What exactly does " Greek Orthodox " mean?

[RomanRite]

In the Eastern Orthodox Church do all Orthodox Christians consider themselves to be Greek Orthodox? For example, the OCA, Russians, Ukranians etc, since greek is the language of the Constantiople East? Or does Greek Orthodox only mean the Orthodox Churches under the Jurisdiction of Antioch?

God Bless,
RomanRite

 

[ArmyMatt]

Greek Orthodoxy is Orthodoxy that is Greek, no more than that.

 

[RomanRite]

Thank you!

 

[gzt]

In the Eastern Orthodox Church do all Orthodox Christians consider themselves to be Greek Orthodox? For example, the OCA, Russians, Ukranians etc, since greek is the language of the Constantiople East? Or does Greek Orthodox only mean the Orthodox Churches under the Jurisdiction of Antioch?

God Bless,
RomanRite

No. Greek only means the Orthodox under Greece. The ones under Antioch, at least in America, refer to themselves typically as Antiochian, not Greek.

 

[willlowbee]

Question: "What is the Eastern Orthodox Church and what are the beliefs of Orthodox Christians?"

Answer: The Eastern Orthodox Church is not a single church but rather a family of 13 self-governing bodies, denominated by the nation in which they are located (e.g., the Greek Orthodox Church, Russian Orthodox Church). They are united in their understanding of the sacraments, doctrine, liturgy, and church government, but each administers its own affairs.

 

[Constantine_Orthodox]

No. Greek only means the Orthodox under Greece. The ones under Antioch, at least in America, refer to themselves typically as Antiochian, not Greek.

It means mostly the Orthodox under the jurisdiction of Constantinople. The Church of Greece doesn 't have jurisdiction outside of Greece (not even in whole of Greece).

Sometimes the Antiochians in Syria and Lebanon are being referred as Greek Orthodox to distinguish them from the Syriac Orthodox (Oriental), but they call themselves Rum (Roman="Byzantine") Orthodox.

The Orthodox under Jerusalem and Alexandria are often referred as Greek Orthodox as well to distinguish them from the Oriental. In Jerusalem and Alexandria most of the bishops are of Greek ethnicity.

 

[RomanRite]

It means mostly the Orthodox under the jurisdiction of Constantinople. The Church of Greece doesn 't have jurisdiction outside of Greece (not even in whole of Greece).

Sometimes the Antiochians in Syria and Lebanon are being referred as Greek Orthodox to distinguish them from the Syriac Orthodox (Oriental), but they call themselves Rum (Roman="Byzantine") Orthodox.

The Orthodox under Jerusalem and Alexandria are often referred as Greek Orthodox as well to distinguish them from the Oriental. In Jerusalem and Alexandria most of the bishops are of Greek ethnicity.

Wow, never knew they actually identified as Rum Orthodox

 

[willlowbee]

Question: "What is the Eastern Orthodox Church and what are the beliefs of Orthodox Christians?"

Answer: The Eastern Orthodox Church is not a single church but rather a family of 13 self-governing bodies, denominated by the nation in which they are located (e.g., the Greek Orthodox Church, Russian Orthodox Church). They are united in their understanding of the sacraments, doctrine, liturgy, and church government, but each administers its own affairs.

You're welcome.
Why not read the link instead of playing a game with people here who act like it's this big piece by piece secret that they're really not all that willing to explain in total?

 

[RobNJ]

You're welcome.
Why not read the link instead of playing a game with people here who act like it's this big piece by piece secret that they're really not all that willing to explain in total?

1) You never mentioned that that there was larger body of information besides your quote.

2) After following that link I see the "source" is NOT an Orthodox one. And I, for one, do not try to use non-Orthodox sources of dubious pedigree to explain, or define Orthodoxy

 

[RomanRite]

1) You never mentioned that that there was larger body of information besides your quote.

2) After following that link I see the "source" is NOT an Orthodox one. And I, for one, do not try to use non-Orthodox sources of dubious pedigree to explain, or define Orthodoxy

This. Plus I never asked for the meaning of the term "Eastern Orthodox" which is the entire Church, but on the term "Greek". I was recently on a Orthodox Archdiocese website and mentioned the Orthodox Church being called the Greek Eastern Orthodox Church. Greek because of the fact its liturgical language of the Byzantine rite. This is why I was curious on how the Russians, Ukranians etc felt on this matter.

God Bless!

 

[Constantine_Orthodox]

Wow, never knew they actually identified as Rum Orthodox

Actually, all the Orthodox in the Balkans and the Near East identified themselves as Roman (Romios in Greek, Rum in Arabic and Turkish) till the end of the 19th C. With the rise of nationalism this wasn 't the case any more, allthough it didn 't disappear entirery, mostly in the Greek-speaking world. Romios means primarily Orthodox and secondary Greek-speaking, as was the case in the East Roman empire ("Byzantine").

 

[gracefullamb]

.

 

[Constantine_Orthodox]

Actually, all the Orthodox in the Balkans and the Near East identified themselves as Roman (Romios in Greek, Rum in Arabic and Turkish) till the end of the 19th C. With the rise of nationalism this wasn 't the case any more, allthough it didn 't disappear entirery, mostly in the Greek-speaking world. Romios means primarily Orthodox and secondary Greek-speaking, as was the case in the East Roman empire ("Byzantine").

Here 's a link that explains it better...

The terms Romei (Romans) and Romeika « English Words of (Unexpected) Greek Origin.

 

[buzuxi02]

There are different ways the expression can be used. First and foremost:

Those under the autocephalous Churches of Greece and Cyprus along with the jurisdictions under the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople are Greek Orthodox.


The second way it can be used is in reference to those Churches that use the Byzantine rite. This expression is one of western influence as to distinguish those churches whose roots lie in the greek speaking half of the roman empire from the latin speaking west. In Jerusalem and Antioch the term 'Roman Orthodox' is still in use. (The Turks still recognize the Patriarch of Constantinople as Rum ethnarc)

In Alexandria its used to describe the Chalcedonian 'melkite' Patriarchate as opposed to the non-chalcedonian Coptic Patriarch.

In Antioch it was used the same way, the byzantine catholics have adopted the term melkite as a moniker for themselves. Thus the Syrian Antiochan church distinguishes itself as either Greek Orthodox or Antiochan Orthodox so they are not confused with the non-chalcedonian Syriac Orthodox Church. They also retain the term Roman Orthodox and Greek Orthodox to differentiate from the melkites, aka greek catholics, aka byzantine catholics.

 

[RomanRite]

Actually, all the Orthodox in the Balkans and the Near East identified themselves as Roman (Romios in Greek, Rum in Arabic and Turkish) till the end of the 19th C. With the rise of nationalism this wasn 't the case any more, allthough it didn 't disappear entirery, mostly in the Greek-speaking world. Romios means primarily Orthodox and secondary Greek-speaking, as was the case in the East Roman empire ("Byzantine").

Wow, I'm curious if this ever caused confusion between Roman Catholics and others mistaking the Roman Orthodox for those Eastern Churches in communion with Rome.

 

[Misha777]

"Greek Orthodox" has several meanings. First, it can mean the churches under Constantinople and Athens, which are two different autocephalous (independent) Orthodox Churches. The Patriarch of Constantinople is the primate of churches under his jurisdiction, including the Greek Orthodox churches in America. The Archbishop of Athens is the primate of the Orthodox Church of Greece.

Second, "Greek Orthodox" can mean "Eastern Orthodox" in a similar vane to "Roman Catholicism". This usage is more common with the Churches of Antioch, Alexandria and Jerusalem, all of which call themselves "Greek Orthodox" (for example, the "Greek Orthodox Patriarchate of Antioch"). The reason for this is for much of their early history they were under the shadow of Constantinople which was the capital of the Eastern Roman Empire and whose leadership, though mostly self-identifying as "Roman" before the fall of Constantinople, were Greek speaking.

Third, in some other Orthodox countries such as Russia or Serbia, the "Greek/Eastern Orthodox Church" is simply called the "Russian Orthodox Church" or the "Serbian Orthodox Church".

It can be quite confusing. Before its current incarnation as the "Orthodox Church in America", the OCA was officially called the "Russian Orthodox Greek Catholic Church of America". But this was partly due to the influence of many ex-Ukrainian Catholics who converted toward the end of the 19th century.

 

[ArmyMatt]

You're welcome.
Why not read the link instead of playing a game with people here who act like it's this big piece by piece secret that they're really not all that willing to explain in total?

nice a poorly researched link and a snarky comment.

 

[Misha777]

I followed willowbee's link and am amused. I had no idea that Christianity was invented in the 16th century. But seriously . . .

 

[E.C.]

Wow, I'm curious if this ever caused confusion between Roman Catholics and others mistaking the Roman Orthodox for those Eastern Churches in communion with Rome.

In the Middle East? Probably not. The Arabic language and people are such that I'd be very surprised if they did!

The Orthodox Church of Antioch refers to her people, in Arabic, as "Rum Orthodox" whereas those of the Byzantine Rite who are under the pope in Rome call themselves "Rum Catholic", or like we do in the English-speaking world, "Melkites". In Lebanon, Syria and Palestine the people refer to themselves as Rum Orthodox or Rum Catholic.

 

[buzuxi02]

Here is an interesting excerpt from the website of an organization that seeks to promote rights among indigenous people. Regarding the Greek Orthodox of Istanbul (Constantinople):

The Rum Orthodox community comprises ethnic Rums in Istanbul, Gökçeada (Imros) and Bozcaada (Tenedos), as well as Arabic- and Turkish-speaking Antakya Rum Orthodox Christians (Antiochians) who are not ethnically Rum. Until recently, the total number of Rum Orthodox in Turkey was pronounced to be around 2,000–3,000. A recently launched research study put the number of ethnic Rums in Istanbul at 5,000. According to an official from the Rum Orthodox Patriarchate, as of 24 March 2007, the number has fallen to 4,000. In addition, there are 280 ethnic Rums in Gökçeada, 20 ethnic Rums in Bozcaada, and around 1,800 Antiochian immigrants in Istanbul. The number of Antiochians remaining in Antakya is around 10,000. Thus, there are around 16,100 Rum Orthodox Christians in Turkey. However, only 4,300 of these fall under the protection of the Treaty of Lausanne because the Turkish state does not recognize the rest as Rum Orthodox. Minority Rights Group International : Turkey : Rum Orthodox Christians


Notice how the Turkish government (and to a lesser extant the treaty of Lausanne) recognize the greeks not as ethnic greeks but as ethnic romans. In the following article from the Palestine-Israel Journal, there is an interview with the Greek Orthodox Patriarch of Jerusalem Theophilos on the problems facing the church. Here is an excerpt (vol 17, no 12 2011):

The religious significance of Jerusalem is kept a separate matter — it is simply a city of the utmost importance for the three Abrahamic faiths. The Greek Orthodox Christians, or “Rum Orthodox” as they are historically called, have had a history in Jerusalem for more than 2,000 years. As the inheritor of tradition, property and leadership, the Greek Orthodox Church aspires to play a significant role in the political future of this city. The jurisdiction of the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate, which includes more than 150,000 Christians, stretches across Israel, the Palestinian Authority (PA), including Jerusalem, and the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan.....


When the Patriarch was asked of the tension between the arab laity and the mostly greek heirarchy, this is how he responded:

There is a bigger question here. The name of the patriarchate and all Eastern Orthodox Christians locally here is “Rum.” This is how they are recognized and identified by the Muslim Arabs and Palestinians, in general. It is a matter of cultural identity or identity crisis that many people have difficulties understanding the meaning of “Rum".