What exactly is "Christian Mysticism"?

Open Heart

Well-Known Member
Aug 3, 2014
18,521
4,393
62
Southern California
✟49,214.00
Country
United States
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Celibate
The Desert Fathers, which I think has an Eastern Orthodox origin and also Theresa of Avila, St. John of the Cross. I think these people discovered that it is easier to communicate with God, if we don't use too much left brain, our logical thoughts. That our creative, non-dualistic side has more potential to let God speak to us and vice versa.
Great description.
 
Upvote 0

Open Heart

Well-Known Member
Aug 3, 2014
18,521
4,393
62
Southern California
✟49,214.00
Country
United States
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Celibate
Benedictine monks could be viewed as Christian mystics because they practise lectio divina every day. (prayerful reflection of the Gospel)
You can't make someone into a mystic. It's their natural state -- they either are or they are not. Just like you can't do anything to make a mystical experience happen--it comes when it comes.
 
Upvote 0

Godlovesmetwo

Fringe Catholic
Mar 16, 2016
10,398
7,257
Antwerp
✟17,860.00
Country
Djibouti
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Others
You can't make someone into a mystic. It's their natural state -- they either are or they are not. Just like you can't do anything to make a mystical experience happen--it comes when it comes.
Just going by the wiki definition, that's all
 
Upvote 0

Open Heart

Well-Known Member
Aug 3, 2014
18,521
4,393
62
Southern California
✟49,214.00
Country
United States
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Celibate
Just going by the wiki definition, that's all
I use William James well known defining qualities of mystical experiences:

1. Ineffability - The handiest of the marks by which I classify a state of mind as mystical is negative. The subject of it immediately says that it defies expression, that no adequate report of its contents can be given in words.

2. Noetic Quality - Although so similar to states of feeling, mystical states seem to those who experience them to be also states of knowledge. They are states of insight into depths of truth unplumbed by the discurssive intellect. They are illuminations, revelations, full of significance and importance, all inarticulate though they remain; and as a rule they carry with them a curious sense of authority for aftertime.

3. Transiency - Mystical states cannot be sustained for long.

4. Passivity - Although the oncoming of mystical states may be facilitated by preliminary voluntary operations, as by fixing the attention, or going through certain bodily performances, or in other ways which manuals of mysticism prescribe; yet when the characteristic sort of consciousness once has set in, the mystic feels as if his own will were in abeyance, and indeed sometimes as if he were grasped and held by a superior power.

Mysticism Defined by William James
 
Upvote 0

Godlovesmetwo

Fringe Catholic
Mar 16, 2016
10,398
7,257
Antwerp
✟17,860.00
Country
Djibouti
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Others
Christian mysticism refers to the development of mystical practices and theory within Christianity. It has often been connected to mystical theology, especially in the Roman Catholic and Orthodox Christianity (both the Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox traditions).

The attributes and means by which Christian mysticism is studied and practiced are varied. They range from ecstatic visions of the soul's mystical union with God to simple prayerful contemplation of Holy Scripture (i.e., Lectio Divina).
wiki definition again
 
Upvote 0

Godlovesmetwo

Fringe Catholic
Mar 16, 2016
10,398
7,257
Antwerp
✟17,860.00
Country
Djibouti
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Others
mys¦tic
[ˈmɪstɪk]
NOUN
mystics
(plural noun)
  1. a person who seeks by contemplation and self-surrender to obtain unity with or absorption into the Deity or the absolute, or who believes in the spiritual apprehension of truths that are beyond the intellect.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: archer75
Upvote 0

Godlovesmetwo

Fringe Catholic
Mar 16, 2016
10,398
7,257
Antwerp
✟17,860.00
Country
Djibouti
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Others
You can't make someone into a mystic. It's their natural state -- they either are or they are not. Just like you can't do anything to make a mystical experience happen--it comes when it comes.
sounds a bit elitist to me. I cant see why the average monk wouldn't be experiencing mystical states every day doing such tasks as lectio divina.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: archer75
Upvote 0

HowdyDave@

Br. Athanasy; Obl.SB (Orthodox Benedictine Oblate)
Mar 28, 2017
69
39
USA
✟14,202.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Celibate
One of the primary examples of Christian Mysticism is the Orthodox practice of Apophatic Theology, a.k.a.; "negative theology."

Apophatic theology basically tells us that God is so far above and beyond the human understanding and limitations of language, that one can only "describe God" by enumeration of what God is NOT.

e.g.; God is:
Ineffable,
Incomprehensible,
Unknowable,
Infinite,
etc.

In my 20 year search, the most concise definition of God that I have come across is:
GOD IS NOT-NOT.

While "not-not" is a negation, since it is a double negative, it is also all inclusive.

You might also want to investigate the concepts of contemplative prayer, lectio divina, and Theosis.
 
Last edited:
  • Informative
Reactions: archer75
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Open Heart

Well-Known Member
Aug 3, 2014
18,521
4,393
62
Southern California
✟49,214.00
Country
United States
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Celibate
sounds a bit elitist to me. I cant see why the average monk wouldn't be experiencing mystical states every day doing such tasks as lectio divina.
Because they don't have the kind of brain structure (personality) that is conducive to it. What you are saying is that you don't understand why anyone in the world can't be a genius if they just go to grad school, since geniuses go to grad school, or why anyone can't be Magic Johnson if they just don't go out every day and shoot hoops. We're all made differently with different gifts and talents. Why is that elitist?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Godlovesmetwo

Fringe Catholic
Mar 16, 2016
10,398
7,257
Antwerp
✟17,860.00
Country
Djibouti
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Others
you don't have to be full-time mystic to experience mystical states, is what I'm saying. In addition, Merton was considered a mystic but he didn't go round in a mystical state all the time. And he was fully developed in both sides of his brain.
 
  • Like
Reactions: archer75
Upvote 0

Open Heart

Well-Known Member
Aug 3, 2014
18,521
4,393
62
Southern California
✟49,214.00
Country
United States
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Celibate
you don't have to be full-time mystic to experience mystical states, is what I'm saying. In addition, Merton was considered a mystic but he didn't go round in a mystical state all the time. And he was fully developed in both sides of his brain.
You are correct: no one goes around in a constant mystical state. A mystic is simply someone who experiences those states.

And yes there are those who have such great minds that even their subordinate traits are exceptional.
 
Upvote 0

Ignatius the Kiwi

Dissident
Mar 2, 2013
7,029
3,750
✟287,917.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
The idea of practising any sort of Christian faith alone without a Church seems counter to the whole mystical tradition, at least within the context of the Eastern Orthodox Church. Usually those mystics have been members of monastic communities who encouraged fresh monks to submit themselves to older monks and entrust their spiritual care to them while receiving advice, confessing sins and doing the work required of them in the monastery.

So traditionally within the Eastern Church our mysticism has been closely associated with that life which seeks to die to the world and live for Christ without any compromise to the world. One of the particulars of the Eastern tradition is those who have seen a divine light or have directly seen the energy of God. There's an account within the Philokalia about a man who saw this and was overjoyed, yet he went back to an older way of life and committed terrible sins. In the end he resolved himself yet it reminds us that even those mystics within the Church who have been permitted to experience God on a different level are in danger of falling away like the rest of us.
 
Upvote 0

Godlovesmetwo

Fringe Catholic
Mar 16, 2016
10,398
7,257
Antwerp
✟17,860.00
Country
Djibouti
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Others
In the end he resolved himself yet it reminds us that even those mystics within the Church who have been permitted to experience God on a different level are in danger of falling away like the rest of us.
point well made. Also I think we forget that even canonised saints committed sin in their lives. Wasn't it Mother Theresa who was reported to be short-tempered and demanding as a leader?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Widlast

Well-Known Member
Feb 11, 2016
837
653
63
Eastern USA
✟35,523.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
point well made. Also I think we forget that even canonised saints committed sin in their lives. Wasn't it Mother Theresa who was reported to be short-tempered and demanding as a leader?
To apply Tolkien, for the saints are as wizards in being more learned and wise than the masses..
"Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger."
 
Upvote 0

Open Heart

Well-Known Member
Aug 3, 2014
18,521
4,393
62
Southern California
✟49,214.00
Country
United States
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Celibate
It appears as if some people are confusing mysticism with eremitism (being a hermit.)
Yes I think you are right. And honestly being a hermit is NOT the same thing as being a mystic. Although it is POSSIBLE for a hermit to be a mystic.

Heck I'm an extreme introvert. I stay at home and hang out on my computer. LOL
 
  • Informative
Reactions: archer75
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

HowdyDave@

Br. Athanasy; Obl.SB (Orthodox Benedictine Oblate)
Mar 28, 2017
69
39
USA
✟14,202.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Celibate
Both are the antithesis of Christianity, so does it really matter?

If that is what you think, then we have very different definitions of "Christianity," "Eremitism," and "Mysticism."
 
  • Like
Reactions: zippy2006
Upvote 0