What Does It Mean that Women Will Be Saved through Childbearing? (1 Timothy 2)

[nana_5848]

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[Dustoff]

Childbirth down through history has been in many ways a risky endevour. Even today with the medical advances it is not always simple and easy. All the passage means is that women who are walking in obedience to their Lord can look to him through prayer and faith to get them safely through it.

 

[sandman]

Hey, sorry I'm not sure where I should post this.

So, if the meaning is literal, and it means all women have to marry and have children, doesn't that contradict Corinthians A' 7:34, and when Jesus said that if possible, it's better not to marry (or was he only talking about men, cause the example he gave was exclusively a male thing)? Also the Apostle Paul (I think) said that it is better to remain single like him (or could he also be referring to men?).

You are taking it out of context ....If you want, I can post the context ....it's a bit long

 

[Friedrich Rubinstein]

John Piper has a good explanation of this verse on his website. It's worth reading.

How Are Women Saved Through Childbearing?

 

[Dustoff]

The greek word "saved" used in the passage can be translated as saved, healed, preserved. It is the same word used in James 5. The prayer of faith will "save" the sick. In this passage it means preserved. Women walking obediantly with the Lord (like we all should be) can look to the Lord to be "preserved' safely through childbirth.

The word used here has nothing to do with a womens salvation.
Zip zero nada nein nothing zilch.

 

[sandman]

John Piper has a good explanation of this verse on his website. It's worth reading.

How Are Women Saved Through Childbearing?

I expect better from Piper..... I know he didn't write this but... he half heartedly endorses it.

 

[nana_5848]

I expect better from Piper..... I know he didn't write this but... he half heartedly endorses it.

The greek word "saved" used in the passage can be translated as saved, healed, preserved. It is the same word used in James 5. The prayer of faith will "save" the sick. In this passage it means preserved. Women walking obediantly with the Lord (like we all should be) can look to the Lord to be "preserved' safely through childbirth.

The word used here has nothing to do with a womens salvation.
Zip zero nada nein nothing zilch.

John Piper has a good explanation of this verse on his website. It's worth reading.

How Are Women Saved Through Childbearing?

You are taking it out of context ....If you want, I can post the context ....it's a bit long

Childbirth down through history has been in many ways a risky endevour. Even today with the medical advances it is not always simple and easy. All the passage means is that women who are walking in obedience to their Lord can look to him through prayer and faith to get them safely through it.

Thank you all for your replies, though I'm still not sure. I intend on asking my church about this as well, if I get over the embarrassment . Also sandman yes, I'd like if you gave me some context. Thank you in advance!

 

[Dustoff]

If you want to see more info on it post the question over on the general theology tab. There is a lot more traffic there and this is a question tailor made for there.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

Hey, sorry I'm not sure where I should post this.

So, if the meaning is literal, and it means all women have to marry and have children, doesn't that contradict Corinthians A' 7:34, and when Jesus said that if possible, it's better not to marry (or was he only talking about men, cause the example he gave was exclusively a male thing)? Also the Apostle Paul (I think) said that it is better to remain single like him (or could he also be referring to men?).

In the context of the bible it is saying that women should seek to raise children, not to actively seek out leadership roles in the church. It is not saying women are saved by bearing children, but rather the path that God has chosen for women in the church is to focus on their families. Salvation is by faith in Jesus death and resurrection on the cross, not by the act of bearing children.

 

[nana_5848]

If you want to see more info on it post the question over on the general theology tab. There is a lot more traffic there and this is a question tailor made for there.

I did, thank you.

 

[sandman]

. Also sandman yes, I'd like if you gave me some context. Thank you in advance!

This goes through (breaks down) 1Timothy 2:10-15.
The childbirth should be understood in light of this context.

I did this because of the notion that some people have held regarding women teaching the Word. I have seen much discussion on this subject over the years from short sighted people who do not relish the idea of women pastors….and...if that was Gods intent…. I would certainly preserve and teach that…… But context is king concerning this subject in the Bible ….actually it is king all the time, but regarding women teaching….. it is critical to understand context and culture. We need to keep both Timothy and Corinthians within the context of which they were written.


I Timothy is a pastoral epistle written to the leadership in the church (note: when I use the word church I am speaking of the ekklesia the called of God, the body of Christ, not a structure (it’s all born again believers.)

Therefore, when reading this epistle, we must keep in mind who it is addressing, and why. We cannot take a few verses out of their context and make them a general application to all women within the body of Christ….. that is just poor workmanship of rightly dividing the Word.
And it is critical that we keep in mind cultural times. Here in Timothy, as well as 1Co 14:34 we are dealing with the wives of the prophets …and there were cultural standards that came into play.

Timothy is dealing with the leadership in the church, and specifically these verses in question are dealing with wives of the men of God in the leadership positions responsible for teaching and moving Gods Word….. We must read and understand these verses in that light, and not wrench them out of context to degrade women as some groups have done.
The whole context dictates that the men (husbands) were men of God with ministries as noted in 1Tim 3:1 …which is the more immediate context of these verses…..

The shadow setting for this and I Corinthians 14 comes down to respect, honor, and reverence of the Word of God → which is what the man of God represents ….”that”→ and not the question of whether women can teach or not teach should be the focal point of what is in these verses.


The following is a break-down of verses 9-15 I Timothy 2

I will highlight words from each verse… along with the Greek word which will be in italic.

1Ti 2:9 In like manner [also], that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

In like manner or “likewise”. You have to go back to verse 8 to find out what it’s referring to. Talking about husbands who were men of God praying everyplace “lifting up holy hands” is a Figure of speech meaning “To have done all that can be done” ….speaking of the men of God praying in the previous verses. ….It now shifts to the women in doing all they can do.

The word also is not in any critical Greek text.

that women = gunê = wives … henceforth, the word woman is translated wives.

adorn themselves = kosmeo it is the word transliterated over into our English as cosmos” It means “orderly universe”. To polish, or to beautifully cut out to carve in all perfection. Orderly like the stars that are set in their course, and like the paths of the seas, no collision. It’s like all of God’s creation; that’s this word “adorn.”


in modest apparel = kosmias the same root word as adorn.
Women are to adorn themselves adorningly …meaning well polished beautifully groomed, is the essence of what God is saying. It sets the woman with the man of God in all of its beauty and all of its greatness.


With shamefacedness = aidôs = an inner grace. Manifesting the inner beauty of God in Christ in you, in your walk, your talk, and your manner of dress. One who recoils at anything unseemly, immoral or impure.

Sobriety = sôphrosunê is self-restraint, habitual inner self-governing it’s the renewed mind dignified walk. Being an example in your walk….. because that man of God is your man, and you by your actions show the rest of the women in the household of God how they are to act or walk.

not – is conditional …….due to culture… the walk of a woman would vary.

broided hair = plegma hair-doo or gold, or pearls, or costly array.
One example of this refers women who would have their hair put in the form of the temple, a horn or a tube that would go around the head made of gold studded with precious jewels. This would tie underneath the chin and over the top of the hair. At the back they would have braided cords of silk that would drop to the back of the knees, and at the bottom of those would be tassels of red silk, loaded with lead so the hair style would be tightened under the chin………. [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]….ouch!

1Ti 2:10 But which becometh women professing godliness with good works.


But – Sets in contrast that which was preceding (broided hair, etc)

which becoumeth women – wives of the men of God

professing = epaggellomai = To announce one self


godliness = Wives showing themselves reverently godly, that is how you announce yourself. Wives are attractively dressed, sharp, cultured, but not to the end that you’re drawing attention to yourself through your costly array.

with good works – This Greek preposition indicates “with” as all the way through, not just the manner of dress, but the actions in your life. Doing what has just been stated, that’s “the good works.”

1Ti 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.


Let the woman = wife of the man of God.

learn = to be informed, to understand to learn by study and observation.

in silence hesuchia …means – inner awareness, a quietness, tranquility. It’s just the opposite of vociferous.
There is a time for a person to keep quiet and a time to speak. The context here is talking about “wives of the men of God”. With that inner awareness you will know when that time and palace is.

with all subjection = submission by loving obedience.
When the woman decided to marry the man, she made a decision that the man would be the head of her of the household…. like God would be the head of the man. The wife has to become aware of the inner awareness of her man, just as the man is with God.


1Ti 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

but is the word “and”

I suffer = epitrepo means to direct, or instruct

not a woman = wives

to teach = didaske to debate. We get our word teacher from this Greek word. It’s used in the academic realm of a didactic course (a teaching coarse) but here is the beauty of this scripture. In our teaching methods there is no debate…. but in the old Hebrew or the synagogue operation, anytime a teacher teaches, anybody who wants to get up and question him can do so. (God says - I instruct the wife not to debate in public with her man of God.) You can obviously see where this would belittle the man, showing great disrespect to the man of God, and the Word of God

nor = and not

to usurp authority over = to exercise power over, domineer.

the man = husband

but to be in silence – same word as in verse 11. the inner awareness.


1Ti 2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

For Adam was first formed then Eve – Adam was given authority and Eve was given to Adam as a companion. This doesn’t degrade the woman, but rather just puts it in the order, which God formed, made, and created us.

1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

And Adam was not deceived
But the woman (wife) being deceived = taken in, literally means baited by false statements which the adversary laid on her in Genesis….. God’s just saying… things haven’t changed, the adversary is still trying to pull the same stunts. That is why that word hesuchia (that inner awareness) is so vitally important in a woman’s walk, so that the woman is not trying to usurp authority over the man.


was in the transgression – stepping aside from doing right. Even though Adam wasn’t deceived, it was because she was his companion, and when she was baited, he went down to her level. This will generally always be true with a man.



1Ti 2:15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.


Notwithstanding = but

She shall be saved = sozo made whole, made complete,

in = through

childbearing On the surface it looks like childbearing is a curse, but actually she (the wife) shall be made complete, whole, through childbearing…..
(Guys will not understand that…. but women will)

If they - The husband and wife.

Continue in en = governs only the dative case and denotes being or remaining within, with the primary idea of rest and continuance.

Faith = pistis (noun) the divinely implanted principle. It is one of the fruits of the spirit. This particular form is not the action of believing, but the firm persuasion or conviction of what we hear from God’s Word.

And charity = agapê We all know this as being the love of God…. but this love goes so much further than that which was known in the OT. It’s a spontaneous love irrespective of rights. Its love in its fullest conceivable form, and beyond.

And holiness - as becoming to the husband and wife as devoted to God.
___________________________________________________________________________
Both the roll of the Man and the Woman should be kept in the perspective of the Word. (marriage relationship, and leadership relationship)
As for Women teaching in the Church, there is nothing in the Word that disallows that….as long as it’s kept within the perspective and boundaries of written Word.

___________________________________________________________________________

I Corinthians 14


1Co 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.

35. And if they will learn anything, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.


Again this is dealing with wives in the eastern culture, and the setting that took place.

The setting is where men would sit on one side and women on the other of the room after the teaching. The men would discuss/debate what was taught. Remember that word didaske… to debate
Interruptions were obviously taking place during that time from the wives to necessitate God having this written. (Now remember…. this is not a large church structure; keep in mind the times. The churches were the group settings (i.e.) home fellowships as dictated in the book of Acts)

All that God was saying was hold your opinion/discussion until you get home.

Also …the book(s) of Corinthians are correctional Epistles to show believers where they were off track, from not following the doctrine laid out in Romans, Ephesians, and Thessalonians.


Neither of these accounts In Timbo and Corinthians applies to all women, but as you can see it did apply to these specific settings and does apply to similar settings for obvious reasons.
Can woman teach the Word …absolutely! Can married woman teach the Word….. absolutely …within the confines of the written Word…. which is “proper arrangement” between a husband and wife.


In essence, the written Word does not censor the ability for woman to preach or teach. I know many…. and have known some absolutely wonderful, committed women of God with gift ministries. When these women were married, their priorities changed through their own decision…. which is biblically accurate.




The word used in Eph 5:22 is called submission, which is: loving obedience, by proper arrangement, and deliberate decision. This simply means when the woman decides by her free will to marry, the proper arrangement is that the husband becomes head of the household…. (not a dictator) it means he lovingly guides and directs in a godly manner according to the Word….. This account in Ephesians is another teaching in itself. But it has been frequently mishandled by some idiotic jerks ….men who desire to control their spouse. If they only continued to read on and realize their responsibility…but I don’t imagine they can actually read.


The only time usurping authority comes into play …is when the Word deals with wives of the men of God………. in specific situations.


Should a woman elect not to get married there is no restrictions on her priorities for serving the Lord, teaching and preaching Word.. I think it is abundantly clear when we look at scripture that God has no problem with women preaching the Word.


Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

 

[mama2one]

I didn't give birth since we adopted our child

every time I suspected pregnancy & the test was negative, I was happy cause didn't want to go through pain of childbirth
thankful I missed all that & grateful my kid doesn't have my family genes

 

[sandman]

I didn't give birth since we adopted our child

every time I suspected pregnancy & the test was negative, I was happy cause didn't want to go through pain of childbirth
thankful I missed all that & grateful my kid doesn't have my family genes

I am a little freaked out about this also... since recently learning that guys can get pregnant