What does the Bible say on women becoming pastors?

Robin Mauro

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The apostles were men! They had all of the same emotions and feelings as we do. That's the whole point! To show us the Truth through the stories of God and men in the Old Testament and Jesus and men in the New Testament. Only Jesus is perfect, we are all flawed and none without sin.

Paul's words are not debatable, they are the anointed Word of God. You need to be able to discern when a story is being told and when God is speaking through these men. I recommend you find a decent commentary such as Mathew Henry's and seek deliverance from the Liberal brainwashing you've suffered. I will continue to pray for you.
The Bible is not only about men. Are you for real in saying that?!!! What about Esther, Ruth, Sarah, Rachel, women in the New Testament too?
And how about you obeying the instruction to let your gentleness be evident to all?
Being insulting is not what God asks of you.
Again, you do not know me. What I believe is from the Word. Everything in this world is filtered through the Word. And as for your liberal comment, at least liberals obey God's Word about caring for the poor and oppressed. Maybe you should read the Bible for yourself rather than filtering everything through a right- wing agenda which only cares about exploiting others, including women, and the planet, for profit. That is NOT God's love!
 
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Robin Mauro

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That is an interesting take. How would you defend this in light of Luke 10:16, "He who hears you hears Me, he who rejects you rejects Me, and he who rejects Me rejects Him who sent Me.” Paul confirms that what he has to say on this matter are the words of the Lord. Was Paul lying?
Paul did not actually say that everything he said on women was from the Lord. In one case he specified I, meaning what he thought, and on a different topic somewhere he specified it was him speaking, his view, and not the Lord ( I need to find that one), and the scripture he who rejects you rejects me is from Jesus, and about Jesus, not Paul.
 
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hedrick

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Paul did not actually say that everything he said on women was from the Lord. In one case he specified I, meaning what he thought, and on a different topic somewhere he specified it was him speaking, his view, and not the Lord ( I need to find that one), and the scripture he who rejects you rejects me is from Jesus, and about Jesus, not Paul.
You're thinking of 1 Cor 7:10-12, which distinguishes between what the Lord (in this context, Jesus) said and Paul's opinion. What he attributes to Jesus is consistent with a teaching recorded in the Gospels.

1 Cor 11:16 is less direct, but interesting in this context. On hair covering he says if anyone wants to debate, it's just not done that way by churches. He doesn't exactly say that he's not inspired, but that justification implies it.
 
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jahel

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You're thinking of 1 Cor 7:10-12, which distinguishes between what the Lord (in this context, Jesus) said and Paul's opinion. What he attributes to Jesus is consistent with a teaching recorded in the Gospels.

1 Cor 11:16 is less direct, but interesting in this context. On hair covering he says if anyone wants to debate, it's just not done that way by churches. He doesn't exactly say that he's not inspired, but that justification implies it.
And yet Paul went to undo a Nazarite vow to the Lord and had to cut his hair to do so. ?!?
 
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Robin Mauro

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Whoever rejects Jesus rejects the Apostle's Words also, and whoever rejects the Apostle's Words, has already rejected Jesus, according to all Scripture.
So then what do you say to the apostles who disagreed with each other?
That staement /scripture was about rejecting Christ as savior. It was not about disagreements within the church or people debating the meaning of scripture.
This is a good example of taking the Word out of context.
 
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Robin Mauro

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How about women only being saved in child-birth? Does that mean the barren are unsaved?
No.
But it does show that those who have the Spirit can beget others from hearing the word spoken. Paul attests to that too.
Not sure what your point is here, but Adam's punishment was the work of the land, briars and thorns, the sweat of his brow...not that women haven't always worked the land too.
We are excercised through our hardships.
 
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jahel

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Not sure what your point is here, but Adam's punishment was the work of the land, briars and thorns, the sweat of his brow...not that women haven't always worked the land too.
We are excercised through our hardships.
How do you interpret this verse? Does it insure your salvation? How would a person who is incapable of having children interpret it?
. 15Women, however, will be saved through childbearing, if they continue in faith,love, and holiness, with self-control.
 
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Robin Mauro

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You're thinking of 1 Cor 7:10-12, which distinguishes between what the Lord (in this context, Jesus) said and Paul's opinion. What he attributes to Jesus is consistent with a teaching recorded in the Gospels.

1 Cor 11:16 is less direct, but interesting in this context. On hair covering he says if anyone wants to debate, it's just not done that way by churches. He doesn't exactly say that he's not inspired, but that justification implies it.
Thanks for that. I just read 1 Corinthians, all of ch. 7 again. I love that chapter. We are all to submit, for Christ's sake, and for each other.
It seems in stark contrast to where Paul called widowed women wonton, or something like that, which I don't remember again where exactly it is, but I just read it the other day; which again makes me wonder, if in that case ( the wonton comment), Paul was speaking ro specific women because it seems inconsistent with the respect Paul shows in 1 Corinthians ch 7.
In verse 40 of Ch. 7 he also ends with his opinion.
 
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Robin Mauro

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How do you interpret this verse? Does it insure your salvation? How would a person who is incapable of having children interpret it?
. 15Women, however, will be saved through childbearing, if they continue in faith,love, and holiness, with self-control.
Great example of how not every verse applies to every circumstance, or person. Yes, of course women who are unmarried or childless can be saved. See 1 Corinthians ch. 7, which was also written by Paul.
I think Paul was talking about us being perfected by trials, he just left the part about men out...
Which makes me wonder, again, if Paul did not have personal difficulties with the female gender, in general.
 
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hedrick

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How do you interpret this verse? Does it insure your salvation? How would a person who is incapable of having children interpret it?
. 15Women, however, will be saved through childbearing, if they continue in faith,love, and holiness, with self-control.
Understanding of this goes all over the map. Here are some of them:
  • Instead of trying to be leaders, women should stick to having children
  • The correct translation is 'saved through birth of the child referred to in Gen 3:15' [Note that the Greek says "the childbirth", which is a bit odd if it's not referring to birth of a specific child.]
  • Paul was responding to some false teaching. Probably it taught that women shouldn't marry. This was a rejection of that view.
  • It's not "saved" in the sense of Christian salvation, but in the sense of their lives being saved. Childbirth was one of the biggest dangers to women at the time.
I should note that (1) sort of requires a background of Ozzie-and-Harriet American, not a first century agricultural community.
 
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Robin Mauro

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Understanding of this goes all over the map. Here are some of them:
  • Instead of trying to be leaders, women should stick to having children
  • The correct translation is 'saved through birth of the child referred to in Gen 3:15' [Note that the Greek says "the childbirth", which is a bit odd if it's not referring to birth of a specific child.]
  • Paul was responding to some false teaching. Probably it taught that women shouldn't marry. This was a rejection of that view.
  • It's not "saved" in the sense of Christian salvation, but in the sense of their lives being saved. Childbirth was one of the biggest dangers to women at the time.
Wow, the Bible has always been discussed and hotly debated, and it always will be, and that is as it should be; until the day we will all know exactly what everything meant! :) "...though now we see through a foggy glass..."
 
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hedrick

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Wow, the Bible has always been discussed and hotly debated, and it always will be, and that is as it should be; until the day we will all know exactly what everything meant! :) "...though now we see through a foggy glass..."
Sure, but the number of passages like this, where it's not at all clear what was meant, is pretty small. The problem with letters is that we don't know the other side of the conversation. Probably this was a response to some specific view of women's role, but we only have guesses about that.
 
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jahel

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Sure, but the number of passages like this, where it's not at all clear what was meant, is pretty small. The problem with letters is that we don't know the other side of the conversation. Probably this was a response to some specific view of women's role, but we only have guesses about that.
Unfortunately those few verses are the basis for men to sooth their consciences in imitation of the Jewish prayer “thank God I wasn’t born a women” because they knew what it entails. No guesses there.
It’s quite pathetic that law is based on debatable material.
 
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oldhermit

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This argument doesn’t work logically, because every statement even in a conversation has context and requires interpretation. For example, if one man asks another “How are you doing?” they might mean it very seriously, it might be a mere pleasantry, or even a cruel joke, depending on context. This context is only accessible through interpretation and exegesis.

In Scripture, this becomes even more important, because many statements have a spiritual meaning and others a literal meaning, and still others have both, and there are also prophetic remarks concerning future events, some of which have happened and some of which are yet to happen.

The verse in 2 Peter precludes “private interpretation” if translated that way (which is dubious, by the way), which simply relates to Paul in Galatians 1:8 talking about people who preach another Gospel outside the body of the Church he discusses in Corinthians 10. So there is a consensus patrum, a mind of the church, and this is most evident in the Patristic era before certain schisms. This is why I base my interpretation, which is something I cannot logically avoid, because all texts must be interpreted, based on what the early Christians thought it meant, versus what I think it means, because I could be wrong, whereas the people who endowed us with the Nicene Creed and the Canon of the New Testament and endured martyrdoms of unspeakable proportions at the hands of Nero, Commodus, Diocletian, Constantius, Julian the Apostate and other murderous Roman Emperors merit our trust as the people we receive the deposit of faith from, and this idea is well understood in Protestant theology (except among Landmarkists and some related movements).
What you are suggesting is that human reason has the power to assign meaning to scripture even when the language of the text does not support the interpretation. This is nonsense. Human interpretation is by its very nature an anthology of different opinions about any given thing. What makes any one person's interpretation of a text any more valid than that of the next person, who by the way, may have an interpretation that is contradictory to yours? When you remove the language of scripture which represents the mind of God as the standard, then anything goes. The opinions of the Church do not assign meaning to scripture. That right belongs solely to the Almighty. The preaching of another gospel is the result of a departure from the revealed text. This happens when people assign their own meaning to the text rather than allowing the text to supply its own meaning. This elevates human intelligence over revelation.
 
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jahel

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. This elevates human intelligence over revelation.
That’s really the point. Paul is not God. Some of his teaching is definitely Pharisaical, such as women are to be silent according to the law. Please present that law for us in scriptural form. Also if you could give references for everything that your deliberating of Paul’s teaching where it is witnessed again in the bible from another inspired writer.
 
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Strong in Him

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The majority of Christians belong to churches that do not ordain women. Fact.

In the world as a whole; possibly.
I don't think that's true in the UK though; the C of E, Methodists, URC and maybe Baptists, ordain women. The Salvation Army doesn't have ordained Ministers, but women can lead worship, preach and even lead the whole Corps.

If I were ever to become convinced that women shouldn't be ordained, I think the only church I could go to would be the Catholic church. Even if the nearest one wasn't miles away, I would not do that because they have several practices I do not agree with - the gender of their clergy would be the least of my problems.
 
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jahel

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By the Christian churches.


Of course it is.
I said
Allowed by whom?
you said
By the Christian churches.
I said
It's no different than men not wanting to give voting privileges or slaves the right to be free.
you said
Of course it is.
How is it different? And out of curiosity what is the voters list of ecumenical importance balanced men to women? My guess is zero women. The balance according to God’s creation of mankind is not being represented at all. Which is where I stand in the conversation because men will never give up what they consider theirs, to the point of having their own silent clubs that they congregate about.
 
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oldhermit

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Paul did not actually say that everything he said on women was from the Lord. In one case he specified I, meaning what he thought, and on a different topic somewhere he specified it was him speaking, his view, and not the Lord ( I need to find that one), and the scripture he who rejects you rejects me is from Jesus, and about Jesus, not Paul.
The passage you are looking for 1 Cor. 7:12, "But to the rest I, not the Lord, say: If any brother has a wife who does not believe, and she is willing to live with him, let him not divorce her." If this is indeed the opinion of Paul in this matter you must remember that it is the opinion of an inspired writer. Also, it must be noted that this is the ONLY time in any of Paul's writings where he clarifies that what he has said was perhaps his own advice. In 14:37, Paul is quite adamant when he says, "If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord." He is being very clear that what he has said on the matter of conduct in the assembly was not mere personal opinion but divine instruction.

In Luke 10:16, Jesus was instructing the those whom he sent out anyone "...who hears you hears Me, he who rejects you rejects Me, and he who rejects Me rejects Him who sent Me.” Those who will not accept the word of Paul are rejection the word of the Lord." These men were sent out to preach the kingdom of God. The rejection of their teaching was a rejection of Jesus.
 
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jahel

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""If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord." He is being very clear that what he has said on the matter of conduct in the assembly was not mere personal opinion but divine instruction. “

A new testament spiritual prophet wouldn’t have thoughts on law as principals. John never approached the topic that way for instance.

Anyone loving Paul’s mesoginist interpretation according to law and not grace has ulterior motives imo.
 
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