD of hosts, 'That will leave them neither root nor branch'" (Malachi 4:1).

    Therefore destruction in the lake of fire (Revelation 20:13-14) must include those few who stubbornly refused to repent of their own self-willed rebellion in spite of all the opportunities God made available to them.
    When all this is finished we read: "Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death" (verse 14). The judgment of God is complete. Those who are saved will never again have to fear death.


    I look forward to question,
    No I am not ready to fully debate this topic,
    Thank you for your time,
    God bless,
    DaTsar
     
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