What does true faith mean?

[mindfulzen]

Depending on who you speak to, belief in God is conflated with faith. Am I assuming incorrect when I read faith as belief+trust+no fear? Guiding your life according to Gods plan, no matter what. Live right, do right. Seems like many people just say they have faith, and all it means is that they grew up in a christian home, and since they mesh in various sins, and pretend like it is compatible with christianity. Go out and sleep with someone new each weekend, or blaspheme, steal and cheat, etc, and still they say they have faith. What does it generally mean here? Seeing as it means nothing in my country.


I read some denomination thread today, and struggled with definitions, so could not understand what it meant. It was about dead sins, which I think I understand. That if you stop sinning, the sins are dead, and you are good, and in a position to pray forgiveness. But then there was this bit about true faith. Here is the passage. And thread.

True Faith Changes Us

"If we are in Christ Jesus, by genuine faith in him, we are no longer dead in our sins, but we have been crucified with Christ to sin and we are living to Christ and to his righteousness. We once walked in sin. We once conducted our lives in sinful practices. But now we no longer make sin our practice."

 

[dqhall]

Depending on who you speak to, belief in God is conflated with faith. Am I assuming incorrect when I read faith as belief+trust+no fear? Guiding your life according to Gods plan, no matter what. Live right, do right. Seems like many people just say they have faith, and all it means is that they grew up in a christian home, and since they mesh in various sins, and pretend like it is compatible with christianity. Go out and sleep with someone new each weekend, or blaspheme, steal and cheat, etc, and still they say they have faith. What does it generally mean here? Seeing as it means nothing in my country.


I read some denomination thread today, and struggled with definitions, so could not understand what it meant. It was about dead sins, which I think I understand. That if you stop sinning, the sins are dead, and you are good, and in a position to pray forgiveness. But then there was this bit about true faith. Here is the passage. And thread.

True Faith Changes Us

"If we are in Christ Jesus, by genuine faith in him, we are no longer dead in our sins, but we have been crucified with Christ to sin and we are living to Christ and to his righteousness. We once walked in sin. We once conducted our lives in sinful practices. But now we no longer make sin our practice."

True faith will not lie, defraud, or pass false information. Faith may require studying and careful examination.

 

[Sabertooth]

Short answer: It is about pursuing God's Will for your life zealously. And when you fall down in that pursuit, getting back up and continuing to do so.

 

[Jesus is my Superhero]

Hebrews chapter 11 will help give you a better understanding of a saving faith. The book of James will show you what that faith looks like. In the end it is really the Holy Spirit working in you, showing you the path to walk in Jesus Christ.

 

[mindfulzen]

So, we do not agree on what true faith is. I use the actual definition from the dictionary. Then I interpret or plainly read and register the verses about faith, and it is pretty clear. Then I read and listen to people using the word and it means less. No different from an atheist who lean towards the likelyhood of there being a God, who still sins. Or mean even less, if the atheist actively seeks faith and try to walk right in the pursuit. While christians in my country just erase sins from the book, and say they have faith while having no care about sinning all the live long day.

ps. How wonderful it must have been to live 100 years ago, when words just meant what they meant. And not this, "this is my truth, this means that to me, blahblahblah. We have lost the means of communication lately.

 

[Jesus is my Superhero]

A person needs to prove all things and in so doing you show yourself approved by God.


Edit: a good bible study website, has ads though. Many bible versions available here!


Read the New American Standard Bible Free Online

 

[mindfulzen]

A person needs to prove all things and in so doing you show yourself approved by God.


Edit: a good bible study website, has ads though. Many bible versions available here!


Read the New American Standard Bible Free Online

I am shopping for a bible now. Trying to find a christian bookstore locally, with actual christian personel who can advice me about the version. The one I have is a lutheran version from 1985. There came a new translation that is supposed to be easier to read with obsolete words gone. Should I just buy that one, or is there another version to buy? I do browse online bibles, but I like it better to read in a book. So I can also be outside. I do not know how different the versions are. I want the greek orthodox version, but do not know if that is possible. Cannot find that one in my language

 

[Jesus is my Superhero]

I would recommend one in your first language, definitely. even if it's not the ideal translation, you can find out what the criticisms are concerning that version, and make notes on the pages corresponding to the errors.

 

[Rescued One]

...We have lost the means of communication lately.

That is so, so true. You've hit the nail on the head!

At least half the problems in my family and the world are poor communication. One person will say someting in as few words as possible, the person who hears them jumps to a conclusion as to what those words mean but won't ask for an explanation, and then decides whether not they want to comunicate anymore.

I can't eat spicy food (doctor's advice). To one person spicy means very, very spicy; to another spicy means no spice. The first person says "This isn't spicy." The second person takes a bite and says, "I can't eat this!"

Menu: Hot Taco or Hot Taco Diablo

 

[eleos1954]

Depending on who you speak to, belief in God is conflated with faith. Am I assuming incorrect when I read faith as belief+trust+no fear? Guiding your life according to Gods plan, no matter what. Live right, do right. Seems like many people just say they have faith, and all it means is that they grew up in a christian home, and since they mesh in various sins, and pretend like it is compatible with christianity. Go out and sleep with someone new each weekend, or blaspheme, steal and cheat, etc, and still they say they have faith. What does it generally mean here? Seeing as it means nothing in my country.


I read some denomination thread today, and struggled with definitions, so could not understand what it meant. It was about dead sins, which I think I understand. That if you stop sinning, the sins are dead, and you are good, and in a position to pray forgiveness. But then there was this bit about true faith. Here is the passage. And thread.

True Faith Changes Us

"If we are in Christ Jesus, by genuine faith in him, we are no longer dead in our sins, but we have been crucified with Christ to sin and we are living to Christ and to his righteousness. We once walked in sin. We once conducted our lives in sinful practices. But now we no longer make sin our practice."

Saving faith is a faith that has its seat in the heart and is rooted in the regenerate life. Saving faith may be defined as a certain conviction, wrought in the heart by the Holy Spirit, as to the truth of the gospel, and a hearty reliance (trust) on the promises of God in and through Christ.

 

[Rescued One]

I am shopping for a bible now. Trying to find a christian bookstore locally, with actual christian personel who can advice me about the version. The one I have is a lutheran version from 1985. There came a new translation that is supposed to be easier to read with obsolete words gone. Should I just buy that one, or is there another version to buy? I do browse online bibles, but I like it better to read in a book. So I can also be outside. I do not know how different the versions are. I want the greek orthodox version, but do not know if that is possible. Cannot find that one in my language

One thing that is helpful to know is that Catholics might have more books in their Bibles than Protestants, I know Greek Orthodox do.

 

[d taylor]

Depending on who you speak to, belief in God is conflated with faith. Am I assuming incorrect when I read faith as belief+trust+no fear? Guiding your life according to Gods plan, no matter what. Live right, do right. Seems like many people just say they have faith, and all it means is that they grew up in a christian home, and since they mesh in various sins, and pretend like it is compatible with christianity. Go out and sleep with someone new each weekend, or blaspheme, steal and cheat, etc, and still they say they have faith. What does it generally mean here? Seeing as it means nothing in my country.


I read some denomination thread today, and struggled with definitions, so could not understand what it meant. It was about dead sins, which I think I understand. That if you stop sinning, the sins are dead, and you are good, and in a position to pray forgiveness. But then there was this bit about true faith. Here is the passage. And thread.

True Faith Changes Us

"If we are in Christ Jesus, by genuine faith in him, we are no longer dead in our sins, but we have been crucified with Christ to sin and we are living to Christ and to his righteousness. We once walked in sin. We once conducted our lives in sinful practices. But now we no longer make sin our practice."

Want to read where they provide great information on this, try this site.

Grace Evangelical Society

 

[mindfulzen]

That is so, so true. You've hit the nail on the head!

At least half the problems in my family and the world are poor communication. One person will say someting in as few words as possible, the person who hears them jumps to a conclusion as to what those words mean but won't ask for an explanation, and then decides whether not they want to comunicate anymore.

I can't eat spicy food (doctor's advice). To one person spicy means very, very spicy; to another spicy means no spice. The first person says "This isn't spicy." The second person takes a bite and says, "I can't eat this!"

Menu: Hot Taco or Hot Taco Diablo

We seem to have the same communicationissues with our surroundings. Only difference is that you need to keep them, and I do not. I visited some of those people yesterday for 1,5 hours, and it was exhausting with all the lies, finishing my sentences incorrect, manipulation, etc. And also the anger and stalling me, so my take away order was cold when I went to get it. But I did point out the point I should point out so that person got it. Even if said person could not deal with it honestly. Flustered, headless chicken who stress and shift around in their seats, fiddling with stuff, when they do not get the reply they want, and their follow up does not fit. Sad but interresting to observe. Exhausting work. I agreed to return again today.

 

[mindfulzen]

Saving faith is a faith that has its seat in the heart and is rooted in the regenerate life. Saving faith may be defined as a certain conviction, wrought in the heart by the Holy Spirit, as to the truth of the gospel, and a hearty reliance (trust) on the promises of God in and through Christ.

I got something from this, but also another question. "saving faith", I assume that means faith to be saved and enter the kingdom of heaven, and I currently qualify regarding the heart. But as I understanding it, to go to heaven you must also have asked forgiveness and ask to join. I have not done that yet. With all sorts of denominations and people interpreting, I really think the book gets overcomplicated. I think I am orthodox, so I lean to more dogmatic interpretation on the rules. Not looking to dodge them to get in, want to do it correct. If I get to heaven is secondary to getting it right, otherwise it is not honest, and I would be deceitful and selfish if I tried circuimventing the rules. So, that is not the way to go, cannot enter heaven by sinning.

 

[mindfulzen]

Thanks for the input folks. I guess it is hard to get orthodox bibles here, so I think I go with the lutheran. I assume some of you can recommend some appendix books to buy in addition to make it complete. Saw there were some deuteronomy apokrafesies, or whatever it is called in english. Butchered direct translation on the spot. Is that important stuff?

 

[eleos1954]

I got something from this, but also another question. "saving faith", I assume that means faith to be saved and enter the kingdom of heaven, and I currently qualify regarding the heart. But as I understanding it, to go to heaven you must also have asked forgiveness and ask to join. I have not done that yet. With all sorts of denominations and people interpreting, I really think the book gets overcomplicated. I think I am orthodox, so I lean to more dogmatic interpretation on the rules. Not looking to dodge them to get in, want to do it correct. If I get to heaven is secondary to getting it right, otherwise it is not honest, and I would be deceitful and selfish if I tried circuimventing the rules. So, that is not the way to go, cannot enter heaven by sinning.

Repentance is recognizing one's sinful condition and turning away from it .... ask Jesus for forgiveness (join with Christ) and then the Holy Spirit will help you turn away from sin. It is the continuous sanctifying power of the Lord and is continuous throughout our earthly lifetime.

 

[mindfulzen]

Repentance is recognizing one's sinful condition and turning away from it .... ask Jesus for forgiveness (join with Christ) and then the Holy Spirit will help you turn away from sin. It is the continuous sanctifying power of the Lord and is continuous throughout our earthly lifetime.

I agree in principle, but the steps are not true for me personally. I am convinced the holy spirit has marked me, even though I have not asked for forgiveness. I turned away from sin as step 1. The order is assbackwards in my situation. Do you think it must be in a particular order? Why?

As an atheist from birth, your order is impossible. Asking forgiveness and asking to join comes last.
1. Stop sinning, apart from anger
2. Believe in God
3. Acting it out
4. Stop hating and being angry, let nothing affect you for good or bad, be calm
5. Stopantidepressants, get a clear mind and real emotions without pharma. Then seek God
6. Losing fear totally. Though I may falter for a moment from time to time, if stuff arise.
7. marked by the holy spirit
8.This stuff, learning about the bible and path.
9. Praying and asking to join. But this is down the line, at least a month or two, but it might take years. Must learn enough first, and have the answers I feel I need first. Must be a genuine and informed choice.

 

[Aussie Pete]

Depending on who you speak to, belief in God is conflated with faith. Am I assuming incorrect when I read faith as belief+trust+no fear? Guiding your life according to Gods plan, no matter what. Live right, do right. Seems like many people just say they have faith, and all it means is that they grew up in a christian home, and since they mesh in various sins, and pretend like it is compatible with christianity. Go out and sleep with someone new each weekend, or blaspheme, steal and cheat, etc, and still they say they have faith. What does it generally mean here? Seeing as it means nothing in my country.


I read some denomination thread today, and struggled with definitions, so could not understand what it meant. It was about dead sins, which I think I understand. That if you stop sinning, the sins are dead, and you are good, and in a position to pray forgiveness. But then there was this bit about true faith. Here is the passage. And thread.

True Faith Changes Us

"If we are in Christ Jesus, by genuine faith in him, we are no longer dead in our sins, but we have been crucified with Christ to sin and we are living to Christ and to his righteousness. We once walked in sin. We once conducted our lives in sinful practices. But now we no longer make sin our practice."

The Bible usually explains itself:

Hebrews 11:1 1Now faith is the assurance of what we hope for and the certainty of what we do not see.

Faith can be likened to spiritual eyesight. We see a bird and we know it's a bird because we see it. No one can argue against us "I know what I saw..."

The Darby version puts it like this:" Now faith is [the] substantiating of things hoped for, [the] conviction of things not seen." Substantiation is defined as evidence sufficient to establish a thing as true, valid, or real;

As physical eyesight validates the physical realm, so faith validates the spiritual realm. Those who are born again did not see Jesus on the cross physically. The gospel preached gave them spiritual eyesight to see Jesus dying for our sins. Faith comes by hearing (Romans 10:17)

If faith is genuine, it will affect the person. Many people conflate mental agreement and faith. They are not the same. That is why God permits trials to come on account of the word (parable of the sower). The reality of the person's faith will be revealed. If faith goes, it was not real faith in the first place.(1 Peter 1:7)

 

[eleos1954]

I agree in principle, but the steps are not true for me personally. I am convinced the holy spirit has marked me, even though I have not asked for forgiveness. I turned away from sin as step 1. The order is assbackwards in my situation. Do you think it must be in a particular order? Why?

As an atheist from birth, your order is impossible. Asking forgiveness and asking to join comes last.
1. Stop sinning, apart from anger
2. Believe in God
3. Acting it out
4. Stop hating and being angry, let nothing affect you for good or bad, be calm
5. Stopantidepressants, get a clear mind and real emotions without pharma. Then seek God
6. Losing fear totally. Though I may falter for a moment from time to time, if stuff arise.
7. marked by the holy spirit
8.This stuff, learning about the bible and path.
9. Praying and asking to join. But this is down the line, at least a month or two, but it might take years. Must learn enough first, and have the answers I feel I need first. Must be a genuine and informed choice.

What Does the Bible Say About Asking For Forgiveness?

of course .... must be genuine, informed and with a sincere heart.

 

[Aussie Pete]

I agree in principle, but the steps are not true for me personally. I am convinced the holy spirit has marked me, even though I have not asked for forgiveness. I turned away from sin as step 1. The order is assbackwards in my situation. Do you think it must be in a particular order? Why?

As an atheist from birth, your order is impossible. Asking forgiveness and asking to join comes last.
1. Stop sinning, apart from anger
2. Believe in God
3. Acting it out
4. Stop hating and being angry, let nothing affect you for good or bad, be calm
5. Stopantidepressants, get a clear mind and real emotions without pharma. Then seek God
6. Losing fear totally. Though I may falter for a moment from time to time, if stuff arise.
7. marked by the holy spirit
8.This stuff, learning about the bible and path.
9. Praying and asking to join. But this is down the line, at least a month or two, but it might take years. Must learn enough first, and have the answers I feel I need first. Must be a genuine and informed choice.

Your aims are admirable, but, I fear, unachievable. If we could stop sinning, we would not need Jesus. Many people will testify to how their noble intentions failed to translate into actions. Believing in God, sure. Before I was born again, I knew that God was real. It made no difference to me. I even had a prayer answered, so obviously that I had to force myself to pretend that it was coincidence. I was 12 at the time.

Acting like a Christian is fruitless. You may as well train a cat to behave like a dog. Even if it works, it's still a cat.

Stop being angry and hating? Stop being human. That won't happen. What you are proposing is not Christian, it's more eastern mysticism.

Losing fear means that you know that God loves you and there is no doubt in your heart. Until you know God, that's not going to happen

It's good to learn from Christians and study the Bible. You are seeking. Good. You will find. My advice is to pester God until He reveals Himself to you. This world is getting darker and crazier by the day. Christians have God to see them through the coming trials. It's hard enough even if the world stays as it is.

Knowledge is good, but when will you be satisfied? The danger is falling into a never ending cycle of getting an answer then, "Yes, but....." and asking another question. Ask God to open your eyes. He's never said "No" to anyone who truly seeks to know Him.