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The context of my posts here in this thread show I am speaking of a regenerated person who's responsibility is to exercise strict self-control to change himself. God does not kill the old man we do through self control. Paul tells us many times that we are do that job. I have given several verses that show this and you have given none to show we don't. You are also wrong that our behavior can't cause us to lose our salvation because; Hebrews 10:26-27 (NLT)I guess you mistake me for someone else then.
Actually, you can't change yourself. You need to be born again. You can't simply decide to become another person, God must kill the old man and give birth to a new one.
But you can adjust your behaviour. If you believe you're a sinner, you'll sin like sinners do. Just like the elephant who thinks the chain is too strong, doesn't escape even though he's actually free to go.
Your behaviour didn't save you, and so naturally it won't "unsave" you.
Paul writes that we are crucified with Christ, "baptized into his death." And "how much more" we are to LIVE by him, now that the old man is dead etc. We can't change ourselves, we were sinners by nature and had to die and be born again. A new spirit, a new you. Your flesh, where sin lives, won't go to heaven. We can, however, let our minds be renewed. For example, I was used to stealing and lying and using drugs, and even though my spirit was new and free, it took some time to get my mind adjusted to the new life.The context of my posts here in this thread show I am speaking of a regenerated person who's responsibility is to exercise strict self-control to change himself. God does not kill the old man we do through self control. Paul tells us many times that we are do that job. I have given several verses that show this and you have given none to show we don't.
I could surely give you a heap of quotes that speak of salvation by grace through faith etc etc, and it wouldn't make us agree any moreYou are also wrong that our behavior can't cause us to lose our salvation because; Hebrews 10:26-27 (NLT)
Either you've never sinned deliberately after being saved (which I'm sure you have), or this verse isn't about you and me, at the time and place we are at. I've sinned deliberately and repeatedly after being saved, especially when I thought I was a "saved sinner" as opposed to a righteous man, which I am. I'm still saved though. Therefore, these verses must be about someone or something else.Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received a full knowledge of the truth, there is no other sacrifice that will cover these sins. [27] There will be nothing to look forward to but the terrible expectation of God's judgment and the raging fire that will consume his enemies.
I don't mourn my sin, because it's as far from me as the east is from the west. I'm just happy that it's gone
I've mourned, and I've been comforted, and I'm not going to mourn again just so that I can be comforted more... heh. I also don't think we're hurting God as much as ourselves and our fellow man. I can't harm God. I can't give him anything or take anything from him, and I'm afraid the idea of "hurting" God will add to people's guilty and unproductive feelings about themselves.
How true! But I must add that He has forgiven all sins, not just those before I accepted Him as my Saviour. Jesus died on the cross nearly 2000 years ago long before any of us was ever born, yet our sins have been forgiven--all of them; the sins in our past, the sins that we comit in the present time and for all those sins that will come.When we initially repent God then forgives us for all the sins that we have commited, He puts His Spirit in us so that we may walk in righteousness, that is obediance to Him, or to put it another way, it is "faith working through love."
Oh, for this, does not the author of Hebrews say: "As for the sins that we may commit after he has given us His Spirit, these require fresh repentance and a mourning over the sin that was commited, this is what Paul said to the church of corinth in his second epistle, he said that they had a "godly grief," he didn`t say it was bad for them to feel grieved about what they did, but rather that this was good and correct for them as christians.
Mark
I agree that repentance and "godly grief" has a place in the walk of the believer - at the last supper Jesus talked about the need to wash our feet even though we were clean otherwise. I think that means that we are clean, we are righteous, we are his children, but our feet still touch the dusty ground. Perhaps washing each other's feet can be compared to confessing our shortcoming to each other, and forgiving them.When we initially repent God then forgives us for all the sins that we have commited, He puts His Spirit in us so that we may walk in righteousness, that is obediance to Him, or to put it another way, it is "faith working through love."
A for the sins that we may commit after he has given us His Spirit, these require fresh repentance and a mourning over the sin that was commited, this is what Paul said to the church of corinth in his second epistle, he said that they had a "godly grief," he didn`t say it was bad for them to feel grieved about what they did, but rather that this was good and correct for them as christians.
Mark
How true! But I must add that He has forgiven all sins, not just those before I accepted Him as my Saviour. Jesus died on the cross nearly 2000 years ago long before any of us was ever born, yet our sins have been forgiven--all of them; the sins in our past, the sins that we comit in the present time and for all those sins that will come.
We need to acknowledge that we did indeed sin, but not to ask for forgiveness, but to give thanks to the forgiveness that has already been given to us.I won`t say that He has forgiven us all our sins in terms of those that we commit after we are born again, mainly I guess because Jesus Himself says that each of us is to pray "forgive us our tresspasses as we forgive those who tresspass against us," if our sins are already forgiven then why are we told to pray and ask for forgivness of our sins?
Also Jesus says that if we do not forgive our brother from our heart then neither will our heavenly Father forgive us, it would appear that this is a sin for which we can not earn repentance unless we forgive our brother from the heart.
Finally as jesus also says in revelation to the Ephiasians, "but I have this against you, you have lost your first love, repent therefore and do the deeds you did at first."
These scriptures it would appear to me say that we still need to pray for forgiveness when we sin.
Mark
I agree that repentance and "godly grief" has a place in the walk of the believer - at the last supper Jesus talked about the need to wash our feet even though we were clean otherwise. I think that means that we are clean, we are righteous, we are his children, but our feet still touch the dusty ground. Perhaps washing each other's feet can be compared to confessing our shortcoming to each other, and forgiving them.
That's the wrong attitude.Yep. When I've done something wrong, I don't need to ask God to forgive me (though I tend to do so anyway, btw), but I (should) ask for forgiveness from the one I've wronged.
Oh, and when I sin, I may be my own victim, so sometimes I need to forgive myself as well
We need to acknowledge that we did indeed sin, but not to ask for forgiveness, but to give thanks to the forgiveness that has already been given to us.
That's the wrong attitude.
You need to acknowled to God that you know that you have transgressed, and that you'll try to do better in the future.
And yes, you should ask for forgiveness from those whom you've wronged.
Russ
Yep. When I've done something wrong, I don't need to ask God to forgive me (though I tend to do so anyway, btw), but I (should) ask for forgiveness from the one I've wronged.
Oh, and when I sin, I may be my own victim, so sometimes I need to forgive myself as well
Actually, I don't think I even have to decide to try to be better. His grace is given, no matter how I feel or think about it. But of course, being forgiven does something to you, it inspires you. And, if you feel bad about what you did, it sort of follows that you'll try to avoid it in the future.That's the wrong attitude.
You need to acknowled to God that you know that you have transgressed, and that you'll try to do better in the future.
We have been declared righteous because our sin has been washed away by the blood of Jesus Christ (Rev. 1:5).
We are still sinners, but "forgiven sinners".
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