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What Early Christians believed about the Eucharist

Discussion in 'One Bread, One Body - Catholic' started by Lost4words, Jul 4, 2020.

  1. Lost4words

    Lost4words Jesus I Trust In You Supporter

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    A nice video by Matt Fradd about what the Early church fathers, and Christians believed when it came to the Eucharist:

     
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  2. thecolorsblend

    thecolorsblend If God is your Father, who is your Mother? Supporter

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  3. Tra Phull

    Tra Phull Arminian Commando

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    Methodists believe in a Real Presence, but hold it as a Mystery, not holding to either Transubstantiaton or the idea that Eucharist is "just a symbol."

    "My blood is REAL drink, and my flesh is REAL food"

    As the video points out - the idea of "just symbolic" is very late.

    Sometimes I wonder where is Christ's blood and body AT TIMES OTHER THAN EUCHARIST?

    We generally say that Christ's glorified body now is FLESH AND BONE, but not FLESH AND BLOOD, due to a scripture that says "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom"

    His body is "at the right hand of God", we affirm this, but don't really believe that God the Father literally has a RIGHT HAND.

    And where is the spilled blood of Christ right now?

    Wherever it is, in this Mystery of Eucharist, it comes from wherever it is to be united with part of the body that sits at the right hand of the Father.

    Joins into a Real Presence, but the HOW OF IT remains a mystery. We accept it, like we accept a mysterious TRINITY but sometimes it defies explanation.

    Real Presence - Real Mystery.
     
  4. chevyontheriver

    chevyontheriver Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Those are not opposite poles, symbolism and transubstantiation. Transubstantiation is merely an explanation of a reality, the reality that Jesus is indeed God with us. And it does work in an Aristotelian philosophic framework. When Protestants lost their cognition into Aristotle it was not a surprise they couldn't comprehend transubstantiation any longer.
    Then I'd think you would be obligated to follow the early practice of the faith.
    Is that really a Methodist 'thing'? I've never heard of it before, a resurrected Jesus but without blood. That;s different.
     
  5. Tra Phull

    Tra Phull Arminian Commando

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    It's not a Methodist thing, Chef

    It comes from some Bible verse about flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom
     
  6. chevyontheriver

    chevyontheriver Well-Known Member Supporter

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    So the resurrected Jesus has no blood? Just flesh and bones, but no blood? Just because somebody thinks they got some Bible verse backing them up on that? I'm not getting it.
     
  7. Tra Phull

    Tra Phull Arminian Commando

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    1 Cor 15:50
     
  8. Tra Phull

    Tra Phull Arminian Commando

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    I don't know, Chevy

    I have no systematic theology on Christ's resurrected body
     
  9. thecolorsblend

    thecolorsblend If God is your Father, who is your Mother? Supporter

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    ...

    Yes?

    Do you have any insight you care to impart about that scripture?
     
  10. chevyontheriver

    chevyontheriver Well-Known Member Supporter

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    50 I tell you this, brethren: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

    How do you go from that to Jesus having no blood? You could just as well have made the argument that Jesus had no flesh after His resurrection. It's just as odd.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2020
  11. Tra Phull

    Tra Phull Arminian Commando

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    1 Cor 15:50 has led some to conclude that the resurrected body is flesh and bone but not flesh and blood, I didn't make it up

    I don't know if it's true, or if Oreo cookies and Pepsi can be used as elements of the Eucharist

    If they are going to be transformed into body and blood of Christ, what difference does it make what they started out as?
     
  12. chevyontheriver

    chevyontheriver Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I'm just saying it's really odd for anyone to think that 1 Cor 15:50 means that the resurrected Jesus has no blood but just an exsanguinated body and bone which has non-functional marrow. Especially when there is an alternate explanation that makes much more sense. And is contextually coherent.
     
  13. chevyontheriver

    chevyontheriver Well-Known Member Supporter

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    So where did you pick it up from? It's just strange.
    They can't. Real bread and real wine. Period.
    Jesus took bread and wine ....
     
  14. thecolorsblend

    thecolorsblend If God is your Father, who is your Mother? Supporter

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    Spoiler Alert: They can't.

    With respect, this is one thing about Protestantism that eventually drove me away from Protestantism.

    With Protestantism, there's never any room for texture or distinction. Something is either 100% one thing or 100% something else. There's no middle ground, no shade of gray, no nuance. Not with Protestantism. The idea of saying "Both and" seems foreign to many Protestants. And that's one reason why I think Protestants usually make such lamentably poor theologians.

    The consecrated elements are Our Lord's body and blood. As Catholics, we believe that.

    However, the fact that we believe that doesn't mean that we suddenly forget about the commemorative aspect that Our Lord Himself commanded during the Last Supper. He called the elements His Body and His Blood. And then He said to do this in His memory.

    So the Church obediently regards those things as His Body and His Blood while we also do this in His memory. It's not 100% of one thing exclusively or 100% of the other thing exclusively. It's both and.
     
  15. Tra Phull

    Tra Phull Arminian Commando

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    Forget it.
    Unwatching thread.
     
  16. chevyontheriver

    chevyontheriver Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Well, if you can find a contemporary source for this idea that Jesus has flesh and bone but not flesh and blood I would appreciate it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2020
  17. thecolorsblend

    thecolorsblend If God is your Father, who is your Mother? Supporter

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