What exactly did Jesus Save us from?....

timothyu

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You know, this opens up a whole new meaning to what Paul said when he wished everyone would be as he was, i.e. celibate. :)
Church would stop growing, or at least slow down mighty quick. lol
 
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bekkilyn

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Church would stop growing, or at least slow down mighty quick. lol

But then that would be okay since there would be no more humans to need to save!
 
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RaymondG

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Hardly any different than here. Turn on the news. Go for a drive.
When one brings the light, it is not possible to see darkness. Give it a try......take a flashlight and shine it in a dark place and see if there is a way to have some of the darkness stay....
 
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timothyu

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When one brings the light, it is not possible to see darkness.
For ourselves no. But Jesus said to lay low. :) Let the darkness rule here while we go about living and doing the work of the light. Even sinful man appreciates a helping hand while they plunder others.
 
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RaymondG

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That assumes that somebody believes the baby is damned. But if so, It wouldn't be because he was born.
If one believes the child is damned from the moment of concept, as the poster I responded to, Why would they be damned? And would it not be truth that if they had not been born, they would not be the object of this wrath?
 
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Albion

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If one believes the child is damned from the moment of concept, as the poster I responded to, Why would they be damned?
That would be so only if everyone is damned with no hope of salvation.

I think you may have misunderstood what he was saying.
 
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No! It's not a sin to be born. Babies deserve wrath because of their sinful disposition toward God and because of the imputation of Adam's sin.

By what you said here, it implies babies who die go to hell. Is this true? Do babies who die go to hell?
 
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RaymondG

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That would be so only if everyone is damned with no hope of salvation.

I think you may have misunderstood what he was saying.
Here is is the statement that prompts my questions: "Babies deserve wrath because of their sinful disposition toward God and because of the imputation of Adam's sin."

I guess it is me who is adding "because they were born," because Im unsure of what else to say they have done wrong...at their age.
 
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Soyeong

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Answer? The wrath of God.

The OP is a bit long but establishes the point we are saved from the wrath of God through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Revelation 14: NASB

14Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and sitting on the cloud was one like a son of man, having a golden crown on His head and a sharp sickle in His hand. 15And another angel came out of the temple, crying out with a loud voice to Him who sat on the cloud, “Put in your sickle and reap, for the hour to reap has come, because the harvest of the earth is ripe.” 16Then He who sat on the cloud swung His sickle over the earth, and the earth was reaped.

17And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, and he also had a sharp sickle. 18Then another angel, the one who has power over fire, came out from the altar; and he called with a loud voice to him who had the sharp sickle, saying, “Put in your sharp sickle and gather the clusters from the vine of the earth, because her grapes are ripe.” 19So the angel swung his sickle to the earth and gathered the clusters from the vine of the earth, and threw them into the great wine press of the wrath of God. 20And the wine press was trodden outside the city, and blood came out from the wine press, up to the horses’ bridles, for a distance of two hundred miles.

The wrath of God is mentioned in the NT as the justice of God meted out to the unrepentant wicked.

In our post-modern society mentioning a wrathful God evokes thoughts of an angry deity who is a monster to mete out punishment taking pleasure in the afflictions of His own creation. But is this the Biblical portrayal of a Just and Loving God who is Righteous and will not let unrighteousness go unpunished?

First let's dispel this "monster God" of post-modernism.

The wrath of God is not a capricious, impulsive or arbitrary outburst of anger as some try to promote and thus God is not wrathful.

The wrath of God is a settled determined response of a Holy God against sin.

As Anglican Bishop J.I. Packer is quoted:

“God’s wrath in the Bible is never the capricious, self-indulgent, irritable, morally ignoble thing that human anger so often is. It is, instead, a right and necessary reaction to objective moral evil” (Knowing God, 151).

Which Packer is referring to the Apostle Paul to the Romans:

Romans 2: NASB

1Therefore you have no excuse, everyone of you who passes judgment, for in that which you judge another, you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things. 2And we know that the judgment of God rightly falls upon those who practice such things. 3But do you suppose this, O man, when you pass judgment on those who practice such things and do the same yourself, that you will escape the judgment of God? 4Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? 5But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS: 7to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; 8but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation. 9There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek, 10but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11For there is no partiality with God.

Therefore, God's wrath is just.

As sinners needing Christ as Lord and Savior, God's wrath is to be feared. Feared because all are sinners (Romans 3:23), that we are separated from God needing to be at peace with Him (Romans 5:1) and God promises eternal punishment for those not in Christ (Matthew 25:46).

Therefore, we are to fear God's wrath.

The wrath of God is also consistent in both the OT and NT Scriptures. Some try to separate a God of the OT and a God of the NT. This was the argument put forth by Marcion and his views Marcionism were rejected by the early Church. However, when we examine the Scriptures we see consistency:

Jeremiah 30: NASB
23 Behold, the tempest of the LORD!
Wrath has gone forth,
A sweeping tempest;
It will burst on the head of the wicked.


24The fierce anger of the LORD will not turn back
Until He has performed and until He has accomplished
The intent of His heart;
In the latter days you will understand this.

Nahum 1: NASB
2A jealous and avenging God is the LORD;
The LORD is avenging and wrathful.
The LORD takes vengeance on His adversaries,
And He reserves wrath for His enemies.


3The LORD is slow to anger and great in power,
And the LORD will by no means leave the guilty unpunished.
In whirlwind and storm is His way,
And clouds are the dust beneath His feet.

Romans 1: NASB
18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

Revelation 19: NASB
15From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty. 16And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written, “KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.”

Therefore, God's wrath is consistent in the OT and NT.

As we can see laid out above is the Biblical truth on the wrath of God and the consequences. In the next thread we will speak of how "all have sinned" was remedied by God before the foundations of the earth. Concluding with the spoiler:

Romans 5: NASB
6For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. 7For one will hardly die for a righteous man; though perhaps for the good man someone would dare even to die. 8But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him. 10For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. 11And not only this, but we also exult in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.

Our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21) and sin is defined as the transgression of God's Law (1 John 3:4), so being trained by grace to live in obedience to God's Law through faith is what salvation from living in disobedience to God's Law looks like. In Titus 2:11-14, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, which is essentially what God's Law was given to instruct us how to do. Furthermore, it says that Jesus gave himself both to redeem us from all Lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so this is describing both past and present aspects of our salvation. We have been saved from the penalty of our sins (Ephesians 2:8), we are being saved from continuing to live in sin (Philippians 2:12), and we will be saved from God's wrath on the day of the Lord (Romans 5:9-10), so our salvation is all encompassing.
 
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Answer? The wrath of God.

The OP is a bit long but establishes the point we are saved from the wrath of God through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Revelation 14: NASB

14Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and sitting on the cloud was one like a son of man, having a golden crown on His head and a sharp sickle in His hand. 15And another angel came out of the temple, crying out with a loud voice to Him who sat on the cloud, “Put in your sickle and reap, for the hour to reap has come, because the harvest of the earth is ripe.” 16Then He who sat on the cloud swung His sickle over the earth, and the earth was reaped.

17And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, and he also had a sharp sickle. 18Then another angel, the one who has power over fire, came out from the altar; and he called with a loud voice to him who had the sharp sickle, saying, “Put in your sharp sickle and gather the clusters from the vine of the earth, because her grapes are ripe.” 19So the angel swung his sickle to the earth and gathered the clusters from the vine of the earth, and threw them into the great wine press of the wrath of God. 20And the wine press was trodden outside the city, and blood came out from the wine press, up to the horses’ bridles, for a distance of two hundred miles.

The wrath of God is mentioned in the NT as the justice of God meted out to the unrepentant wicked.

In our post-modern society mentioning a wrathful God evokes thoughts of an angry deity who is a monster to mete out punishment taking pleasure in the afflictions of His own creation. But is this the Biblical portrayal of a Just and Loving God who is Righteous and will not let unrighteousness go unpunished?

First let's dispel this "monster God" of post-modernism.

The wrath of God is not a capricious, impulsive or arbitrary outburst of anger as some try to promote and thus God is not wrathful.

The wrath of God is a settled determined response of a Holy God against sin.

As Anglican Bishop J.I. Packer is quoted:

“God’s wrath in the Bible is never the capricious, self-indulgent, irritable, morally ignoble thing that human anger so often is. It is, instead, a right and necessary reaction to objective moral evil” (Knowing God, 151).

Which Packer is referring to the Apostle Paul to the Romans:

Romans 2: NASB

1Therefore you have no excuse, everyone of you who passes judgment, for in that which you judge another, you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things. 2And we know that the judgment of God rightly falls upon those who practice such things. 3But do you suppose this, O man, when you pass judgment on those who practice such things and do the same yourself, that you will escape the judgment of God? 4Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? 5But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS: 7to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; 8but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation. 9There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek, 10but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11For there is no partiality with God.

Therefore, God's wrath is just.

As sinners needing Christ as Lord and Savior, God's wrath is to be feared. Feared because all are sinners (Romans 3:23), that we are separated from God needing to be at peace with Him (Romans 5:1) and God promises eternal punishment for those not in Christ (Matthew 25:46).

Therefore, we are to fear God's wrath.

The wrath of God is also consistent in both the OT and NT Scriptures. Some try to separate a God of the OT and a God of the NT. This was the argument put forth by Marcion and his views Marcionism were rejected by the early Church. However, when we examine the Scriptures we see consistency:

Jeremiah 30: NASB
23 Behold, the tempest of the LORD!
Wrath has gone forth,
A sweeping tempest;
It will burst on the head of the wicked.


24The fierce anger of the LORD will not turn back
Until He has performed and until He has accomplished
The intent of His heart;
In the latter days you will understand this.

Nahum 1: NASB
2A jealous and avenging God is the LORD;
The LORD is avenging and wrathful.
The LORD takes vengeance on His adversaries,
And He reserves wrath for His enemies.


3The LORD is slow to anger and great in power,
And the LORD will by no means leave the guilty unpunished.
In whirlwind and storm is His way,
And clouds are the dust beneath His feet.

Romans 1: NASB
18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

Revelation 19: NASB
15From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty. 16And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written, “KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.”

Therefore, God's wrath is consistent in the OT and NT.

As we can see laid out above is the Biblical truth on the wrath of God and the consequences. In the next thread we will speak of how "all have sinned" was remedied by God before the foundations of the earth. Concluding with the spoiler:

Romans 5: NASB
6For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. 7For one will hardly die for a righteous man; though perhaps for the good man someone would dare even to die. 8But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him. 10For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. 11And not only this, but we also exult in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.

We are to fear God's wrath. But many think this endless torment in the flames of the Lake of Fire (Which is a belief that is an attack upon the good character of our God). I believe the Bible teaches that there is a real literal hell (with literal flames), but I believe God is just and He will eventually destroy the wicked in the Lake of Fire after punishing them for their sins there. God is into fair justice.
 
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Elect babies do not.

So are there un-elect babies who die and can go to hell?
Granted, I do believe that those who worship the beast never had their names in the book of life since the foundation of the world (Revelation 13:8, Revelation 17:8); But this does not mean God will let them die as babies and to roast in hell without them first carrying out their wicked act that will condemn them. While most babies do have the curse of Adam on them physically, their souls are saved by Jesus Christ. Jesus is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world. This is not Universalism (Which is false) because God allows for many to grow up and have to physically choose Him. That is why there will be a judgment. For it makes no sense to have a judgment if God elected some to damnation and some to salvation. I believe God draws us (awakens our eyes spiritually) at certain points in our lives to be able to choose Him of our own free will. But it is up to us to decide if we want Jesus in our life or not. God does not force salvation or damnation upon anyone. It would be immoral of God to do that. This is Basic Morality 101.
 
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Gods not mad

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What exactly did Jesus Save us from?....

(1 corinthians 15:16-17) For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised; and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins.

so seeing how he has been raised we are no longer in our sins if we reverse that scripture and what it is saying. the price has been paid, in faith we are the righteousness of Christ.

he saved us from ourselves for we never could or would. if we were not declared righteous by God through the finished work on the cross God would never have raised Jesus. for what would the point have been. Jesus saved us from the law that God requires to be upheld. we can not uphold it and no man will ever be able to there is only one who has Jesus Christ and that victory he gives to those who ask him by faith. faith in what that he is who he says he is. it's that easy. all glory be to God and none to man.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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No! It's not a sin to be born. Babies deserve wrath because of their sinful disposition toward God and because of the imputation of Adam's sin.
Babies deserve to be burned in fire, sounds like another god's voice to me. Hint: it's in the bible.
 
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Maria Billingsley

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Answer? The wrath of God.

The OP is a bit long but establishes the point we are saved from the wrath of God through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Revelation 14: NASB

14Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and sitting on the cloud was one like a son of man, having a golden crown on His head and a sharp sickle in His hand. 15And another angel came out of the temple, crying out with a loud voice to Him who sat on the cloud, “Put in your sickle and reap, for the hour to reap has come, because the harvest of the earth is ripe.” 16Then He who sat on the cloud swung His sickle over the earth, and the earth was reaped.

17And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, and he also had a sharp sickle. 18Then another angel, the one who has power over fire, came out from the altar; and he called with a loud voice to him who had the sharp sickle, saying, “Put in your sharp sickle and gather the clusters from the vine of the earth, because her grapes are ripe.” 19So the angel swung his sickle to the earth and gathered the clusters from the vine of the earth, and threw them into the great wine press of the wrath of God. 20And the wine press was trodden outside the city, and blood came out from the wine press, up to the horses’ bridles, for a distance of two hundred miles.

The wrath of God is mentioned in the NT as the justice of God meted out to the unrepentant wicked.

In our post-modern society mentioning a wrathful God evokes thoughts of an angry deity who is a monster to mete out punishment taking pleasure in the afflictions of His own creation. But is this the Biblical portrayal of a Just and Loving God who is Righteous and will not let unrighteousness go unpunished?

First let's dispel this "monster God" of post-modernism.

The wrath of God is not a capricious, impulsive or arbitrary outburst of anger as some try to promote and thus God is not wrathful.

The wrath of God is a settled determined response of a Holy God against sin.

As Anglican Bishop J.I. Packer is quoted:

“God’s wrath in the Bible is never the capricious, self-indulgent, irritable, morally ignoble thing that human anger so often is. It is, instead, a right and necessary reaction to objective moral evil” (Knowing God, 151).

Which Packer is referring to the Apostle Paul to the Romans:

Romans 2: NASB

1Therefore you have no excuse, everyone of you who passes judgment, for in that which you judge another, you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things. 2And we know that the judgment of God rightly falls upon those who practice such things. 3But do you suppose this, O man, when you pass judgment on those who practice such things and do the same yourself, that you will escape the judgment of God? 4Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? 5But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS: 7to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; 8but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation. 9There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek, 10but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11For there is no partiality with God.

Therefore, God's wrath is just.

As sinners needing Christ as Lord and Savior, God's wrath is to be feared. Feared because all are sinners (Romans 3:23), that we are separated from God needing to be at peace with Him (Romans 5:1) and God promises eternal punishment for those not in Christ (Matthew 25:46).

Therefore, we are to fear God's wrath.

The wrath of God is also consistent in both the OT and NT Scriptures. Some try to separate a God of the OT and a God of the NT. This was the argument put forth by Marcion and his views Marcionism were rejected by the early Church. However, when we examine the Scriptures we see consistency:

Jeremiah 30: NASB
23 Behold, the tempest of the LORD!
Wrath has gone forth,
A sweeping tempest;
It will burst on the head of the wicked.


24The fierce anger of the LORD will not turn back
Until He has performed and until He has accomplished
The intent of His heart;
In the latter days you will understand this.

Nahum 1: NASB
2A jealous and avenging God is the LORD;
The LORD is avenging and wrathful.
The LORD takes vengeance on His adversaries,
And He reserves wrath for His enemies.


3The LORD is slow to anger and great in power,
And the LORD will by no means leave the guilty unpunished.
In whirlwind and storm is His way,
And clouds are the dust beneath His feet.

Romans 1: NASB
18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

Revelation 19: NASB
15From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty. 16And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written, “KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.”

Therefore, God's wrath is consistent in the OT and NT.

As we can see laid out above is the Biblical truth on the wrath of God and the consequences. In the next thread we will speak of how "all have sinned" was remedied by God before the foundations of the earth. Concluding with the spoiler:

Romans 5: NASB
6For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. 7For one will hardly die for a righteous man; though perhaps for the good man someone would dare even to die. 8But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him. 10For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. 11And not only this, but we also exult in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.
Our sin which kept us apart and in the dark about our Creator. He restored the opportunity for all come back to the relationship we once had with Him until the fall. This was our original condition. This was taken away from us at the fall and with His Grace He gave it back to us. However, one must believe, repent and walk in the Spirit.
Blessings
 
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JerseyChristianSuperstar

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Amen.

2 Corinthians 5:21 - "For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him."

1 John 2:2 - "And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world."

Propitiation means the appeasement and satisfactory action that is pleasing to God Almighty. Since God's justice and rigtheousness demands that God's justice be satisfied by an atonement for sin, that it cannot go without consequences, Jesus, the sinless Lamb of God, and Second Person of the Trinity, underwent the wrath of the Father and it pleased Him. See Isaiah 53 also.

God bless! :)
 
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