What does true faith mean?

mindfulzen

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After answering a person in PM, I just realized that I am more proficient in english than norwegian. Please suggest the correct english bible. I will save time wasted on translating, and money on the bible too, since I am pretty sure they are cheaper to buy online from the continent. Also have more words than english, so less practical language for learning. Orthodox type. Greek orthodox preferred I think. Focus on John the baptist.
 
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Rescued One

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I base my explanation of faith as a conviction that is given by God that:

Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are One God (Bible verses that I believe support this)

That I need a perfect payment for my sins

Hebrews 9
15 For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.

Faith is believing this without having scientific proof. We share the truth without being able to prove it to another person.

John 6:37
All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away.

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

(All have sinned. We can't earn eternal ife --- it is a gift!)

Being given the new birth is by the Holy Spirit, not by our own decision.

John 3
6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

Our first birth is natural. Our second birth is spiritual.

Faith that is dead doesn't believe or do what the Bible teaches.

John 14
23 Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. 24 Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

Those who have the second birth obey Him because they love him!
We aren't seeking a reward.

1 John 4:19 NIV
We love because he first loved us.

1 John 4:19 KJV
We love him, because he first loved us.
20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar...

(I use NIV and other versions for those who don't understand King James English, but I usually read KJV. )

True faith, to me, isn't just saying, "I believe." It's believing the Bible as well as believing the words that Jesus spoke concerning God the Father and the Holy Spirit.

2 Timothy 3:16
16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

I'm still learning.
 
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eleos1954

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After answering a person in PM, I just realized that I am more proficient in english than norwegian. Please suggest the correct english bible. I will save time wasted on translating, and money on the bible too, since I am pretty sure they are cheaper to buy online from the continent. Also have more words than english, so less practical language for learning. Orthodox type. Greek orthodox preferred I think. Focus on John the baptist.

Here is a free online resource ..... you can easily see and compare many translations and other valuable tools ..... EASILY

www.biblehub.com
 
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Pioneer3mm

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Here is a free online resource ..... you can easily see and compare many translations and other valuable tools ..... EASILY

www.biblehub.com
I use 'biblehub'.. very helpful.
- Bible translations, commentaries, etc..
 
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mindfulzen

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I base my explanation of faith as a conviction that is given by God that:

Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are One God (Bible verses that I believe support this)

That I need a perfect payment for my sins

Hebrews 9
15 For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.

Faith is believing this without having scientific proof. We share the truth without being able to prove it to another person.

John 6:37
All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away.

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

(All have sinned. We can't earn eternal ife --- it is a gift!)

Being given the new birth is by the Holy Spirit, not by our own decision.

John 3
6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

Our first birth is natural. Our second birth is spiritual.

Faith that is dead doesn't believe or do what the Bible teaches.

John 14
23 Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. 24 Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

Those who have the second birth obey Him because they love him!
We aren't seeking a reward.

1 John 4:19 NIV
We love because he first loved us.

1 John 4:19 KJV
We love him, because he first loved us.
20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar...

(I use NIV and other versions for those who don't understand King James English, but I usually read KJV. )

True faith, to me, isn't just saying, "I believe." It's believing the Bible as well as believing the words that Jesus spoke concerning God the Father and the Holy Spirit.

2 Timothy 3:16
16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

I'm still learning.
This is good stuff, good leads. And also the important stuff I began with, the John stuff, which I have read a few times, and must read again, with your verses put in context. Which then leads to the apostles of John again, and I must read ignatious and the further teachings there.

And then we have the romas verses, that are also important.

And then we have the linguistic stuff, seeing as we have more words for different types of love, and define what type it is. We cannot say "I love you" to friends or family. That is reserved for romantic love, and parents can tell their babies they love them. To those groups I mentioned, we say "I care for you". We are traditionally quite the reserved people, and pinpoint emotions more, and have separate meaning for different relations. Not a blanket word for all. So, the john stuff must be read in the newly translated norwegian version, then I move onto the english in the others, till this love stuff comes up again. Then norwegian again. And so on. So I must get two bibles it seems.
 
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Rescued One

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Yes! Norwegian and English. Most of the relatives I saw as a child were of German ancestry.They didn't hug anyone that wasn't close family and didn't say, "I love you," even to family members. As an adult I felt uncomfortable if a friend wanted to hug me. Those people with Italian ancestry love to hug in their families and probably hug their friends. I've never lived in an Italian-American majority neighborhood.
 
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Mark Quayle

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I got something from this, but also another question. "saving faith", I assume that means faith to be saved and enter the kingdom of heaven, and I currently qualify regarding the heart. But as I understanding it, to go to heaven you must also have asked forgiveness and ask to join. I have not done that yet. With all sorts of denominations and people interpreting, I really think the book gets overcomplicated. I think I am orthodox, so I lean to more dogmatic interpretation on the rules. Not looking to dodge them to get in, want to do it correct. If I get to heaven is secondary to getting it right, otherwise it is not honest, and I would be deceitful and selfish if I tried circuimventing the rules. So, that is not the way to go, cannot enter heaven by sinning.
You cannot get it right. Nobody can, but God himself. True faith is the same faith as 'salvific faith' described in Hebrews 11, particularly as verse 1 puts it. Elsewhere we see that this faith is not even from us, or of us, but produced by the Spirit of God in us. It is the gift of God, the work of God. And HE gets it right the whole time, every time.

Doing it right is not the point: The point is pursuing Christ, with all your being.
 
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mindfulzen

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Yes! Norwegian and English. Most of the relatives I saw as a child were of German ancestry.They didn't hug anyone that wasn't close family and didn't say, "I love you," even to family members. As an adult I felt uncomfortable if a friend wanted to hug me. Those people with Italian ancestry love to hug in their families and probably hug their friends. I've never lived in an Italian-American majority neighborhood.
True, my father never hugged me, and my mother stopped doing that when I bacame a boy, and never did that with the siblings either of course, since all are men. Uncomfortable when I had drunk friends who hugged. Caring is shown in deeds/action here, if you really use words to express something, it must mean something, same with hugging. It has to do with not devaluating the value of such emotional expressions. If you deal it out like thank yous and hellos, there is inflation, and you are kind of giving away the milk for free. Like a streetworker only with emotios that should be guarded better. Like with candy, if you eat candy everyday it does not taste as good, as it does if you only eat it at weekends. I think it is from the bible, about not living in excess, you know, drink but drink in moderation, etc.

Yes, germans are also reserved, and they have a very practical and logical language, which is a great tool for them in academia and other logical work. My dialect actually have the same grammatical thing as they have, which we do not have in our national ones. Something "dativ" and possbly "genetiv" too. Something about gendering actions or objects, different words depending if you speak to women, men and dogs. Useful tool I suppose. But needless to say, if I got a bible translated into that dialect, it would be totally impossible to read and understand

Did a new thread btw, with a poll. Please opine
Geopolitics, relations between the islamic empire and the west
 
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Rescued One

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The first prayer I ever said:

Ich bin klein
Mein Herz ist dein
So niemand kann da Wohnen
Als Jesu allein

I've seen it online like this:

Ich bin klein
Mein Herz ist rein
Darf neimand drin wohnen als Jesus allein.
 
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mindfulzen

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The first prayer I ever said:

Ich bin klein
Mein Herz ist dein
So niemand kann da Wohnen
Als Jesu allein

I've seen it online like this:

Ich bin klein
Mein Herz ist rein
Darf neimand drin wohnen als Jesus allein.
Nice little prayer I guess, I do not know any prayers yet, apart from those I have read here and some other places. I think I understood it fully, but I did flunk german in college. Tried to bribe my teacher 1 000 dollars get passing grade, did not work, he was christian. That was a sin, must make a note of that for my prayer. It means this, right?

I am small, my heart is yours, so no other than jesus alone can live there.

Searching for bibles is not going well. They cost like 200 dollars here minimum, if you do not go for an old one with a translation from 1978. Found an orthodox bible in a webshop in another country for 50 bucks. and regular bible in english was like 20-30 bucks. KJV and NIV
 
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mindfulzen

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Maybe the Orthodox Church will send you a bible?


There are Churches here in the U.S. that give them away every Sunday. :)
I do not think there is an orthodox church in my language here. They seem to be for eastern europeans, so only in polish, lithuania, greek, etc, and that is greek to me.. But a little update, after changing searchengine cleaning cookies, I suddenly got better hits and found a nearby shop, pocketbible from 2011 for 20 bucks. That is the kind of bible Jesus would by, why go fancy? All wrong, right?

Anyways, there is also a bible in 365 days studyplan, so you read the scripture in the most plausible chronological order. That sounds smart, right? A book called, grill a christian, that mayby answers all the questions I ask here. And own books about thomas book and johns book, etc. That deepdive on single issues. But no orthodox bible yet. So many books from christian authors. Will probably just drive up there and browse the shelves.
 
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mindfulzen

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Wen to a bookstore that had the pocketbible and some other books I wanted for cheap. Conveniently they did not have those cheap bibles in the shelves, only the high cost ones. A bummer. But got recommended some others downtown, where it is MUCHA TRAFICKOS, not sure I want to drive down there. Closed now anyways.

I did find a book I got from the jehovas witness people who came in and had a cup of coffe, and talked to me about Jesus way back. "Watchtower and tract society of pennsylvania 1995". "International bible students organization brooklyn NY". Title is, "Knowledge that leads to everlasting life". Printed in 125 countries, 45 million copies printed. 200 pages. This is prolly a compact and easy read. Any good? Browsing through it, it seems to focus heavily on Jesus, the last days, and authoritystructure in all segments, from government to family. And all the bad stuff in the last days.

I also found my philosophylexica again, which I must also ask forgiveness for not returning to the library I think. If I do not return it, it is kind of stealing, on the other side, when they send a bill that does not get paid right away, and eventually I pays, way more than the book costs as new. It is settled, so perhaps not needed to include on the list. What say you?
 
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Maria Billingsley

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Depending on who you speak to, belief in God is conflated with faith. Am I assuming incorrect when I read faith as belief+trust+no fear? Guiding your life according to Gods plan, no matter what. Live right, do right. Seems like many people just say they have faith, and all it means is that they grew up in a christian home, and since they mesh in various sins, and pretend like it is compatible with christianity. Go out and sleep with someone new each weekend, or blaspheme, steal and cheat, etc, and still they say they have faith. What does it generally mean here? Seeing as it means nothing in my country.


I read some denomination thread today, and struggled with definitions, so could not understand what it meant. It was about dead sins, which I think I understand. That if you stop sinning, the sins are dead, and you are good, and in a position to pray forgiveness. But then there was this bit about true faith. Here is the passage. And thread.

True Faith Changes Us

"If we are in Christ Jesus, by genuine faith in him, we are no longer dead in our sins, but we have been crucified with Christ to sin and we are living to Christ and to his righteousness. We once walked in sin. We once conducted our lives in sinful practices. But now we no longer make sin our practice."
Once one has faith they recieve His Holy Spirit. Once one receives His Holy Spirit, then the rest of your list can be realized. As for those who live a sinful life with no repentance, they are without the Holy Spirit. Blessings.
 
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mindfulzen

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I'm not familiar with any of those books, but I can tell you that the Jehovah Witnesses are a cult that mix Christianity with their own brand of religion. Highly suspect in my opinion.
I know that, but this book does not seem to perpetuate any of that stuff. Think this is the literature they give out to entice you in, before the next programming might begin. The jehovas witness that came to me, was the neighbours, I think they came to enlighten me and warn me about the woman I roamed with and semilived with. Since it was my landlady, bit of a loose woman. She seemed to be at some sort of war with them, always speaking badly of them and their faith. She also made me hide with her when some christian streetwalkerpatrol came upon us when going home drunk out of our skull after a pubrun, where another lady I knew was a part of it. Think the neighbours were good people. Never really saw them, apart from when they did missionary at my apartment, and she was very upset each time I let them in.

The book seems legit for the true faith. Nothing about denying Christ, which I thought they did. I like it. Compress it nicely. Do not worry, I am still orthodox, and will never deny christ ever. I was thinking of buying some sort of summary book today, where they only had the costly books in the shelves, so this is good stuff.
 
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mindfulzen

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Once one has faith they recieve His Holy Spirit. Once one receives His Holy Spirit, then the rest of your list can be realized. As for those who live a sinful life with no repentance, they are without the Holy Spirit. Blessings.
Thank you. I agree. I just cannot realize the rest of the list with unresolved and tumultuos relations in my life, that affects others. Got a family of 2 left, that is of frail health, being used by my chosen family in my past life, that has since used some former familymembers as tools to hurt me. And wear me out, and I could never hurt her or her daughter, so never fought back, and found it unacceptable of my brother to not leave my personal life, after I invited him in for one meeting, because she manipulated me into it, because she said it must be done, while I was on drugs. And I agreed while on drugs, wanting sex and earthly love. So, he stayed, and betrayal. Ivasion of my life. My relation to another. So, I let him stay in my family, while talking to her, being a mess on drugs, while full well knowing she was using it to hurt me, through him, with my family. Then it got hard, and then I was blocked off communicating with my family. When I had quit drugs and could tell them to get out of my life, and that she is not totally truthful. But since it was blocked, and I had to fight or destroy her with her false lies, I did not. So, I went away for 7 years or so instead and waited for death. But became christian in the process. And my mom got sick, my father grew tired from work, she could not help him, so I had to come back. I tried again, and no go. So I cut the familytree and her communicationlines to them. And she says she lost her father and her mother is going soon, so we should get peace now for both families.And her daughter has issues, so not good. Nobody else is to blame for her sinful life, I invited nobody into it, and I cannot give anybody what they want now. I do not betray trust to any of them, even if they want to hurt me, or use my family. They made their choices themselves, and broke the rules. So now the are on their 8th year, fighting a drugaddiction in a person who has not used drugs, and is very much again it, and I cannot tell them that. That is the cross I bear for not going non communicado with them for 8 years, when a desperate sosiopath attack you and use them.
 
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mindfulzen

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Your aims are admirable, but, I fear, unachievable. If we could stop sinning, we would not need Jesus. Many people will testify to how their noble intentions failed to translate into actions. Believing in God, sure. Before I was born again, I knew that God was real. It made no difference to me. I even had a prayer answered, so obviously that I had to force myself to pretend that it was coincidence. I was 12 at the time.

Acting like a Christian is fruitless. You may as well train a cat to behave like a dog. Even if it works, it's still a cat.

Stop being angry and hating? Stop being human. That won't happen. What you are proposing is not Christian, it's more eastern mysticism.

Losing fear means that you know that God loves you and there is no doubt in your heart. Until you know God, that's not going to happen

It's good to learn from Christians and study the Bible. You are seeking. Good. You will find. My advice is to pester God until He reveals Himself to you. This world is getting darker and crazier by the day. Christians have God to see them through the coming trials. It's hard enough even if the world stays as it is.

Knowledge is good, but when will you be satisfied? The danger is falling into a never ending cycle of getting an answer then, "Yes, but....." and asking another question. Ask God to open your eyes. He's never said "No" to anyone who truly seeks to know Him.
You misinterpret my point about acting christian, not acting it, acting it out, meaning living it.

If stop hating and anger is stop being huiman, I am an alien now. Never felt much anger anyways, before troubled times and drugs. I will not pester God yet. I will wait till I know more. Unqualified yey. I was an atheist, I do not know the bible at all, apart from the atheist perspective, from Hitchens, dawkins, harris, etc. I cannot ask to join before I understand those verses from a christian perspective. If you have gotten the verses from athists angry with the religion, I cannot use it as gospel, even if I trust them as people of honesty, when they have such strong feelings against the christian people and God. No hurry, I ask when I am ready

Losing fear may mean that, I do not know. Just a personal feeling I lost in other regards. I do not need more answers, I am satisfied. No problem. But I feel I should know more about my faith, since I learned it from an atheist perspective. And from a hateful perspective. Not to cover my ass, but to di it right. Or fair if you will. Hear both sides out. Faith is faith, it stays put, it is a feeling, does not require evidence. Come on people.
 
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d taylor

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True faith, how can faith be untrue.

If a person believes men (i personally do not believe) went to the moon. Why would they say that they do believe this, if they really do not.

Same with The Messiah, why would a person say that they believe in The Messiah for God's free gift of Eternal Life, if they actually do not.

Sure there can be false people who are using say christianity as a way to deceive people say of monetary reasons, etc... But these people have never believed in the first place. Just like Judas, he did not have false faith, he never believed in the first place.

But faith really can not be judged by a persons actions, a person who has a drug problem, who can not shake their problem. But at some point in their life they may have been witnessed to about God's free gift of Eternal Life and because of that witness they may have at a point in their trusted in The Messiah for Good's free gift of Eternal Life. They simply cannot be judged if they really believed in The Messiah for Eternal Life, by how their life is going.
 
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