What function does the Holy Spirit have in the hearts of believers?

[Francis Drake]

I've heard the Holy Spirit speak many times, sometimes an incredibly quiet whisper, occasionally a distinct voice in my ear. Sometimes loud enough to wake me from sleep.

Its not always clear whether its God or my imagination. But thankfully, my heavenly Father is still teaching me to listen, and has been doings so for nearly 60 years.

Hearing God's voice has been a wonderful experience. It has on occasion even saved my live. Mostly it is about his caring fatherhood, directing my path at work or home.

He has given me revelations by vision or dreams for fixing machinery. He has told me what businesses to buy. He led my wife to me by word of knowledge. He has on several occasions told us which house to buy.

The list is endless of his sovereign interventions in my life.

There are times when I have completely misinterpreted his direction, but He always enables me to extract myself from the holes I fall into.

I thank God that he has not left us fatherless. He didn't just toss a book of instructions and expect us to learn it. What sort of father would do that and then walk away in silence.

 

[ilovejcsog]

Carl being a wise and humble poster, this seems to be a good place to ask this question. Hope this doesn't take your thread off topic. Nice to see you posting
What is the difference between the Holy spirit and a conscience? If they are the same it would be easy to know when a person isn't Christian if they have no conscience. I know a few that have none.

 

[HardHead]

this thread is not primarily about gifts,

that the pastoral staff flew in missionaries with many years of experience dealing with possession and such to assist in understanding what was genuine or not.

This is very interesting.

Could you provide more information on this or perhaps start a new thread on this topic to discuss this a bit more?

 

[Francis Drake]

Carl being a wise and humble poster, this seems to be a good place to ask this question. Hope this doesn't take your thread off topic. Nice to see you posting
What is the difference between the Holy spirit and a conscience? If they are the same it would be easy to know when a person isn't Christian if they have no conscience. I know a few that have none.

I believe we all have a conscience, whether born again or not.
I also believe the conscience is a part of our human spirit and is where the spirit of God speaks.

People might say something like this, "You know in your heart that xyz is a lie."
Alternatively we might say, " In my conscience I knew it was a lie."

It is the conscience or heart where we are convicted of sin or righteousness. However, the conscience can be damaged, or as scripture tells us, seared with a hot iron. It then become desensitised.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Carl being a wise and humble poster, this seems to be a good place to ask this question. Hope this doesn't take your thread off topic. Nice to see you posting
What is the difference between the Holy spirit and a conscience? If they are the same it would be easy to know when a person isn't Christian if they have no conscience. I know a few that have none.

FD covered this nicely... Thanks for the question.

Unbelievers have a conscience and by this they are judged (Rom 2:15)

 

[HardHead]

I believe we all have a conscience, whether born again or not.

Do you see baptism having an impact or a role in defining what this conscience is? In your view, does baptism directly impart anything to a person's soul, or is this idea of a conscience only in the heart (or mind) so to speak?

I'm asking this with regards to the action of the Holy Spirit in the baptism, so I'm guessing its on topic for the tread.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Do you see baptism having an impact or a role in defining what this conscience is? In your view, does baptism directly impart anything to a person's soul, or is this idea of a conscience only in the heart (or mind) so to speak?

I'm asking this with regards to the action of the Holy Spirit in the baptism, so I'm guessing its on topic for the tread.

Interesting question - not really sure.

Might be a good topic for another thread?

What I find interesting about baptism is that from the perspective of those outside the faith it is perceived as the defining moment that one is a Christian rather than Rebirth.

Doctors wanting to work in Saudi were required to be baptised before they would be hired.

Excommunication from family in Asia is at the point of Baptism.

I view Baptism as a renounciation so it has serious spiritual effect.

 

[HardHead]

I view Baptism as a renounciation so it has serious spiritual effect.

It is about renouncing as you say but it is also about acceptance and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. I can't see how this has no impact on someones heart and mind. For me its also about the soul and its interaction with the heart in some manner.

 

[Carl Emerson]

It is about renouncing as you say but it is also about acceptance and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. I can't see how this has no impact on someones heart and mind. For me its also about the soul and its interaction with the heart in some manner.

Maybe someone will chip in and throw more light on this...

 

[Anguspure]

Okay, but that doesn't explain why you disagree with my post.

Clearly I disagree with your question: "So are you saying that the Holy Spirit guided you into the set of doctrines you subscribe to, but everyone who doesn't share your beliefs was given the same guidance but stubbornly refused to obey it?"

I do not subscribe to doctrines. I endeavor to submit to Him. Others who have come to believe other things my have been given guidance or not. They may have chosen to ignore or not. The Spirit may have His own reasons for guiding them one way and me another. Who knows. As long as they are all moving towards Him, from whatever point of the compass, then clearly they are following Him.

 

[swordsman1]

Clearly I disagree with your question: "So are you saying that the Holy Spirit guided you into the set of doctrines you subscribe to, but everyone who doesn't share your beliefs was given the same guidance but stubbornly refused to obey it?"

I do not subscribe to doctrines. I endeavor to submit to Him. Others who have come to believe other things my have been given guidance or not. They may have chosen to ignore or not. The Spirit may have His own reasons for guiding them one way and me another. Who knows. As long as they are all moving towards Him, from whatever point of the compass, then clearly they are following Him.

I was referring to you disagreeing with my original post - the Holy Spirit cannot be not internally guiding us into all truth because we all have conflicting doctrines and beliefs. All you said by way of explanation was the Spirit might say "you can lead a horse to water". By which I presumed you meant the Holy Spirit guides all believers the same way but some refuse to follow that guidance hence the different doctrines. So if that's not it, what did you mean?

 

[Anguspure]

I was referring to you disagreeing with my original post - the Holy Spirit cannot be not internally guiding us into all truth because we all have conflicting doctrines and beliefs. All you said by way of explanation was the Spirit might say "you can lead a horse to water". By which I presumed you meant the Holy Spirit guides all believers the same way but some refuse to follow that guidance hence the different doctrines. So if that's not it, what did you mean?

In that case, yes. I have caught myself in this position on a number of occasions, where the Spirit was leading me, at least trying to lead me, and I headed off in another direction.
All people who are in Christ have this sort of leading available to them, to a greater or lesser degree (according to what the Spirit sees fit) but there are many things that can get in the way as well, that would stop a person from hearing.

Then as for leading a horse to water, the Spirit can lead and even be heard clearly. He may even arrange for circumstances to push the person along. But if the individual is unwilling then what can He do?

But I don't think this is so much about doctrinal truth as such (although it may concern these things), I think the Spirit is more concerned with relational truth. It matters little what doctrines a person holds whether true or not, if they are not in good relationship with Yeshua and with the Church, then they are in trouble.

 

[Anguspure]

Carl being a wise and humble poster, this seems to be a good place to ask this question. Hope this doesn't take your thread off topic. Nice to see you posting
What is the difference between the Holy spirit and a conscience? If they are the same it would be easy to know when a person isn't Christian if they have no conscience. I know a few that have none.

I always thought that it was something else. We have a conscience before we are saved and then we listen to the Spirit afterwards.
This would seem to explain why it is that apostate believers often become so devoid of any conscience or Spirit and so fall off the rails in a big way.

 

[swordsman1]

In that case, yes. I have caught myself in this position on a number of occasions, where the Spirit was leading me, at least trying to lead me, and I headed off in another direction.
All people who are in Christ have this sort of leading available to them, to a greater or lesser degree (according to what the Spirit sees fit) but there are many things that can get in the way as well, that would stop a person from hearing.

Then as for leading a horse to water, the Spirit can lead and even be heard clearly. He may even arrange for circumstances to push the person along. But if the individual is unwilling then what can He do?

But I don't think this is so much about doctrinal truth as such (although it may concern these things), I think the Spirit is more concerned with relational truth. It matters little what doctrines a person holds whether true or not, if they are not in good relationship with Yeshua and with the Church, then they are in trouble.

The Holy Spirit is not that concerned about doctrinal truth? - I find that hard to believe.
It matters little what doctrines a person holds? - Really, false doctrines are ok?

So He will tell believers how to fix a machine, which house to buy, etc, but He refuses to tell them the correct doctrines of Christianity and so stop all the strife and arguments, schisms, and dangerous heresies?

Guiding into all truth certainly sounds like doctrine to me. Truth being the opposite of falsehood.

 

[Carl Emerson]

I think if you look at his post carefully He didn't say what you are claiming...

If I understand correctly, he was trying to say that with a personal wise friend within you caring about how you walk, His nudges will be related to keeping you on a path of Blessing.

He did not say doctrine doesn't matter or that He doesn't care about it.

It does come back to what I have said many times though - you can have a perfect understanding of the roadmap but not experience His advice on how and when to walk.

 

[Carl Emerson]

I notice looking in Acts 9 that Ananias was spoken to by God and even performed an outstanding miracle without being an appointed Apostle. He was an 'ordinary' disciple but open and obedient to His Living Word Within.
Surely there is a prevailing mindset that only those with a church appointing, an apostolic anointing or special gifts can do as Jesus did. We seem so intent to formulate and control that we dismiss and even dishonour anyone else, and make sure they stay firmly glued to the pews.
This is partly why I opened this thread to hopefully bring ordinary folk to understand that with Him resident inside, coupled with surrender and obedience there is a world of blessing waiting as we hear His word and obey. We have much more potential to bring Him Glory than we have been led to believe. This is a call to walk in 'the Way' - Christianity was not meant to be a spectator sport. You have the anointing - walk in it.

 

[Anguspure]

The Holy Spirit is not that concerned about doctrinal truth? - I find that hard to believe.
It matters little what doctrines a person holds? - Really, false doctrines are ok?

So He will tell believers how to fix a machine, which house to buy, etc, but He refuses to tell them the correct doctrines of Christianity and so stop all the strife and arguments, schisms, and dangerous heresies?

Guiding into all truth certainly sounds like doctrine to me. Truth being the opposite of falsehood.

The more important truth when it comes to the meaning of life the universe and everything is relational truth and The Truth is Love.

This Truth is not some abstract doctrine that stands irrespective of action. This Truth created us and died for us all, He rose from the dead. All other truth is superfluous compared to Him and having the very best doctrinal knowledge is completely irrelevant if we are not in relationship with Him following Him. Conversely there are those who have some very heretical views who serve Him beautifully and display all of the fruit of the Spirit in their lives.

He may well decline to reveal some doctrine to a person for a time in order to serve His purposes, bringing His Love to the world in a particular situation. That is His prerogative.

If I speak in the tongues a of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing. 1 Corinthians 13

 

[HardHead]

very best doctrinal knowledge is completely irrelevant if we are not in relationship with Him following Him.

In my opinion, this is exactly why purely academic work on biblical matters, as perhaps done by non-believers, is of lower value than similar work done by Christians. 'Lower' here is relative to a believer's need to express the truth of God.

 

[Anguspure]

I think if you look at his post carefully He didn't say what you are claiming...

If I understand correctly, he was trying to say that with a personal wise friend within you caring about how you walk, His nudges will be related to keeping you on a path of Blessing.

He did not say doctrine doesn't matter or that He doesn't care about it.

It does come back to what I have said many times though - you can have a perfect understanding of the roadmap but not experience His advice on how and when to walk.

Hi Carl. My thinking is this: Doctrinal "truth" that holds itself as more important than the Love and Unity of the Church is in the wrong place.

The central Truth of all human questions and answers is in Christ Yeshua. He himself is the truth and He calls us not to be 100% accurate in our doctrine and thinking, rather He calls us to Trust and Love like a little child.

How many little kids have everything sorted out on an intellectual basis? Even the smartest of them have some funny ideas that need to be ironed out in time. But it is all irrelevant compared to the far greater call to Love and Unity in the Church.

Does Yeshua say: "You will be known for your doctrinal accuracy."?

No! He does not (and we all know how wrong the Apostles where in their doctrinal understanding even after 3 years with the Master)!

Rather He says: “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” John 13


The Truth that the Spirit leads us into may well be doctrinal when it is appropriate but I believe that the primary Truth He leads us towards is Yeshua, and sometimes for the time being at least, that is enough.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Amen...