What does Orthodoxy think of.....

[Light of the East]

the Rosary? And all other Roman devotions, such as the Green Scapular and the Brown Scapular?

My wife came down to the kitchen this morning and started to carry on about joining in some sort of Rosary campaign. 90 days of daily Rosary prayer, accompanied by wearing our Scapulars. (I DO NOT have one!!)

The way I hear Romans talk about the Rosary, Scapulars, and other devotions, it is as if you do them faithfully and God MUST grant you what you are praying for. This seems to me to be A.) superstition B.) denial of God's will C.) placing of our will over His.

We pray, we submit to His answer.....but to infer that any prayer has some sort of power that God absolutely must respond according to our wishes.....is deeply troubling to me.

And the other thing is that I have really lost my zeal for any of the Roman devotionals, the Rosary, etc. I was all afire when I first converted (you know how converts are, right?). Now...I just cannot get excited about them.

This, of course, is going to cause massive problems with my wife if and when she discovers that I don't think the Rosary is something special.

So what do you think of the Rosary and what would your suggestion be? Do I pray it and simply recognize it as a legitimate form of imploring God? And yes, the Jesus Prayer is part of my prayer life. Along with prostrations. And anything else Eastern I can learn.

Thanks for your answers. And please

RESPONSES ONLY FROM ORTHODOX BELIEVERS !!!!

 

[FenderTL5]

the Rosary? And all other Roman devotions, such as the Green Scapular and the Brown Scapular?

My wife came down to the kitchen this morning and started to carry on about joining in some sort of Rosary campaign. 90 days of daily Rosary prayer, accompanied by wearing our Scapulars. (I DO NOT have one!!)

The way I hear Romans talk about the Rosary, Scapulars, and other devotions, it is as if you do them faithfully and God MUST grant you what you are praying for. This seems to me to be A.) superstition B.) denial of God's will C.) placing of our will over His.

We pray, we submit to His answer.....but to infer that any prayer has some sort of power that God absolutely must respond according to our wishes.....is deeply troubling to me.

And the other thing is that I have really lost my zeal for any of the Roman devotionals, the Rosary, etc. I was all afire when I first converted (you know how converts are, right?). Now...I just cannot get excited about them.

This, of course, is going to cause massive problems with my wife if and when she discovers that I don't think the Rosary is something special.

So what do you think of the Rosary and what would your suggestion be? Do I pray it and simply recognize it as a legitimate form of imploring God? And yes, the Jesus Prayer is part of my prayer life. Along with prostrations. And anything else Eastern I can learn.

Thanks for your answers. And please

RESPONSES ONLY FROM ORTHODOX BELIEVERS !!!!

First, to be fair, I don't know the official church position on this. I'm still somewhat new to Orthodoxy (it's only been four years ) and I'm really uncomfortable even pretending to be answering on behalf of the Church.

That said, I walked past St Mary's in downtown Nashville yesterday and some parishioners were handing out free Rosaries. What they were handing out looked a lot like an Orthodox 'prayer rope' that one of our young parishioners made and gave to me.
I would presume the 'device' itself is immaterial, it's the prayers and the usage/application that would differ.
Just my thought.

 

[WadeTheophan]

the Rosary? And all other Roman devotions, such as the Green Scapular and the Brown Scapular?

My wife came down to the kitchen this morning and started to carry on about joining in some sort of Rosary campaign. 90 days of daily Rosary prayer, accompanied by wearing our Scapulars. (I DO NOT have one!!)

The way I hear Romans talk about the Rosary, Scapulars, and other devotions, it is as if you do them faithfully and God MUST grant you what you are praying for. This seems to me to be A.) superstition B.) denial of God's will C.) placing of our will over His.

We pray, we submit to His answer.....but to infer that any prayer has some sort of power that God absolutely must respond according to our wishes.....is deeply troubling to me.

And the other thing is that I have really lost my zeal for any of the Roman devotionals, the Rosary, etc. I was all afire when I first converted (you know how converts are, right?). Now...I just cannot get excited about them.

This, of course, is going to cause massive problems with my wife if and when she discovers that I don't think the Rosary is something special.

So what do you think of the Rosary and what would your suggestion be? Do I pray it and simply recognize it as a legitimate form of imploring God? And yes, the Jesus Prayer is part of my prayer life. Along with prostrations. And anything else Eastern I can learn.

Thanks for your answers. And please

RESPONSES ONLY FROM ORTHODOX BELIEVERS !!!!

I am ignorant of rosaries and I could comment at length on what you’ve said but not at the moment. I would like to share this fantastic link to a little you tube vid of Fr Maxim Lysack about the Jesus Prayer. It’s pretty dead on target I think.

 

[All4Christ]

I know some prefer to avoid the rosary since we have many older prayers that developed organically in Orthodoxy (such as the Jesus prayer and Akathist to the Theotokos), and the meditation portion can have some spiritual dangers. That said, the Western Rite Orthodox Christians do use the rosary regularly. Online there are some guides to adaptation for Orthodoxy. My personal thought is that the practice is not wrong in and of itself if done properly, though it is important to evaluate all spiritual practices, and especially is important to be cautious with any meditation without spiritual oversight and guidance. I prefer the Jesus Prayer or a combination of the two but that’s just me.

ETA - it certainly isn’t a required devotion and doesn’t gain you merit over other prayer.

 

[All4Christ]

I am ignorant of rosaries and I could comment at length on what you’ve said but not at the moment. I would like to share this fantastic link to a little you tube vid of Fr Maxim Lysack about the Jesus Prayer. It’s pretty dead on target I think.

Welcome to TAW and Christian Forums!

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

This seems to me to be A.) superstition B.) denial of God's will C.) placing of our will over His.

COOL !

 

[gzt]

St Seraphim of Sarov essentially recommended the Rosary. However, there are different ways of doing it - I don't think we'd recommend the sort of Ignatian fantasizing about the mysteries of the rosary so much. I don't know what scapulars entail so I won't comment.

 

[All4Christ]

I don't think we'd recommend the sort of Ignatian fantasizing about the mysteries of the rosary so much.

That’s the primary part I’ve been taught to avoid or minimize. I think there are some additional mysteries that were added later as well. Some guides say to skip those ones.

 

[Anhelyna]

The green scapular - all I know about it is that it is intended to be used/worn as a help/aid to Conversion.

Not an Eastern [ Catholic or Orthodox ] practice at all. Many RC Priests I know, regard the practice of putting it under a Non-Catholic's mattress as superstition and I've definitely seen the rolling of eyes when it has been mentioned in those circumstances.

 

[~Anastasia~]

I definitely agree that the whole idea of scapulars (as far as I can understand what I've heard) sounds like nothing but superstition and the idea that we can manipulate God. Orthodoxy would not support this kind of thinking. (It's like the idea too of burying a statue of St. Joseph in the yard of a house so it will supposedly sell? Do Catholics actually believe/do this, I've wondered?)

As to the physical rosary itself, I suppose there's nothing wrong with using it as a counting tool as we might a prayer rope. Though for my own experience, I prefer the sameness of the knots and a lack of anything to interrupt my prayers when using a prayer rope. My favorite one has no beads or tassel or cross at all ... just knots. But that's just me.

I've heard of the imaginations others mentioned that are supposed to be used when praying the rosary. Orthodoxy specifically teaches us to AVOID such imaginations and any images when praying, because it can lead to certain problems and deceptions.

 

[gzt]

Yes, when I've heard Ignation meditation described, it sounds like it's an okay way of reading a narrative text - but should not be the only way you read and you should be quite wary of any insight or novelty you get out of it. Doing that with the rosary doesn't sound like something that fits with Orthodox spirituality I've seen.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I think gzt nailed it when he said the danger is the imagination or fantasy involved. I don't think any Rosary prayers are wrong of themselves, it's just the post Middle Ages theology can get wacky.

 

[WadeTheophan]

Welcome to TAW and Christian Forums!

Thanks!

 

[~Anastasia~]

I am ignorant of rosaries and I could comment at length on what you’ve said but not at the moment. I would like to share this fantastic link to a little you tube vid of Fr Maxim Lysack about the Jesus Prayer. It’s pretty dead on target I think.

Let me add my welcome to All4Christ's! We are glad to have you join us.

I hope you'll come back and share more thoughts on this when you have a chance, but looking forward to watching the video. Thanks for sharing!

 

[ArmyMatt]

indeed, welcome to TAW!

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

When I became Orthodox, I thought I’d still go to pray local Stations of the Cross, but I found after two years of that , it just wasn’t helpful. I found my mind wandering to thoughts about east vs. west, papal defects, the origins of the stations, and then reminiscing about my former Catholic life, and my thoughts were a bit chaotic and goofy. I realized the chord just needed to be CUT! I gave all my Catholic books to Catholic friends. I still have my rosaries, and I respect the rosary a great deal. I used to pray it in concert with INDULGENCES and PURGATORY, so for me that rosary conjures thoughts of a theology I’ve long since discarded that was not Orthodox and unhelpful at this point in my life. After each decade the Fatima prayer is said, and that prayer has too much western residue for me. Apart from that, the rosary is quite lovely.

Scapulars are bizarre. They always struck me the way the OP characterized them—-a genie granting wishes so to speak. I never bought into them even years back....

Maybe you could meet your wife halfway? You pray the rosary with her if she’ll read some Orthodox writings with you.

 

[Anhelyna]

I have only 1 Rosary - and I'll never part with it - it's a black Brigittine one and was given to me by a Canadian who had had it blessed by St John Paul II when he visited Canada. It was actually held by him and not blessed in the usual mass blessings.My Canadian friend was granted an audience with St JP II and was able to speak with him for some time and at the end of that he asked him to hold and bless this Rosary.

I've still all my books - but then they are Liturgical and are common to both Catholicism and Orthodoxy.

I think Gurney's idea of perhaps a meeting half way is good one - and it could well work .

OH a thought - how about showing her the Morning Prayer of the Optina Elders ? There's nothing in that that would worry her I'm sure, and it's a beautiful prayer. That's something you could both share and use

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Interesting you bring up the rosary having been blessed by Pope JP2....

My mom and dad went to Rome and brought me back a lovely wooden rosary that was blessed ny JP2 as well. I cherish it.

I have only 1 Rosary - and I'll never part with it - it's a black Brigittine one and was given to me by a Canadian who had had it blessed by St John Paul II when he visited Canada. It was actually held by him and not blessed in the usual mass blessings.My Canadian friend was granted an audience with St JP II and was able to speak with him for some time and at the end of that he asked him to hold and bless this Rosary.

I've still all my books - but then they are Liturgical and are common to both Catholicism and Orthodoxy.

I think Gurney's idea of perhaps a meeting half way is good one - and it could well work .

OH a thought - how about showing her the Morning Prayer of the Optina Elders ? There's nothing in that that would worry her I'm sure, and it's a beautiful prayer. That's something you could both share and use