What does the Bible say about the pope / papacy?

Quasar92

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The Roman Catholic Church’s teaching about the pope (“pope” means “father”) is built upon and involves the following Roman Catholic teachings:

1) Christ made Peter the leader of the apostles and of the church (Matthew 16:18-19). In giving Peter the “keys of the kingdom,” Christ not only made him leader, but also made him infallible when he acted or spoke as Christ’s representative on earth (speaking from the seat of authority, or “ex cathedra”). This ability to act on behalf of the church in an infallible way when speaking “ex cathedra” was passed on to Peter’s successors, thus giving the church an infallible guide on earth. The purpose of the papacy is to lead the church unerringly.

2) Peter later became the first bishop of Rome. As bishop of Rome, he exercised authority over all other bishops and church leaders. The teaching that the bishop of Rome is above all other bishops in authority is referred to as the “primacy” of the Roman bishop.

3) Peter passed on his apostolic authority to the next bishop of Rome, along with the other apostles who passed on their apostolic authority to the bishops that they ordained. These new bishops, in turn, passed on that apostolic authority to those bishops that they later ordained, and so on. This “passing on of apostolic authority” is referred to as “apostolic succession.”

4) Based upon the claim of an unbroken chain of Roman bishops, Roman Catholics teach that the Roman Catholic Church is the true church, and that all churches that do not accept the primacy of the pope have broken away from them, the original and one true church.

Having briefly reviewed some of the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church concerning the papacy, the question is whether those teachings are in agreement with Scripture. The Roman Catholic Church sees the papacy and the infallible teaching authority of “Mother Church” as being necessary to guide the church, and uses that as logical reasoning for God’s provision of it. But in examining Scripture, we find the following:

1) While Peter was central in the early spread of the gospel (part of the meaning behind Matthew 16:18-19), the teaching of Scripture, taken in context, nowhere declares that he was in authority over the other apostles or over the church (see Acts 15:1-23; Galatians 2:1-14; 1 Peter 5:1-5). Nor is it ever taught that the bishop of Rome was to have primacy over the church. Rather, there is only one reference in Scripture of Peter writing from “Babylon,” a name sometimes applied to Rome, found in 1 Peter 5:13.

Primarily from this, and the historical rise of the influence of the bishop of Rome (due to the support of Constantine and the Roman emperors who followed him), come the Roman Catholic Church’s teaching of the primacy of the bishop of Rome. However, Scripture shows that Peter’s authority was shared by the other apostles (Ephesians 2:19-20) and that the “loosing and binding” authority attributed to him was likewise shared by the local churches, not just their church leaders (see Matthew 18:15-19; 1 Corinthians 5:1-13; 2 Corinthians 13:10; Titus 2:15; 3:10-11).

2) Nowhere does Scripture state that in order to keep the church from error, the authority of the apostles was passed on to those they ordained (the idea behind apostolic succession). Apostolic succession is “read into” those verses that the Roman Catholic Church uses to support this doctrine (2 Timothy 2:2; 4:2-5; Titus 1:5; 2:1; 2:15; 1 Timothy 5:19-22). What Scripture DOES teach is that false teachings would arise even from among church leaders and that Christians were to compare the teachings of these later church leaders with Scripture, which alone is cited in the Bible as infallible. The Bible does not teach that the apostles were infallible, apart from what was written by them and incorporated into Scripture. Paul, in talking to the church leaders in the large city of Ephesus, makes note of coming false teachers. To fight against their error does NOT commend them to “the apostles and those who would carry on their authority,” but rather to “God and to the word of His grace” (Acts 20:28-32).

Again, the Bible teaches that it is Scripture that is to be used as measuring stick to determine truth from error. In Galatians 1:8-9, Paul states that it is not WHO teaches but WHAT is being taught that is to be used to determine truth from error. While the Roman Catholic Church continues to pronounce a curse to hell, or “anathema,” upon those who would reject the authority of the pope, Scripture reserves that curse for those who would teach a different gospel (Galatians 1:8-9).

3) While the Roman Catholic Church sees apostolic succession as logically necessary in order for God to unerringly guide the church, Scripture states that God has provided for His church through the following:
(a) Infallible Scripture, (Acts 20:32; 2 Timothy 3:15-17; Matthew 5:18; John 10:35; Acts 17:10-12; Isaiah 8:20; 40:8; etc.) Note: Peter speaks of Paul’s writings in the same category as other Scripture (2 Peter 3:16),
(b) Christ’s unending high-priesthood in heaven (Hebrews 7:22-28),
(c) The provision of the Holy Spirit who guided the apostles into truth after Christ’s death (John 16:12-14), who gifts believers for the work of the ministry, including teaching (Romans 12:3-8; Ephesians 4:11-16), and who uses the written word as His chief tool (Hebrews 4:12; Ephesians 6:17).

While there have been good (humanly speaking) and moral men who have served as pope of the Roman Catholic Church, including Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI, the Roman Catholic Church teaching about the office of the pope should be rejected because it is not “in continuity” with the teachings of the original church related to us in the New Testament. This comparison of any church’s teaching is essential, lest we miss the New Testament’s teaching concerning the gospel, and not only miss eternal life in heaven ourselves, but unwittingly lead others down the wrong path (Galatians 1:8-9).

Recommended Resources: Logos Bible Software and The Gospel According to Rome: Comparing Catholic Tradition and the Word of God by James McCarthy.

Source: gotquestions.org


Quasar92
 

Gregory Thompson

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I tend to look at the pope from gentiles fulfilling the patterns of the jewish history, the pope is like the kings of israel, instituting them was an act of rebellion, but God worked with the kings whose hearts were living towards him.
.
Now, we're in the time of the captivity fulfillment wise, but the mimickry of the precursor to Christ's time shouldn't be too far off.
 
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Neal of Zebulun

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I was pondering over this verse earlier. Can someone post a second witness? I'm sure you can see the relevance.

Matthew 23:
9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
 
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Blood Bought 1953

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I was pondering over this verse earlier. Can someone post a second witness? I'm sure you can see the relevance.

Matthew 23:
9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

One could fill a warehouse with erroneous teachings of the Catholic Church...the verse you chose should be obvious...Peter,of course is a valuable teacher but the Bible says we are to follow Paul.....as he follows Christ! Peter, who stated that Paul’s writings were Scriptual would not refute Paul’s mission .
 
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Goatee

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One could fill a warehouse with erroneous teachings of the Catholic Church...the verse you chose should be obvious...Peter,of course is a valuable teacher but the Bible says we are to follow Paul.....as he follows Christ! Peter, who stated that Paul’s writings were Scriptual would not refute Paul’s mission .

One could fill 2 warehouses with the erroneous teachings from non-Catholics about Catholicism!
 
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Blood Bought 1953

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One could fill 2 warehouses with the erroneous teachings from non-Catholics about Catholicism!

Oh yeah?....well, one could fill THREE warehouses with.....hey, wait a second——this could go on forever....Surprising Goatee, I know where you are coming from.....I used to work with a guy who was Catholic he eloquently destroyed some other guy who was spouting the usual anti-Catholic nonsense,like all Catholics are damned etc.I knew one Catholic fellow and everytime I ran into him and I mean EVERYTIME I saw him all he wanted to talk about was “Jesus”.I mean it was crazy.He was so over-the-top about it and you just knew he didn’t care what others thought.I loved it.He is gone now—-in Heaven with the only one he ever thought about.I disagree strongly with many Catholics, but I know a saved Believer when I talk to one
 
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Albion

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One point. While the church believed in Apostolic Succession by the latter part of the first century, and I and my church do also, it ought to be said that:

Whether or not Peter was the first bishop of Rome, he definitely did not pass on anything to Linus, who is considered to be the second.

Even the RCC itself admits that Peter had not made Linus, a friend of his, a bishop. Linus wasn't even in Rome at the time Peter died. The townsmen had to decide whom to turn to and then sent for him.

That pattern was continued for the next thousand years, but as for Apostolic Succession, it was apparently broken, in the case of the church at Rome, with Peter's death.
 
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Goatee

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One point. While the church believed in Apostolic Succession by the latter part of the first century, and I and my church do also, it ought to be said that:

Whether or not Peter was the first bishop of Rome, he definitely did not pass on anything to Linus, who is considered to be the second.

Even the RCC itself admits that Peter had not made Linus, a friend of his, a bishop. Linus wasn't even in Rome at the time Peter died. The townsmen had to decide whom to turn to and then sent for him.

That pattern was continued for the next thousand years, but as for Apostolic Succession, it was apparently broken, in the case of the church at Rome, with Peter's death.

But, the Holy Spirit was still involved! This is the important part of it.
 
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Albion

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But, the Holy Spirit was still involved! This is the important part of it.
No one becomes a bishop--per the policy and beliefs of any of the churches that adhere to Apostolic Succession--without being consecrated by one who is already consecrated a bishop. That's what Apostolic SUCCESSION is about.
 
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Goatee

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No one becomes a bishop--per the policy and beliefs of any of the churches that adhere to Apostolic Succession--without being consecrated by one who is already consecrated a bishop. That's what Apostolic SUCCESSION is about.

That's why the CC can trace its Popes right back to Peter.

How old is the Anglican church?

Don't u have women priests? Is that Biblical?
 
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Albion

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And a lot more from the different Anglican one too! Lol
Shall we list all the denominations that exist? :rolleyes:

Just joking. The point was that many non-Catholics had been Catholic a lot longer than most of the younger Catholics who like to brag about their church have been.
 
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Albion

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That's why the CC can trace its Popes right back to Peter.
Sure, you do. That doesn't make it historically accurate. You could trace your Popes, even those who had no idea that they were going to be called Popes years after their deaths, back to anyone else the church chose to pick on. Peter obviously seemed most likely, when the decision was made in the 400s, since the city of Rome was the capitol of the Roman Empire and was associated with both Peter and Paul.

How old is the Anglican church?
Approximately 1975 years old. As a matter of fact, 5 Roman Catholic councils declared the church to be the oldest Christian church in the Gentile world. That would make it older than the church in Rome, interestingly enough.

Don't u have women priests? Is that Biblical?
My church doesn't, no. We don't consider that to be Biblical.

Some Catholic churches have women priests, too.
 
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Root of Jesse

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The Roman Catholic Church’s teaching about the pope (“pope” means “father”) is built upon and involves the following Roman Catholic teachings:

1) Christ made Peter the leader of the apostles and of the church (Matthew 16:18-19). In giving Peter the “keys of the kingdom,” Christ not only made him leader, but also made him infallible when he acted or spoke as Christ’s representative on earth (speaking from the seat of authority, or “ex cathedra”). This ability to act on behalf of the church in an infallible way when speaking “ex cathedra” was passed on to Peter’s successors, thus giving the church an infallible guide on earth. The purpose of the papacy is to lead the church unerringly.
Well, no. Jesus said that He would send the Holy Spirit to guide the Church and protect it from error.
2) Peter later became the first bishop of Rome. As bishop of Rome, he exercised authority over all other bishops and church leaders. The teaching that the bishop of Rome is above all other bishops in authority is referred to as the “primacy” of the Roman bishop.
Again, not quite. The primacy of Peter is what made Rome the center of the Church.
3) Peter passed on his apostolic authority to the next bishop of Rome, along with the other apostles who passed on their apostolic authority to the bishops that they ordained. These new bishops, in turn, passed on that apostolic authority to those bishops that they later ordained, and so on. This “passing on of apostolic authority” is referred to as “apostolic succession.”

4) Based upon the claim of an unbroken chain of Roman bishops, Roman Catholics teach that the Roman Catholic Church is the true church, and that all churches that do not accept the primacy of the pope have broken away from them, the original and one true church.

Having briefly reviewed some of the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church concerning the papacy, the question is whether those teachings are in agreement with Scripture. The Roman Catholic Church sees the papacy and the infallible teaching authority of “Mother Church” as being necessary to guide the church, and uses that as logical reasoning for God’s provision of it. But in examining Scripture, we find the following:

1) While Peter was central in the early spread of the gospel (part of the meaning behind Matthew 16:18-19), the teaching of Scripture, taken in context, nowhere declares that he was in authority over the other apostles or over the church (see Acts 15:1-23; Galatians 2:1-14; 1 Peter 5:1-5). Nor is it ever taught that the bishop of Rome was to have primacy over the church. Rather, there is only one reference in Scripture of Peter writing from “Babylon,” a name sometimes applied to Rome, found in 1 Peter 5:13.

Primarily from this, and the historical rise of the influence of the bishop of Rome (due to the support of Constantine and the Roman emperors who followed him), come the Roman Catholic Church’s teaching of the primacy of the bishop of Rome. However, Scripture shows that Peter’s authority was shared by the other apostles (Ephesians 2:19-20) and that the “loosing and binding” authority attributed to him was likewise shared by the local churches, not just their church leaders (see Matthew 18:15-19; 1 Corinthians 5:1-13; 2 Corinthians 13:10; Titus 2:15; 3:10-11).
Peter was head of the apostles, but they were his equals. They each had the authority Peter had, as long as they were all in agreement. In Acts 15, they looked to Peter to ratify the decision of the Council of Jerusalem.
2) Nowhere does Scripture state that in order to keep the church from error, the authority of the apostles was passed on to those they ordained (the idea behind apostolic succession). Apostolic succession is “read into” those verses that the Roman Catholic Church uses to support this doctrine (2 Timothy 2:2; 4:2-5; Titus 1:5; 2:1; 2:15; 1 Timothy 5:19-22). What Scripture DOES teach is that false teachings would arise even from among church leaders and that Christians were to compare the teachings of these later church leaders with Scripture, which alone is cited in the Bible as infallible. The Bible does not teach that the apostles were infallible, apart from what was written by them and incorporated into Scripture. Paul, in talking to the church leaders in the large city of Ephesus, makes note of coming false teachers. To fight against their error does NOT commend them to “the apostles and those who would carry on their authority,” but rather to “God and to the word of His grace” (Acts 20:28-32).
But Jesus did say that he would send the Holy Spirit to guide them, right? The Holy Spirit actually ordains the bishops.
Again, the Bible teaches that it is Scripture that is to be used as measuring stick to determine truth from error. In Galatians 1:8-9, Paul states that it is not WHO teaches but WHAT is being taught that is to be used to determine truth from error. While the Roman Catholic Church continues to pronounce a curse to hell, or “anathema,” upon those who would reject the authority of the pope, Scripture reserves that curse for those who would teach a different gospel (Galatians 1:8-9).
Not really. The Catholic Church is interested in saving as many souls as possible, and an anathema is nothing more than a warning.
3) While the Roman Catholic Church sees apostolic succession as logically necessary in order for God to unerringly guide the church, Scripture states that God has provided for His church through the following:
(a) Infallible Scripture, (Acts 20:32; 2 Timothy 3:15-17; Matthew 5:18; John 10:35; Acts 17:10-12; Isaiah 8:20; 40:8; etc.) Note: Peter speaks of Paul’s writings in the same category as other Scripture (2 Peter 3:16),
(b) Christ’s unending high-priesthood in heaven (Hebrews 7:22-28),
(c) The provision of the Holy Spirit who guided the apostles into truth after Christ’s death (John 16:12-14), who gifts believers for the work of the ministry, including teaching (Romans 12:3-8; Ephesians 4:11-16), and who uses the written word as His chief tool (Hebrews 4:12; Ephesians 6:17).
Not only that, the Church believes that God speaks through the Church, to this day.
While there have been good (humanly speaking) and moral men who have served as pope of the Roman Catholic Church, including Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI, the Roman Catholic Church teaching about the office of the pope should be rejected because it is not “in continuity” with the teachings of the original church related to us in the New Testament. This comparison of any church’s teaching is essential, lest we miss the New Testament’s teaching concerning the gospel, and not only miss eternal life in heaven ourselves, but unwittingly lead others down the wrong path (Galatians 1:8-9).
You would need to show how the Church is not in continuity with the teachings of the original Church...
Recommended Resources: Logos Bible Software and The Gospel According to Rome: Comparing Catholic Tradition and the Word of God by James McCarthy.

Source: gotquestions.org


Quasar92
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Blood Bought 1953 said:
One could fill a warehouse with erroneous teachings of the Catholic Church...
One could fill 2 warehouses with the erroneous teachings from non-Catholics about Catholicism!
Oh yeah?....well, one could fill THREE warehouses with.....hey, wait a second——this could go on forever...
Now, now, be nice. Would make for interesting discussion threads.......

Protestant errors and inventions
Protestant errors and inventions

Roman church errors and inventions
Roman church errors and inventions
 
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Root of Jesse

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I was pondering over this verse earlier. Can someone post a second witness? I'm sure you can see the relevance.

Matthew 23:
9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
you have to put it in the context of the verses around it. He was talking about the scribes and pharisees taking the places of most importance. He says they love their positions and love to be called Rabbi. He instructs the apostles not to think of themselves as important. They that wish to be first must serve those who are the least. Whoever exalts himself will be humbled; but whoever humbles himself will be exalted.
 
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W2L

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They that wish to be first must serve those who are the least. Whoever exalts himself will be humbled; but whoever humbles himself will be exalted.
In my opinion, this is the Lords criteria for a teacher. He must be least. You cant become the least by going to seminary school, bible school, or by getting a theological degree. You are a teacher if God chooses you, and humbles you.
 
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Root of Jesse

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Oh yeah?....well, one could fill THREE warehouses with.....hey, wait a second——this could go on forever....Surprising Goatee, I know where you are coming from.....I used to work with a guy who was Catholic he eloquently destroyed some other guy who was spouting the usual anti-Catholic nonsense,like all Catholics are damned etc.I knew one Catholic fellow and everytime I ran into him and I mean EVERYTIME I saw him all he wanted to talk about was “Jesus”.I mean it was crazy.He was so over-the-top about it and you just knew he didn’t care what others thought.I loved it.He is gone now—-in Heaven with the only one he ever thought about.I disagree strongly with many Catholics, but I know a saved Believer when I talk to one
It is true that many Catholics don't practice their faith worth a darn. But how people practice, and what the Church actually teaches, are often two different things.
It is said that one of the most dangerous places in the world is the parking lot of a Catholic church after Mass. The last thing the priest says is "go forth and spread the Gospel", and these folks fly out of the lot with one finger waving at everyone else.
It is understandable to criticize Catholics for not being Catholic, but Goatee and I are here to correct those errors he's talking about. I am not going to change anyone's mind here. I just want to make sure they know what we actually believe and do.
 
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