Yes, self-consciousness and certainly shame entered the scene with the fall of man. Shame of self, of who we naturally are in our created state, was apparently the result of wanting to be like God- while their bodies attested to the fact that they were creatures, and definitely not the Creator. So what did they do? They covered up. Transparency, innocence, were lost.
Where does the bible say they cannot commit sin-unless for some encouraging hyperbole at best maybe? And if salvation consists, ultimately, in complete union with God in heaven, then we can still decide whether or not we really want that relationship as his adopted children now. A saved person can always jump back in the water- or in front of another car.
Well, yes, we can all trade verses supporting what we believe to be true-a very common thing here on the forums and elsewhere as we all know.
Actually the union must take place, or begin, here, and then to be fully consumated in the next life (1 Cor 13:12). That reconciliation and union is the basis of our salvation.
Probably true, in regard to tasting of the heavenly gift. And yet we know that God's forgiveness is always available for anyone with a truly repentant heart. And John speaks of confessing sin and Jesus purifying us of all unrighteousness. So, it's up to Him, of course. Anyway, it's a journey, IMO, and a battle at times-but a good and worthy one, towards an incomparably good end.
I agree again. Forgiveness and repentance is the boarding of the plane.....once in the air, there is no turning back to walking again....and things can go wrong on the plane......therefore we are not saved, until you land at your destination....and after landing, you will not be transported back to your former state. And if you die on the plane......... Lets just reach the destination alive.....and leave the dying for the dead.
And I have no idea who may have implied anything otherwise. I use as many Scriptural verses, for example, as anyone else to support my positions.
As I said the union must begin here. Otherwise no salvation will occur. But can we disunite? Can we throw ourselves in front of a car by returning to the flesh? Well, according to Scripture, yes, which is why there are so many warnings and admonitions against doing such a thing. The church in the east and west has historically understood that grace is absolutely necessary in order to be saved, that man can do nothing apart from God, but that, beginning in Eden, man can oppose and thwart Gods will for his life. And by our choices and actions we show where our hearts really lie, whether or not we truly remain in Him, whether or not we place God first above all else. So the church teaches that man's will continues to be involved as he works out his salvation in this life with He who works in us, with the grace he's been given. So a teaching goes:
I've experiences the opposite on these forums. I doubt you would find one person who would say that it is possible to not sin after being "saved". I've learned here that the only difference between the saved and the sinner is that the sins of the saves are forgiving now and will be in the future.
Some sin is addictive. Is the Lord merciful to those who backslide? If an alcoholic falls off the wagon does the Lord condemn him or tell him to get back on?
Exactly.. we cannot serve two masters which follow opposing philosophies. Ask the Church that abandoned the government of God to team up with the government of man. The result was allegiance to the institution was more important than to God. Ask the burnt corpses that preferred scripture over institution. It dropped reference to the Kingdom of God as Jesus' gospel and inserted itself as a proxy. There is no worldly proxy for the ways of man run contrary to the will of God. What does it mean to walk in the spirit? It means to walk without worldly legs.
