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Featured What exactly did Jesus Save us from?....

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by redleghunter, May 1, 2019.

  1. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 En cuanto lo hicisteis a uno de estos mis hermanos Supporter

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    Calvin didn't actually teach that. He assumed Christ's blessing of children meant that children that died young were elected for salvation. In doing so he was just reflecting a common Christian attitude towards children and death. That's presumably a reason we still to refer to the feast commemorating Herod's slaughter of the babies in Bethlehem as the "Feast of the Holy Innocents".
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2019
  2. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Everything began with a voice, use yours Supporter

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    This reminds me of the part of the bible where it says sin is magnified by the law, and also when it is said, sin when fully grown becomes death, and also the power of the devil which is death.

    So you have it all there: The role of law in the cultivation of sin, to death, to the demonic. Tie in the Romans 7 type of sin and it's really just us being saved from ourselves.
     
  3. mark kennedy

    mark kennedy Natura non facit saltum Supporter

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    I liked some of what you said following that but wanted to address this statement. There is a sense in which wrath is imminent, coming at the day of judgment. There is also the fact that God's wrath does remain on the children of disobedience:

    “For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth.” (Romans 1:18)

    “Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.” (Ephesians 5:6)

    “Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.” (John 3:36)

    Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. Because of these, the wrath of God is coming. (Col. 3:5-6)
    The sin that brings wrath is also a curse, all by itself. We have all heard the testimonies of those who escaped the depravity of their sin nature through faith in Christ. Things like, 'suppressing the truth in unrighteousness' (Rom. 1:8). 'The wrath of God remains' (John 3:36), and of course the wrath of God at the end of the age (Col. 3:5-6). You have to ask yourself, what is sin presently costing the sinner. The suppression of the truth, the weight of guilt and foreboding, and the gnawing pain of knowing it is deserved. More importantly sometimes the worst part of a sin, is the damage the sin is doing to you right now. If we are going to have a coherent message as believers there is one reason that should outweigh the foreboding of wrath:

    But there is forgiveness with thee, that thou mayest be feared. (Psalm 130:4)
    I mean think about it, why would I fear God if I can't escape his wrath. But if there is a chance at forgiveness, that could change your attitude I think. I know it changed mine.

    Grace and peace,
    Mark
     
  4. JacksBratt

    JacksBratt Searching for Truth

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    I don't know the teachings of "Calvin" as I have not had the desire to study such a theology.

    I have no doubt that any human that does not reach a mental capacity necessary to understand and consciously grasp the concept of "right", "wrong", sin, salvation, the gospel..... will never be counted as guilty of things that they are ignorant of.

    That would erase the concept of God being Loving, gracious and merciful.

    However, I was kinda hoping for "Tree of Life" to give an answer and explanation for their way of thinking.
     
  5. RaymondG

    RaymondG Well-Known Member

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    Yes you did miss it.....but there are some who would see it.

    I answered the title of the thread.... I could refute interpretations of scriptures.. but that would only serve my own ego.....which i have no desire to do.

    There are other options besides creating objects for wrath or killing objects to prevent them from becoming objects of wrath....... One can remain celibate........Is this too hard to do to save one from the wrath that would ensue if they are born into the world?

    These are idea, by the way, that should be pondered by those who believe babies are condemned the day they are born/conceived...... And I am not one of them.
     
  6. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

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    Yes ... total destruction for the lost.
     
  7. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

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    English Standard Version
    I will make with them an everlasting covenant, that I will not turn away from doing good to them. And I will put the fear of me in their hearts, that they may not turn from me.

    God does not break His covenants, but people do .... several examples of this, one being Mt. Sinai

    here's the Greek

    phrase - so they will not

    strongs

    bilti: not, except
    Original Word: בִּלְתִּי
    Part of Speech: substantive; particle of negation; adverb; conjunction
    Transliteration: bilti
    Phonetic Spelling: (bil-tee')
    Definition: not, except
    NAS Exhaustive Concordance
    Word Origin
    from balah
    Definition
    not, except
    NASB Translation
    besides (2), except (3), except* (1), less than* (1), moreover (1), neither (1), no (15), no longer (1), no* (1), nor (2), nothing (3), other than (1), prevent* (2), so (3), stop (1), unceasing* (1), unless (3), unless* (1), until (1), without (4).
     
  8. Maria Billingsley

    Maria Billingsley Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Abraham's faith counted him righteous. Noah was a faithful servant to God and found righteous. Jesus Christ of Nazareth, I AM, is God in the flesh. He existed before the foundation of the world. He came in the flesh to save the sinner. He holds the keys to the Kingdom of God. If one is not in Christ, that name will be blotted out of the Book of Life thus thrown into the lake of fire. So yes.
     
  9. fhansen

    fhansen Oldbie

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    There are two sides to the coin. We're saved from the natural consequences (hell) of being and staying in opposition to God's will: selfish, self-righteous, sinful, proud, arrogant, haughty, rebellious, full of falsehood. But, by being reconciled, we're saved unto righteousness with the consequence of heaven: being in the presence of sheer ineffable Goodness. This is why it's so important to understand that we're not saved by faith in the sense of solely believing, as if the mere fact of belief saves us, but rather by that which faith is meant to lead to: justice/righteousness/ love-as the result of being reconciled with and establishing communion with God, as we turn back to Him, responding to His calling, to His overtures of grace. This is why Jesus came-to reconcile man with God by revealing the true "face" of the Father, by giving us the full "knowledge of God"- with every word He spoke and deed He performed- when the time was ripe, so that we may know Him, and have something to place our faith in. So faith is the first step in or act of justice for man.

    "No longer will they teach their neighbor, or say to one another, 'Know the LORD,' because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest," declares the LORD." Jer 31:34

    "Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent." John 17:3
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2019
  10. DeepWater

    DeepWater Just The Truth

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    A few things would include...

    Jesus saves us from the Law that once judged us as sinners. "you are not under the law but under Grace"
    Jesus saves us from damnation. John 3:36
    Jesus saves us from ourselves, by giving us the power of the Holy Spirit so that we can control ourselves and live a righteous life, more and more, as we mature as a believer.
     
  11. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    Romans 5: NASB

    1Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we exult in hope of the glory of God.3And not only this, but we also exult in our tribulations, knowing that tribulation brings about perseverance; 4and perseverance, proven character; and proven character, hope; 5and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

    6For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly.7For one will hardly die for a righteous man; though perhaps for the good man someone would dare even to die. 8But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of Godthrough Him. 10For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. 11And not only this, but we also exult in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.
     
  12. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    Just imagine a Holy God who saves!
     
  13. JacksBratt

    JacksBratt Searching for Truth

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    Also, if you notice... names are blotted out when the person is found to be unrighteous. Thus, everyone's name is in the book to start with... This means that babies and infants are saved... there would be no reason to blot their names out.
     
  14. Mary of Bethany

    Mary of Bethany Only one thing is needful. Supporter

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    From death, to Life.
     
  15. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    And he will have no place in the Kingdom. He has done a good job keeping the Kingdom absent within religion.

    Matthew 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2019
  16. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    Wrath already at work.

    Romans 1: NASB

    18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.

    24Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. 25For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
     
  17. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    Or we could have the Glory of God in mind with regards to procreation.
     
  18. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    Do the Scriptures define death as total annihilation?
     
  19. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    So you agree this is Godly fear?
     
  20. Maria Billingsley

    Maria Billingsley Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Yep, I agree.
     
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