WHAT DOES IT MEAN , ARE THE 12 IN, OR OUT OF THE

[Pepper77]

Glad you agree that you could be a Jew and a member of the body of Christ as well.

 

[Dan Perez]

Glad you agree that you could be a Jew and a member of the body of Christ as well.

Hi and any one saved by GRACE is saved and in the B O C !!

dan p

 

[Pepper77]

The 12 were saved by faith, just as we are. They are in Christ, which is the same as being in the body of Christ.

 

[Dan Perez]

The 12 were saved by faith, just as we are. They are in Christ, which is the same as being in the body of Christ.

Hi Pepper 77 and will pleased to see how they were saved by faith or explain how Peter was saved ??

We see in Acts 20:21 , all were still keeping the Law !!

dan p

 

[Pepper77]

Hi Pepper 77 and will pleased to see how they were saved by faith or explain how Peter was saved ??

We see in Acts 20:21 , all were still keeping the Law !!

dan p

Hi Dan, Peter Was saved by grace through faith in the work of Christ as well as the other Jewish believers. Paul says in Acts 13: 38-39 That everyone who believes in Jesus is justified from all things from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses. In Galatians 2:15-16 he says to Peter “ We who are Jews by nature know that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Christ even we have believed in Christ Jesus that we might be justified by faith. In first Peter 1:5 Peter says the elect are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation. The law was a tutor to bring people to Christ according to Galatians 3:24, that they might be justified by faith. But after faith has come they are no longer under a tutor (The law). The Jewish believers were still zealous for the law but that doesn’t mean the law was saving them. Paul even kept some of the feasts maybe all of them, He even took Jewish vows after he was saved and understood he was saved by grace through faith. It was a transitional period. The law was what they had lived under for years. It ruled them judicially. But faith in God is what has always saved. Look at Abraham. Abraham believed God and it was counted to him for righteousness. His works showed the faith he had. Hebrew says The blood of bulls and goats could never take away Sin, only cover it until the perfect sacrifice of Christ came. Christ takes away our sins and makes us new creations. 1 Peter 1:23 says we are born again of incorruptible seed. Peter said this. Did this not include him? Of course it did! Incorruptible means it could not be corrupted, it was not up to him and his works of the law. It was by grace through faith.

 

[Dan Perez]

Hi Dan, Peter Was saved by grace through faith in the work of Christ as well as the other Jewish believers. Paul says in Acts 13: 38-39 That everyone who believes in Jesus is justified from all things from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses. In Galatians 2:15-16 he says to Peter “ We who are Jews by nature know that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Christ even we have believed in Christ Jesus that we might be justified by faith. In first Peter 1:5 Peter says the elect are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation. The law was a tutor to bring people to Christ according to Galatians 3:24, that they might be justified by faith. But after faith has come they are no longer under a tutor (The law). The Jewish believers were still zealous for the law but that doesn’t mean the law was saving them. Paul even kept some of the feasts maybe all of them, He even took Jewish vows after he was saved and understood he was saved by grace through faith. It was a transitional period. The law was what they had lived under for years. It ruled them judicially. But faith in God is what has always saved. Look at Abraham. Abraham believed God and it was counted to him for righteousness. His works showed the faith he had. Hebrew says The blood of bulls and goats could never take away Sin, only cover it until the perfect sacrifice of Christ came. Christ takes away our sins and makes us new creations. 1 Peter 1:23 says we are born again of incorruptible seed. Peter said this. Did this not include him? Of course it did! Incorruptible means it could not be corrupted, it was not up to him and his works of the law. It was by grace through faith.

Hi and I will quote Eph 2:8 which am sure that you know >

Paul , here is speaking to the BODY OF CHRIST and no question that he is speaking to Gentiles !!
And in Gal 2:11-14 we see Peter is still teaching the Jewish Laws and RITES and trying to lead grace believers to keep the LAW and Paul calls this HYPOCRISY !!

Read Luke 22:32 and see how Peter was saved and your reply ??

dan p

 

[Pepper77]

Hi Dan, Peter Was saved by grace through faith in the work of Christ as well as the other Jewish believers. Paul says in Acts 13: 38-39 That everyone who believes in Jesus is justified from all things from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses. In Galatians 2:15-16 he says to Peter “ We who are Jews by nature know that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Christ even we have believed in Christ Jesus that we might be justified by faith. In first Peter 1:5 Peter says the elect are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation. The law was a tutor to bring people to Christ according to Galatians 3:24, that they might be justified by faith. But after faith has come they are no longer under a tutor (The law). The Jewish believers were still zealous for the law but that doesn’t mean the law was saving them. Paul even kept some of the feasts maybe all of them, He even took Jewish vows after he was saved and understood he was saved by grace through faith. It was a transitional period. The law was what they had lived under for years. It ruled them judicially. But faith in God is what has always saved. Look at Abraham. Abraham believed God and it was counted to him for righteousness. His works showed the faith he had. Hebrew says The blood of bulls and goats could never take away Sin, only cover it until the perfect sacrifice of Christ came. Christ takes away our sins and makes us new creations. 1 Peter 1:23 says we are born again of incorruptible seed. Peter said this. Did this not include him? Of course it did! Incorruptible means it could not be corrupted, it was not up to him and his works of the law. It was by grace through faith.

Hi and I will quote Eph 2:8 which am sure that you know >

Paul , here is speaking to the BODY OF CHRIST and no question that he is speaking to Gentiles !!
And in Gal 2:11-14 we see Peter is still teaching the Jewish Laws and RITES and trying to lead grace believers to keep the LAW and Paul calls this HYPOCRISY !!

Read Luke 22:32 and see how Peter was saved and your reply ??

dan p

In Gal 2:14 he says Peter was not being straightforward about the truth of the gospel. Which gospel? Paul makes no distinction between Peter’s gospel and Paul’s gospel. Then he says Peter is living like a gentile so why would he compel the Gentiles to live under the law like the Jews? That whole section in Galatians 2 as well as Acts 15 shows that Peter was teaching a gospel by faith as well, not works of the law.
As far as Eph 2:8.... Eph 1:1 says Paul is writing to the faithful in Christ Jesus as well as those in Ephesus who are also the faithful in Christ Jesus of course. I think Peter was faithful in Christ Jesus.
In Luke 22:32 Jesus was praying for Peter’s faith that it will remain strong.
I really think there’s a problem in saying that Peter and the Jerusalem believers were not saved by faith only but I also need needed works of the law to save them. They were in Christ just as we are. It says that many times. If you are in Christ you are there because of faith and you cannot lose that or fall away because you’re not doing works of the law.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

If you are in Christ you are there because of faith and you cannot lose that or fall away because you’re not doing works of the law.

Like Adam and Chavah (Eve),
people today can fall away by sin, transgressions, breaking the TORAH,
not by doing the works of the law ,
but by willfully breaking the law,
doing evil in God's Sight,
as He Says.

 

[Pepper77]

Like Adam and Chavah (Eve),
people today can fall away by sin, transgressions, breaking the TORAH,
not by doing the works of the law ,
but by willfully breaking the law,
doing evil in God's Sight,
as He Says.

The new covenant scriptures disagree with you. We have been freed from the law, saved by grace through faith, not of works lest we boast. Eph 2:8. We have been sealed by the Holy Spirit who is the guarantee if our inheritance Eph 1:13-14.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

The new covenant scriptures disagree with you. We have been freed from the law, saved by grace through faith, not of works lest we boast. Eph 2:8. We have been sealed by the Holy Spirit who is the guarantee if our inheritance Eph 1:13-14.

Sorry, no.
If anyone is saved, it is from the consequences of sin, death.

 

[Pepper77]

Sorry, no.
If anyone is saved, it is from the consequences of sin, death.

That’s true.

 

[Pepper77]

We are also risen with Christ to a new life with our spirit joined to His as one spirit.
1 Cor 6:17. Romans 7 4-5 says we have become dead to the law Through the body of Christ that we might be married to Christ who was raised from the dead that we would bear fruit to God. 1 Tim 1:9 says the law is not made for a righteous man but for the lawless and insubordinate for the godless and sinners etc. If you have believed and received Christ as your Lord and Savior you are a righteous person no longer a sinner but a saint. We now live by the Spirit of life that is in Christ Jesus that is in us and us in him. Rom 8:1 for the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made us free from the law of sin and death. Rom 6:6-7 Knowing this, that are old man was crucified with him that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. For he who has died has been freed from sin. Beautiful truths about this life in Christ. We are a new righteous self, joined to Christ, perfect in Him at the core. We have in Spirit in us as our counselor and guide and He works in us to will and do for his good pleasure. Phil 2-13. We have the first fruits of eternal life right now being joined to Him.

 

[Dan Perez]

In Gal 2:14 he says Peter was not being straightforward about the truth of the gospel. Which gospel? Paul makes no distinction between Peter’s gospel and Paul’s gospel. Then he says Peter is living like a gentile so why would he compel the Gentiles to live under the law like the Jews? That whole section in Galatians 2 as well as Acts 15 shows that Peter was teaching a gospel by faith as well, not works of the law.
As far as Eph 2:8.... Eph 1:1 says Paul is writing to the faithful in Christ Jesus as well as those in Ephesus who are also the faithful in Christ Jesus of course. I think Peter was faithful in Christ Jesus.
In Luke 22:32 Jesus was praying for Peter’s faith that it will remain strong.
I really think there’s a problem in saying that Peter and the Jerusalem believers were not saved by faith only but I also need needed works of the law to save them. They were in Christ just as we are. It says that many times. If you are in Christ you are there because of faith and you cannot lose that or fall away because you’re not doing works of the law.

Hi and Gal 2:7 does make a DIFFERENCE between Peter and Paul !!

It is called the GOSPEL OF THE UN-CIRCUMCISION to the Gentiles !!

Fot Peter it is called THE CIRCUMCISION to the Jews !!

dan p

 

[Pepper77]

Hi and Gal 2:7 does make a DIFFERENCE between Peter and Paul !!

It is called the GOSPEL OF THE UN-CIRCUMCISION to the Gentiles !!

Fot Peter it is called THE CIRCUMCISION to the Jews !!

 

[Pepper77]

Explain what Paul said in Gal 2: 14-16 please.

 

[Dan Perez]

Explain what Paul said in Gal 2: 14-16 please.[/QUOTE

Hi and I will do that explanation , next week !!

dan p

 

[ac28]

The 12 were part of the all Israel Church of God, 1Cor 11:16,22, the only church during Acts. The "body" during Acts was a "figure" of a body of Jewish and grafted in Gentile believers associated with the distribution of the gifts in 1Cor 12. It was called the "body of Christ", but it was never called a church.

When Israel was set aside in Ac 28:28, everything Israel was also set aside, including the Church of God. EVERYTHING from Acts is GONE, temporarily

The Church which is the Body of Christ, where Christ is the Head, Col 1:18, 24, is the new church which was formed by Paul after Acts and is the all-Gentile Church that exists today. The only place in the Bible this Church can be found is in Paul's 7 books written after Acts..

It is impossible that the "body of Christ", 1Cor 12:27, during Acts is the same as the Church which is His Body in Col 1:18. The "head" in 1Cor 12 is made up of members - eye and ear in 1Cor 12:16-21. In Colossians, Christ is the Head if the Body. Not the figurative head, but the actual Head of His actual Body, which is us, Eph 5:30.

The Church called "The Body of Christ" is found ONLY in Paul's 7 post-Acts epistles. It is the only church in existence today. It is a Gentile church whose Hope is in Heavenly Places, Eph 2:6, the Heaven of Heavens, Far above the starry Heavens, where Christ sits at the right hand of God, Eph 1:20. The Hope of the 12 is the New Jerusalem, which IS NOT Heaven. Therefore, it is not possible the 12 are in the Church which is the Body of Christ.

 

[Dan Perez]

Hi and here is my explanation of Gal 2:14 !!

This is from the KJV , But when I saw that they are NOT walking in a straight course according to the truth of thr gospel , I said to PETER in front of all , Since you . being a Jew , live like a Gentiles and not after the manner of the Jews , why do you compel the Gentiles to adopt Jewish CUSTOMS and RITES !!

#1 Paul says that Peter was not walking UPRIGHTLY / ORTHOPODEO iks in the Greek PRESENT TENSE and the present tense that Peter's walk was CONTINUOUSLY walking crooked !!

#2 , Peter was only there to COMPEL the Gentiles to abandon Grace and go back and ADOPT Jewish custom and Jewish rites !!

#3 When a person saved by Grace falls back to keeping the Law it is called FALLING FROM GRACE , in Gal 5:4 !!

#4 What it also means that Peter was not saved by Grace NOR was Peter saved by Grace , see Acts 15:11 !

dan p

 

[Pepper77]

Hi and here is my explanation of Gal 2:14 !!

This is from the KJV , But when I saw that they are NOT walking in a straight course according to the truth of thr gospel , I said to PETER in front of all , Since you . being a Jew , live like a Gentiles and not after the manner of the Jews , why do you compel the Gentiles to adopt Jewish CUSTOMS and RITES !!

#1 Paul says that Peter was not walking UPRIGHTLY / ORTHOPODEO iks in the Greek PRESENT TENSE and the present tense that Peter's walk was CONTINUOUSLY walking crooked !!

#2 , Peter was only there to COMPEL the Gentiles to abandon Grace and go back and ADOPT Jewish custom and Jewish rites !!

#3 When a person saved by Grace falls back to keeping the Law it is called FALLING FROM GRACE , in Gal 5:4 !!

#4 What it also means that Peter was not saved by Grace NOR was Peter saved by Grace , see Acts 15:11 !

dan p

Dan, you could at least quote accurately the KJV of Gal 2:14. It is "But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?"

And your interpretation makes no sense at all. Paul was plainly saying that Peter was living freely like the Gentiles, not under the Mosaic law. Since he was living freely himself, and he was a Jew, why would he even try and compell the Gentiles to live under the Mosaic law that he understood he was free from and was living accordingly. He quit living freely when certain men of the circumcision came down (who were not acknowledging their freedom from the law and wanting to keep it going and compel the Gentiles to do so) Gal 2:12. I have heard interpretations from this group on this passage as convoluted as yours. The problem is it is a troublesome passage for your theology.
Acts 15:11 in the interlinear reads: But by the grace of God we believe to be saved in the same manner as they (the Gentiles). The KJV reads " But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, as they." How can you possibly get from that that Peter was saying he was not saved by grace??? That is exactly what he is saying.
I am going currently going to a hyper-dispensational church, but am about done going there because of these errors about the early Acts church not being saved by grace through the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross. To believe they were still in Adam and not in Christ nowhere is said. In fact the total opposite is proclaimes. In 1Cor 15 Paul says whether He or Peter or James or the 12 preached the gospel they believed. 1Cor 15:3-11. You all are really butchering the word of God. You need to be careful.

 

[Pepper77]

The 12 were part of the all Israel Church of God, 1Cor 11:16,22, the only church during Acts. The "body" during Acts was a "figure" of a body of Jewish and grafted in Gentile believers associated with the distribution of the gifts in 1Cor 12. It was called the "body of Christ", but it was never called a church.

When Israel was set aside in Ac 28:28, everything Israel was also set aside, including the Church of God. EVERYTHING from Acts is GONE, temporarily

The Church which is the Body of Christ, where Christ is the Head, Col 1:18, 24, is the new church which was formed by Paul after Acts and is the all-Gentile Church that exists today. The only place in the Bible this Church can be found is in Paul's 7 books written after Acts..

It is impossible that the "body of Christ", 1Cor 12:27, during Acts is the same as the Church which is His Body in Col 1:18. The "head" in 1Cor 12 is made up of members - eye and ear in 1Cor 12:16-21. In Colossians, Christ is the Head if the Body. Not the figurative head, but the actual Head of His actual Body, which is us, Eph 5:30.

The Church called "The Body of Christ" is found ONLY in Paul's 7 post-Acts epistles. It is the only church in existence today. It is a Gentile church whose Hope is in Heavenly Places, Eph 2:6, the Heaven of Heavens, Far above the starry Heavens, where Christ sits at the right hand of God, Eph 1:20. The Hope of the 12 is the New Jerusalem, which IS NOT Heaven. Therefore, it is not possible the 12 are in the Church which is the Body of Christ.