So the spiritual wisdom and insight of the saints of the historic true Church through the ages, whose faith and sacrifice, frequently to the death, enabled you to enjoy the spiritual freedoms you do today; is worth nothing?
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What does "except there come a falling away first" in 2 Thess. 2:3 mean?
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seventysevens
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Funny try
no details of who did what and how they did it , they did not write the Holy scriptures and only those who were willing to do what is necessary to get the scriptures to safety through those that wanted to destroy it so future generations could have access to it enabled to obtain spiritual freedom through reading the scriptures , a lot of blood was spilled needlessly as egos pushing their own views on people resulted in many needless deaths
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You are correct. There were many of them, and many paid in blood. Read Foxe's Book of Martyrs to find out about some of those to whom you owe your spiritual freedom today.
Then kneel and thank God for their sacrifice.
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seventysevens
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Many of that time shed innocent blood thinking they are doing Gods work , but God said though shalt not commit murder
In today's world there are many murders of innocent blood shed by people who think that they are doing Gods work , but are really doing what God said not to do
My spiritual freedom comes directly from Lord God Himself for he shed His own innocent blood so that I may live eternally with Him!
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There is no rapture.
The parable of the wheat and the tars states everything.
Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn
The parable of the wheat and the tars states everything.
Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn
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You are close.
The Church is raptured on Pentecost the summer harvest feast.........at the trump of God. The twelve tribes are harvested (after the 144000 have witnessed to them) on the Feast of Trumpets at the last trump.
Israel is the remnant.
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The Times
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Romans 9:25
25 As indeed he says in Hosea, “Those who were not my people I will call ‘my people,’ and her who was not beloved I will call ‘beloved.’”
God's beloved is his bride, Christ's Church, she is the pregnant woman of Revelation, who carried the Gospel of the Son into the world, through her many seeds, who had the testimony of Jesus. Although the Kingship came through Judah, yet the promises went to Israel (ten lost tribes), through THE Seed of Promise Jesus Christ.
Those who were not my people and not my beloved Israel, were called my people and my Israel. God has only one people and they are the seeds of the 1st Century Apostolic Church, the pregnant expecting woman who delivered the Gospel of Jesus into the world, in making disciples of the Gentile world.
The Promises of the Old Testament belong to the Church, who is the body of Christ and anyone or any nation, who curses the Church is accursed and anyone or any nation who blesses the Church is blessed.
If for example the nation calling itself Israel in the Middle East curses Christianity, then they would be cursed by God.
25 As indeed he says in Hosea, “Those who were not my people I will call ‘my people,’ and her who was not beloved I will call ‘beloved.’”
God's beloved is his bride, Christ's Church, she is the pregnant woman of Revelation, who carried the Gospel of the Son into the world, through her many seeds, who had the testimony of Jesus. Although the Kingship came through Judah, yet the promises went to Israel (ten lost tribes), through THE Seed of Promise Jesus Christ.
Those who were not my people and not my beloved Israel, were called my people and my Israel. God has only one people and they are the seeds of the 1st Century Apostolic Church, the pregnant expecting woman who delivered the Gospel of Jesus into the world, in making disciples of the Gentile world.
The Promises of the Old Testament belong to the Church, who is the body of Christ and anyone or any nation, who curses the Church is accursed and anyone or any nation who blesses the Church is blessed.
If for example the nation calling itself Israel in the Middle East curses Christianity, then they would be cursed by God.
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The OP along with posts #6 and #9 refute your statement, "There is no rapture."
Jesus mission in His first advent was exclusively to Israel, He made very clear, in Mt.15:24 and in Mt.10:5-6. The Church did not exist then, because the Holy Spirit had not yet arrived, according to Jn.7:39, until at Pentecost, ten days after Jesus ascended into heaven, according to Acts 1:9 and 2:1-3.
Quasar92
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Mat 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Paul considered himself an Israelite after his conversion in Romans 11:1.
James addressed his letter to the 12 tribes.
In Acts 2:36 Peter addressed the crowd as "all the house of Israel".
The New Covenant was promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and is specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:22-24, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8.
Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant of Christ your Two Peoples of God doctrine falls apart.
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The Church and Israel are two very separate entities. The Church consists of believers in Jesus Christ, as their personal Lord and Savior. Both Jews and Gentiles alike, as recorded in 1 Cor.12:12-13. Paul who wrote the passage is an Israelite, as well as a member of the Church, to say nothing of the fact that he was also an Apostle of Jesus.
There is no part of Israel that is the Church. Nor is any part of the Church, Israel.
Israel is a nation pf non-believers, who have not received Jesus as their Messiah. Nor have they accepted the New Covenant. As such, God has decreed them to go through the tribulation, as recorded in Jer.30:7 and Dan.9:27.
When Jesus returns to earth from His marriage to the Bride/Church, in heaven, in His second coming, He will do so WITH His Church, as recorded in Rev.19:7-8 and 14. Whom He CAUGHT UP/RAPTURED seven years previously, as recorded in Jn.14:2-3, 28; 1 Thess.4:16-17 and 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8.
It is at that time, Israel will finally recognize Jesus as their Messiah, and the terms of the New Covenant, as recorded in Zecj.12:10 and Zech. 14:4-5.
The two entities of Israel and the Church will finally become ONE ENTITY, when Jesus establishes His 1,000 year kingdom on earth, fulfilling Mt.6:9-13 and Jn.10:16.
One more time: What is the difference between Israel and the Church?
Israel = non-believers who will go through the tribulation, as recorded in Jer.30:7; Dan.9:27; Zech.12:10 and 14:4-5..
Church = believers who will be caught up to the Lord in heaven, before the tribulation begins, as recorded in Jn.14:2-3, 28; 1 Thes.4:16-17 and 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8.
Quasar92
There is no part of Israel that is the Church. Nor is any part of the Church, Israel.
Israel is a nation pf non-believers, who have not received Jesus as their Messiah. Nor have they accepted the New Covenant. As such, God has decreed them to go through the tribulation, as recorded in Jer.30:7 and Dan.9:27.
When Jesus returns to earth from His marriage to the Bride/Church, in heaven, in His second coming, He will do so WITH His Church, as recorded in Rev.19:7-8 and 14. Whom He CAUGHT UP/RAPTURED seven years previously, as recorded in Jn.14:2-3, 28; 1 Thess.4:16-17 and 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8.
It is at that time, Israel will finally recognize Jesus as their Messiah, and the terms of the New Covenant, as recorded in Zecj.12:10 and Zech. 14:4-5.
The two entities of Israel and the Church will finally become ONE ENTITY, when Jesus establishes His 1,000 year kingdom on earth, fulfilling Mt.6:9-13 and Jn.10:16.
One more time: What is the difference between Israel and the Church?
Israel = non-believers who will go through the tribulation, as recorded in Jer.30:7; Dan.9:27; Zech.12:10 and 14:4-5..
Church = believers who will be caught up to the Lord in heaven, before the tribulation begins, as recorded in Jn.14:2-3, 28; 1 Thes.4:16-17 and 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8.
Quasar92
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Jer_31:31 "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—
Mat_26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Mar_14:24 And He said to them, "This is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many.
Luk_22:20 Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.
1Co_11:25 In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me."
2Co_3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
Heb_8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—
Heb_8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
Heb_9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.
Heb 12:22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb_12:24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.
NKJV
The New Covenant: Bob George
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The Church IS NOT Israel. The Israel of God in Gal.6:16 is reference by Paul, to the Jews of Israel who believe in Jesus Christ as their Messiah, as recorded in 1 Cor.12:12-13. The following facts describe the errors of your above belief system. The New Covenant prophecy in Jer.31:31-34, wa fulfilled by Jesus, as recorded in Lk.22:20, the Gentiles accepted, as well as the very few Jews of Israel. Meanwhile, the nation of Israel has NEVER accepted the New Covenant through the acceptance of Jesus Christ as their Messiah, to this day. According to the prophetic Scriptures, in Zech.12:10 and 14:4-5, Israel will go through the tribulation and finally recognize Jesus as their Messiah, at His second coming, together with the New Covenant. Review the following for your edification:
What is Covenant Theology and is it Biblical?
Covenant theology is based on the theory that God has only one covenant with men (the covenant of grace) and only one people, represented by the Old and New Testament saints—one people, one church and one plan for all. These beliefs require the adherents of covenant theology to interpret prophecy in a nonliteral way. Dispensationalism, on the other hand, is a system of theology with two primary distinctives: (1) a consistently literal interpretation of Scripture, especially Bible prophecy, and (2) a distinction between Israel and the Church in God's program.
Those who hold to covenant theology believe that there is, and has always been, only one people of God. They believe that Israel was the Church in the Old Testament, and the Church is Israel in the New Testament. The promises of land, many descendants, and blessing to Israel in the Old Testament have been “spiritualized” and applied to the Church in the New Testament because of Israel’s unbelief and rejection of their Messiah. Those who hold to covenant theology also do not interpret prophecy in a normal sense. As an example, in Revelation 20, the thousand-year reign of Christ is spoken of. Covenant theology would say that the number 1,000 is symbolic and really does not mean a literal 1,000 years. They would say that we are in the millennium right now, that the reign of Christ with His saints is going on in heaven right now, and that the 1,000-year period is symbolic, beginning with the first coming of Christ and ending when He returns.
Scripturally, covenant theology is wrong in both how Israel is viewed and how prophecy is interpreted. The proper method for interpreting Scripture is to read it in a normal sense. Unless the text indicates that it is using some kind of figurative language, it should be taken literally. When Scripture speaks of Israel, it is not referring to the Church, and when the Church is spoken of, it is not referring to Israel. God has one plan for Israel and another for the Church. Also, with reference to prophecy, all prophecies that have been fulfilled were fulfilled literally, not figuratively. Christ literally fulfilled the Old Testament prophecies about the Messiah when He came 2,000 years ago. There is no reason to think that unfulfilled prophecies are to be understood in a figurative sense. As with those in the past, future prophecy will be fulfilled literally in the future.
In Romans 11:1, Paul poses the question of Israel’s future and answers it definitively: “I ask then: ‘Did God reject his people?’ By no means!” The rest of the chapter makes it clear that Israel has been “hardened” or temporarily set aside “in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in” (Romans 11:25). Israel did not become the Church; rather, the Church was “grafted in” (v. 17) to the root of God’s family, creating one body out of the two, while they remain separate in origin, although united in the faith. If the Church was to replace Israel, the imagery would be as a tree (Israel) uprooted and replaced by another (the Church). But the imagery of a branch grafted into a tree is perfectly clear. This is the “mystery” Paul speaks of in verse 25. A mystery in the New Testament refers to something previously not revealed, and the idea of another group of people becoming part of the chosen people of God was unheard of to the Jews at that time.
Will God cast away His people Israel? No, God will not cast away His people. On the contrary, verse 25 and following says, "God will save his people." At some future point, “the deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.” Here is God’s promise to His chosen people for their future restoration. What a glorious plan! No wonder the contemplation of it caused Paul to burst forth with “Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgments, and his paths beyond tracing out!” God is faithful, He is merciful and His plans are perfect, and one day both Jew and Gentile will worship the Lord Jesus Christ as one body.
Quasar92
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Apparently you do not understand the difference between Reformed Covenant Theology and New Covenant Theology.
They are not the same thing.
Your article is about Reformed Covenant Theology, which like Dispensational Theology falls apart in Galatians chapter 3.
What is New Covenant Theology?
Pastor Douglas Goodin
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The teachings documented in the Bible clearly refute the teachings of Covenant; New Covenant and Reformed Covenant theology; for attempting to make Israel and the Church one entity. Which they are distinctively not. What you fail to comprehend, is the Scriptual facts that your belief system will not take place until AFTER Jesus second coming and the establishment of His Millennial kingdom here on earth, as I previously posted. Review the following for your edification:
The fourth biblical foundation upon which the pre-trib rapture is built is the fact that God has two peoples-Israel and the church. What do we mean by this distinction and how does it impact pretribulationism?
The Distinction Between Israel and the Church
"The New Testament consistently differentiates between Israel and the church," claims Arnold Fruchtenbaum.1 Fruchtenbaum supports this conclusion through a powerful twofold argument in which he first demonstrates the biblical view of Israel and secondly, by showing that the church is viewed in the New Testament as a separate entity.
Belief that God's single plan for history includes the two peoples of Israel and the church does not imply that there are thus different ways of salvation. When it comes to the issue of salvation there is only one way, since all peoples down through history descend from a single source-Adam. Christ's saving work is the only way of salvation for anyone, whether they are a member of Israel or the church.
Israel
Fruchtenbaum notes that "the term Israel is viewed theologically as referring to all descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, also known as Jews, the Jewish people, Israelites, Hebrews, etc." (113). He notes that national election distinguishes Israel from those peoples who were not chosen that we know as Gentiles (113-14). Fruchtenbaum outlines four reasons for Israel's election: 1) they were "chosen on the basis of God's love . . . to be 'a kingdom of priests and a holy nation' (Ex. 19:6) . . . to represent the Gentile nations before God." 2) "God chose Israel to be the recipient of His revelation and to record it (Deut. 4:5-8; 6:6-9; Rom. 3:1-2)." 3) Israel "was to propagate the doctrine of the One God (Deut. 6:4)." 4) Israel "was to produce the Messiah (Rom. 9:5; Heb. 2:16-17; 7:13-14) (115)."
No biblically oriented christian would deny these purposes relating to Israel. The differences begins to emerge when we consider Israel in relation to the church. "Some theologians insist," notes Fruchtenbaum "that at some point the church receives the promises given to Israel and thus become the 'New Israel' (known as replacement theology). Some believe the terms church and Israel are used virtually 'interchangeably,' most citing Galatians 6:16 and some Romans 9:6." (116).
However, those commonly known as dispensationalists interpret the Bible literally and thus do not confuse the terms Israel and the church, since there is no basis in the text of any biblical passage for supporting such an approach.
Having noted important aspects of the biblical use of Israel, I will now examine the nature of the church.
The Church
Six reasons are given by Fruchtenbaum from the Bible supporting the notion that the church is a distinct work in God's household from His people Israel.
1) "The first evidence is the fact that the church was born at Pentecost, whereas Israel had existed for many centuries" (116). This is supported by "the use of the future tense in Matthew 16:18 shows that it did not exist in gospel history" (116). Since the church born at Pentecost is called the "Body of Christ" (Col. 1:18), and entrance into the body is through "Spirit baptism" (1 Cor. 12:13), in which Jew and Gentile are united through the church. It is evident that the church began on the Day of Pentecost since Acts 1:5 views Spirit baptism as future, while Acts 10 links it to the past, specifically to Pentecost.
2) "The second evidence is that certain events in the ministry of the Messiah were essential to the establishment of the church-the church does not come into being until certain events have taken place" (117). These events include the resurrection and ascension of Jesus to become head of the church (Eph. 1:20-23). "The church, with believers as the body and Christ as the head, did not exist until after Christ ascended to become its head. And it could not become a functioning entity until after the Holy Spirit provided the necessary spiritual gifts (Eph. 4:7-11)" (117).
3) "The third evidence is the mystery character of the church (117)." A mystery in the Bible is a hidden truth not revealed until the New Testament (Eph. 3:3-5, 9; Col. 1:26-27). Fruchtenbaum lists "four defining characteristics of the church [that] are described as a mystery. (1) The body concept of Jewish and Gentile believers united into one body is designated as a mystery in Ephesians 3:1-12. (2) The doctrine of Christ indwelling every believer, the Christ-in-you concept, is called a mystery in Colossians 1:24-27 (cf. Col. 2:10-19; 3:4). (3) The church as the Bride of Christ is called a mystery in Ephesians 5:22-32. (4) The Rapture is called a mystery in 1 Corinthians 15:50-58. These four mysteries describe qualities that distinguish the church from Israel" (117-18).
4) "The fourth evidence that the church is distinct from Israel is the unique relationship between Jews and the Gentiles, called one new man in Ephesians 2:15" (118). During the current church age God is saving a remnant from the two previous entities (Israel and Gentiles) and combining them into a third new object-the church. This unity of Jews and Gentiles into one new man covers only the church age, from Pentecost until the rapture, after which time God will restore Israel and complete her destiny (Acts 15:14-18). 1 Corinthians 10:32 reflects just such a division when it says, "Give no offense either to Jews or to Greeks or to the church of God."
5) "The fifth evidence for the distinction between Israel and the church is found in Galatians 6:16" (118). "It appears logical to view 'the Israel of God' (Gal. 6:16) as believing Jews in contrast to unbelieving Jews called 'Israel after the flesh' (1 Cor. 10:18)" (124).2 This passage does not support the false claim of replacement theologians who claim that Israel is supplanted by the Church. Instead, the Bible teaches that a remnant of Israel is combined with elect Gentiles during this age to make up a whole new entity the New Testament calls the church (Eph. 2).
Replacement theology tries to teach that because Gentiles believers are described as the "seed of Abraham" (Gal. 3:29) that this is equivalent to saying that they are Israel. This is clearly not the case. Paul's description of Gentile believers in Galatians 3:29 simply means that they participate in the spiritual (i.e., salvation) blessings that come through Israel (Rom. 15:27; 1 Cor. 9:11, 14). "Those who are the spiritual seed are partakers of Jewish spiritual blessings but are never said to become partakers of the physical, material, or national promises" (126). Therefore, Israel's national promises are left in tact awaiting a yet future fulfillment.
6) "In the book of Acts, both Israel and the church exist simultaneously. The term Israel is used twenty times and ekklesia (church) nineteen times, yet the two groups are always kept distinct" (118).3 Thus, the replacement theologian has no actual biblical basis upon which he bases his theological claim that Israel and the church have become one.
The Significance of the Distinction
If Israel and the church are not distinguished then there is no basis for seeing a future for Israel or for the church, as a new and unique people of God. If Israel and the church are merged into a single program, then the Old Testament promises for Israel will never be fulfilled and are usually seen by replacement theologians as spiritually fulfilled by the church. The merging of Israel's destiny into the church not only makes into one what the Scriptures understand as two, it removes a need for future restoration of God's original elect people in order to fulfill literally His promise that they will one day be the head and not the tail (Deut. 28:13).
The more that the believer sees a distinct plan for Israel and a distinct plan for the church, the more they realize that when the New Testament speaks to the church it is describing a separate destiny and hope for her. The church becomes more distinct in the plan of God. Israel's future includes the seven-year tribulation and then shortly before Christ's return to Jerusalem she will be converted to Jesus as her Messiah as the veil is removed and then she looks upon the one Who was pierced and is converted. On the other hand, the distinct hope (the rapture before the 70th week of Daniel) for the church is Christ's any-moment return.
Thus, a distinction between Israel and the church, as taught in the Bible, provides a basis of support for the pre-trib rapture. Those who merge the two programs cannot logically support the biblical arguments for the pre-trib position.
ENDNOTES
1 Fruchtenbaum, "Israel and the Church" in Wesley Willis, John Master, and Charles Ryrie, ed., Issues in Dispensationalism (Chicago: Moody Press, 1994), 129. This article by Fruchtenbaum is a highly regarded defense of the Bible's distinction between Israel and the church and should be read by all interacting with this subject. The remaining citations of Fruchtenbaum's article will appear in brackets after a quotation in the rest of this essay.
2 For an extensive and convincing treatment of Galatians 6:16 see Fruchtenbaum's article, 120-26.
3 Fruchtenbaum lists all 73 times Israel is used in the New Testament and demonstrates that Israel always is used to refer to ethnic Jews and never is used of the church (118-20). For an exhaustive and definitive study of the word for church and how it is never merged with Israel in the New Testament, see Earl Radmacher, What the Church is All About (Chicago: Moody Press, 1972), 366-84, 389-93.
By Thomas Ice, PhD.
Quasar92
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There is only one way to make the statement above work.
You must ignore the fact that the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34 is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and is specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:22-24, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8.
Cut those passages out of your Bible and maybe you can convince yourself that the Two Peoples of God doctrine is "biblical".
As for the rest of us, it is not going to happen.
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Dr. Ice has never identified for us who Israel is. Here's some assistance:
Abraham lineage
DNA Tests Could Fulfill God’s Promise to Abraham by Revealing Millions of Jews. But How Jewish is Jewish Enough?
Israel in all of Us? Research finds 'Jewish genes' in unusual places
Genetically, the entire human race on planet earth. How does God distinguish and identify His Own Israel?
The same way He always, and only ever, has -- by their faith and obedience.
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Your views were thoroughly refuted in my last post and I will not continue to repeat it because you are impervious to why your views are wrong. As I previously explained to you:
>>>The teachings documented in the Bible clearly refute the teachings of Covenant; New Covenant and Reformed Covenant theology; for attempting to make Israel and the Church one entity. Which they are distinctively not. What you fail to comprehend, is the Scriptural facts that your belief system [the fulfillment of the New Covenant in Israel and Judah] will not take place until AFTER Jesus second coming and the establishment of His Millennial kingdom here on earth, as I previously posted.<<<
The New Covenant was fulfilled by Jesus, as recorded in Lk.22:20. Which in turn was accepted by Gentiles and a few Jews of Israel which together with the arrival of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, was the beginning and foundation of the Church - NOT of Israel!
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Pam, I went to your site, and you make an interesting theory that the bride in Revelation 19 is the tribulation saints. But in your theory limits the tribulation saints to just Jews.
Two counters to that theory is in Christ there is neither Jew nor Gentile.
Also there will be mulitudes from other nations, tribes, peoples, becoming Christians during the great tribulation.
Revelation 7:
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
I think your theory would have more viability, if you said not just the church, but also plus the tribulation saints - as being the bride of Christ.
The difference between tribulation saints and the church, the church would be the believers taken up in the rapture/resurrection - not having to go through the great tribulation.
The tribulation saints would be them martyred and them who survive the great tribulation - from all nations, peoples, tribes, kindreds, tongues - who have accepted Jesus.
Together with the church make up the bride of Christ.
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